Quantcast

The Army's new Squad Automatic Rifle will be Chambered in .270 Win. ...ish.

Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by Garandimal, Feb 1, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Garandimal

    Garandimal Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2017
    Messages:
    1,276
    Location:
    Lee of Death Valley, ...where Tigers feed.
    The Next Generation Squad Weapon-Rifle (NGSW-R)
    and the Next Generation Squad Weapon-Automatic Rifle (NGSW-AR),
    will both be chambered in the Army’s new specification general purpose 6.8mm round.​


    “The 6.8mm caliber projectile cannot change. A 6.8mm caliber is large enough to
    achieve Government’s required outcomes whereas a 6.5mm caliber cannot.”


    .270 Winchester.
    Welcome to the club.

    :D




    GR



     
  2. LoonWulf
    • Contributing Member

    LoonWulf Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2010
    Messages:
    8,301
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Be interesting to see how that works out!
     
    Jinx0760 and troy fairweather like this.
  3. mustanger98

    mustanger98 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2004
    Messages:
    3,559
    Location:
    GA, CSA
    I think it was .270Win and .276Pedersen both... back in the '20's they said something about no military value.

    If a 6.5 can't do it... and the Japs and Swedes both had 6.5's... whatever made 'em think 5.56 was such a great idea?
     
    robhof, tark, MikeInOr and 1 other person like this.
  4. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2006
    Messages:
    5,952
    Location:
    Morgan County, Alabama
    Well, they're talking SQUAD AUTOMATIC RIFLE here and the 5.56 mm. was for a standard ol' rifle. ;)
     
    qwert65 likes this.
  5. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    4,895
    Location:
    Minnesota
    I'm pretty skeptical that this requirement of a 135 grain projectile at 3000 fps is going to make it through trials. I have a feeling they are going to back off on that a bit.
     
    CoalTrain49 and Bfh_auto like this.
  6. someguy2800

    someguy2800 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2015
    Messages:
    4,895
    Location:
    Minnesota
    The M14 taught us that what you want and what is practical to use in a full automatic rifle are two different things.
     
  7. horsey300

    horsey300 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2016
    Messages:
    1,720
    Location:
    Wyobraska
    .270 wsm, it'll get a makeover I'm sure, but when the outcome hits, that's what we'll be looking at, short and feisty.
     
    LoonWulf and js8588 like this.
  8. Laphroaig

    Laphroaig Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2013
    Messages:
    1,309
    Location:
    W. PA
    I wonder what the "required outcomes" are?
     
    LoonWulf likes this.
  9. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    4,569
    Location:
    Fl panhandle
    6.8, 6.5 CM, a 45 ACP handgun, the XM8, 408 Cheytac, etc.- all examples of things "the military is going to", according to the internet. Don't hold your breath. When I worked in R&D, we found these articles especially entertaining.
     
    db_tanker, robhof, Orcon and 8 others like this.
  10. RedlegRick

    RedlegRick Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    612
    I foresee 5.56, 7.62 NATO and 9mm Para to remain in US inventory for a very long time. Far too much invested in legacy platforms, parts, and stockpiles in my opinion.
     
    Jeff H, robhof, NIGHTLORD40K and 3 others like this.
  11. 25-20 WCF

    25-20 WCF Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2009
    Messages:
    196
    Location:
    Arizona
    Yep, that’s what they said about the .30-06 and the .45 Auto too.....ane yet here we are.
     
  12. RedlegRick

    RedlegRick Member

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2017
    Messages:
    612
    I didn't say forever. Eventually Uncle Sugar will decide to revamp things, but unless something major happens, we'll be seeing the same stuff for awhile.
     
    LoonWulf likes this.
  13. Browning

    Browning Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2007
    Messages:
    2,522
    Location:
    DFW - TX
    I'll believe it when I hear they've actually made the switch.
     
    robhof and LoonWulf like this.
  14. wanderinwalker

    wanderinwalker Member

    Joined:
    Jan 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,213
    Location:
    SW NH
    I just don't see it happening. It looks good on paper, but wait until reality sets in. By reality, I mean recoil, muzzle blast, cost, platform size, weight, wear on equipment, etc.

    This thing is going to kick at least as hard as the 7.62 NATO and .30-06 of days of yore. And realistically, those guns were at the limit of what our grandfathers and great-grandfathers could use. With many people today thinking the 5.56 NATO "kicks", something in the power class of what the Army's "new" 6.8mm cartridge is promising isn't going to improve marksmanship by any stretch.

    <- a 35 year old Millenial who hasn't served in the military, but is a former competitive shooter and sees the effects of recoil on average shooters every time I visit the range.
     
    robhof, LoonWulf, Scooter22 and 3 others like this.
  15. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2006
    Messages:
    9,532
    Location:
    Alabama
    Unless the SecDef forces it down the user's throat, Baby will puke it back up. Baby likes what it has, and will have no other.
     
    robhof, boom boom and LoonWulf like this.
  16. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    4,032
    Location:
    Somewhere in WA.
    Hornady doesn't list a 135 gr bullet and max loads for the 130 gr are around 2300 fps. I know they don't wring every bit of performance from a cartridge for liability reasons but that's a pretty big gap from 2300 to 3000 fps. A more realistic bullet would be 120 gr and MV around 2500 fps. which would be just fine for a 500 meter engagement. That's still going to be a huge improvement over the 5.56.

    My guess they set those requirements very high in order get designers to think that someone has actually produced such a 6.8 mm cartridge that can do that and they need to do better. The 6.8 SPC was actually a cartridge developed for the military with their input so I'm thinking the military already knows they aren't going to get 3000 fps out of that cartridge.

    The 270 WSM is a bolt rifle cartridge as most of those mags are. Those short fat cases with flat shoulders don't work real well in automatic weapons.

    I wish they would hurry up with this project so I can build a rifle. Once the 6.8 SPC gets adopted by the military the brass will be like 5.56 brass, laying around waiting for you to pick it up.

    I might just get started on a 6.8 SPC rifle and avoid the rush. I like the cartridge, should work well with a 20" barrel.:D
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
    robhof and LoonWulf like this.
  17. CoalTrain49

    CoalTrain49 Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2014
    Messages:
    4,032
    Location:
    Somewhere in WA.
    I think the 5.56 has been around in the military about 50 years. The 06 was also for about the same time and the 7.62 even longer. So 50 years seems to be about the useful life of a military cartridge. My guess is the military is pretty close to a new cartridge for SAW and carbine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2019
    LoonWulf likes this.
  18. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,997
    Location:
    South Western, OK
    The 6.8mm SPC round was developed in conjunction with the US Army. The cartridge is a shortened and necked down .30 Remington.

    A friend had a Remington 700 Varmint rifle in 6.8mm SPC caliber. After reloading some 6.8 SPC cartridges i know one thing for sure. The US military will not be getting velocities any near 3,000 fps with a 135 grain bullet. Best velocities we were able to obtain with 115 grain bullets were 2,550 fps.

    https://load-data.nosler.com/load-data/68-remington-spc/
     
  19. 30Cal

    30Cal Member

    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2004
    Messages:
    2,350
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Better order a lot of extra barrels with that.
     
    maxxhavoc, LoonWulf and Bfh_auto like this.
  20. Goosey

    Goosey Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    305

    That sounds like nonsense to me, unless there's some method of construction which a slightly larger diameter facilitates. Which I doubt.

    I always see people push the 6.5 for military purposes. But the usual 6.5 advantages make no difference to the military. They don't have to buy commercial bullets or barrels and can design and decide their own bullets and twist rates from the ground up.​
     
  21. alsaqr

    alsaqr Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2007
    Messages:
    3,997
    Location:
    South Western, OK
    Cartridge is apparently not the 6.8mm SPC. The US Army wants something 20 percent lighter.
     
  22. SharpDog

    SharpDog Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2006
    Messages:
    1,700
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Money in the right pockets I expect.

    What I enjoy most is the notion that if it has the same chamber pressure as a tank round, it's as powerful as a tank round. This notion comes up (in the media) repeatedly in these discussions o_O
     
    Laphroaig likes this.
  23. jamesinalaska

    jamesinalaska Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Messages:
    162
    Or the government could just train their squad's riflemen to shoot two rounds of 75 gr. ammunition and have an eqivalent of 150 grains at 2750 feet per second.
     
    robhof likes this.
  24. Texas10mm

    Texas10mm Member

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,743
    7.62x51 had a pretty short service life in rifles.

    A 135 gr bullet at 3100 fps is going to have a pretty high operating pressure. I'd guess in the 85-90k psi range.
     
  25. Bfh_auto

    Bfh_auto Member

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2016
    Messages:
    2,034
    Location:
    Oklahoma
    I've been reading things like this since I was in grade school.
    What is essentially a 270 wsm in an automatic weapon would be insane.
     
    Nature Boy and BigBlue 94 like this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice