the authority for search and seizure

[spacemanspiff]

I was reflecting last night about my first job out of high school, i worked in sales for Nordstrom. Yeah it sucked, but there was a lot of hotties working there and the pay was consistent whether or not you did any real work.

The sales staff worked with Loss Prevention, a fancy phrase for undercover "detectives" walking about the store looking for shoplifters. They were empowered with the authority to confront any shopper and pose as a manager, sales clerk, etc. But this also apparently gave them authority to search personal effects. So here is my question:

How legal is it for a non-LEO to search your person, or your belongings?

Personally, i wouldnt let any non-LEO search me or my belongings, not because i have anything to hide, but its the principle. Of course, if there were signs stating that any who enter are subject to search and seizure i would think twice about entering such a place.

Would you allow a store dick to search you or you belongings?

 

[HS/LD]

I refuse to consent to any search whatsoever. As such, I do not
consent to a search of my premises, my person, my immediate location
or any vehicle or affects. I hereby exercise my rights as enumerated
by the Fourth, Fifth, Sixth, Ninth, and Fourteenth Amendments to the
United States Constitution.


Thats what I would say to an LEO.

Here is what I would say to a non-LEO.

FU OFF!

HS/LD

 

[Drjones]

Depends on the circumstance. I have no problem opening my bag for inspection upon leaving the store.

If some wannabe-JBT came up and demanded or asked to search me, I'm not sure quite how I'd say it, but it would be a clear "NO."

If one or more (ESP. more than one) actually tried to detain me, I might take that as a threat on my life and act accordingly.

Unless I see a badge and a gun on your hip, you don't get to play cops n robbers with me.

 

[spacemanspiff]

some 'detectives' would approach the person suspected and nine times out of ten the suspect would start blabbering nervously while the undercover agent would peer into their bag and say 'hey do you have a receipt for this? you dont want to walk out of here with this unpaid for item, do you?'
as i look back at this, i realize that at the time i didnt care one way or another about Rights, and figured anyone suspected of stealing deserved it. the situation is different when its not a 'suspect' but a 'confirmed' thief. you see it with your own eyes and theres no question about 'rights'.

one employee feigned passing out when she saw the loss prevention agents approaching her, she knew she was caught stealing and giving customers more than they paid for.


some days i really miss working there. get sick of customers and just go into the storage area and take a nap. let your coworkers get all the sales while you snooze in the endless racks of merch.

 

[El Tejon]

space, most states have "Shopkeeper statutes" which allow owners to merchants to detain individuals suspected of theft/criminal conversion. Check local listings for details of Alaska's.

As far as searching you, if you consent, don't see a problem. If she's cute, I'm all for it.

 

[Preacherman]

Sounds like the perfect time for "I'll show you mine if you'll show me yours..."

 

[GregoryTech]

Store owners (and agents thereof) usually must have sufficient probable cause to detain you, (like they actually SAW you hiding merchandise and leaving). Otherwise they're subject to damages caused by an illegal detention. As an armed man, I would NEVER allow myself to be searched by a store employee. If confronted I would ask for a police officer for the search and then politely, quiety, and patiently wait for him. As I am not a shoplifter, I will have a GREAT case for illegal detention when the search nets nothing.

I never stop for door nazi's either. What possible probable cause can they have with me holding a bag with THEIR store name on it, and me coming directly from the cash register. I resent the approach: "Hey, prove you're not a criminal and didn't shoplift before you leave." I ignore them and walk on by, or say "I didn't steal anything" and never break my stride.

 

[GregoryTech]

Of course, if there were signs stating that any who enter are subject to search and seizure i would think twice about entering such a place

I wouldn't enter a place that had signs saying I was subject to a bloody beating either, but putting the signs up doesn't make it legal!

I refuse to be searched unless for probable cause, and then I'll cooperate fully.