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The "Black Coats" are Coming!!!

Is a revolution on the horizon?

  • Yes, history has not left us blind to the future.

    Votes: 94 47.0%

  • No, there is still hope through the system.

    Votes: 64 32.0%

  • Undecided.

    Votes: 42 21.0%
  • Total voters
    200
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NIGHTWATCH said:
No politician, I dont care who it is, is committed to restoring the constitution, or able to by way of the machine. If its the RKBA, speech, exported labor, tax reform, immigration and our ever expanding government.
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I just got done listening to the Libertarian Debates. All three of them claims that they would restore the constitution.

Trouble is,
1) We got the Democrats. None of them pay taxes, so they don't care about taxes. They like the welfare system.

2) We got the republicans. They are so worried that the Democrats will make big govt., take our guns and raise taxes, that they are willing to elect a republican who will make big govt., take our guns (only slower) and raise taxes. I call them the lesser of two evil doers.

3) We got the govt. employees. Many of you out there are. Even Perot, back in '92 said that 45% of our workers work for some kind of govt. (Federal, State, County, Municipal, or Quasi, (education)). It is not to their benefit to reduce the size or power of govt.

4) We got the soccer moms. I am not a soccer mom so I truly cannot understand their thought process. I only know they think guns are bad and thus favor prior restraint, even if it is antiethical to freedom. They will vote against freedom.

So whose left? Maybe 10% of the people. They will whine and complain and post to THR until they finally give up.

No, there won't be a revolution.

Yes, the Libertarians will grow, but before they reach a majority, the country will collapse like the USSR.

After the collapse, all the govt. workers who now no longer collect their pensions, health care, bennies, etc, will recognize that they have to work for a living.

The Democrat welfare collectors will get pretty hungry when the nanny state doesn't send their checks.

The republicans will have figured out that they have been hornswaggled.

The soccer moms will be LIVING in their high capacity assualt suv's and be more worried about survival than what's good "For the children".

Maybe then, we will get a reformation, not a revolution.
 
Curious how some folks around here take general obsevations personally............and then when they find them objectionable recommend the observer not paticipate in the thread because they diagree with the obsevation. It's like....." it's ok to post as long as I can't see my reflection in your words."
Some need to take their own advice....."settle down, Francis...if you don't like the discussion ingnore it....after all this is the High Road "!........................
Couldn't agree more
 
Hooray for petty squabbling.:rolleyes:


I dont think we will have a revolution, wether we need one or not. Like many before have posted, the blissninnys are too happy sit on their duffs as long as they are happy in their little worlds. Too many people exsist only in their "little worlds" and dont pause to take a look out the window, so to speak. Too few people educate themselves about the ideals the country was founded upon and the direction the country is going, and instead just accepts the line that someone parrots at them. That is why we will be the ones going down quietly at the hands of our government someday, going down in a hail of bullets loudly and getting nothing worthwhile accomplished, or going down at our own hands because we cant take it anymore and no one is paying attention to the real world and its simply not worth saving anymore.

Sad, really.:(
 
Guys, I hate to tell you this but the revolution already took place. Those of us who consider ourselves to be traditional federalists (paleofederalists) are dying off.
 
Hooray for petty squabbling
Click to expand...
Indeed.

Anyhow, I agree to a certain point, Mike.
But I think there will be mass civil unrest when things like cable and SUVs aren't so easily available to keep the masses pacified. I think it's only a matter of time until places like SF fall in on themselves. The peaceful protestors are finding themselves ignored and excluded and they aren't
really quite right in the head, a lot of them.
I think CA is especially ripe for trouble. Hopefully the economy turns arond soon. But I don't think it will.
A lot of people are closer and closer to losing everything.
I think it's gonna get worse before it gets better.
 
Diamondback, I think you could have been a bit more careful in your phrasing. Such stuff as "many of you who favor a violent revolution" seems to me to be an inaccurate presumption, insofar as "favor" is concerned. "Many"? Nope.

I think there could be no actual revolution until "just folks" go to worrying about federal insults to the rule of law such that their daily lives are noticeably affected. I think the key word is "noticeably". If and when such a state comes to pass, some sort of leadership will arise to make some effort to restore lost rights. The odds of success? Quien sabe?

I'm another who believes that the Great Soporific with its oh-so-many cable channels will provide enough soporific that no real action could occur for a very long time.

Art
 
But I think there will be mass civil unrest when things like cable and SUVs aren't so easily available to keep the masses pacified.
Click to expand...
But the problem is that the people will not be "revolting" because of the rape of the Constitution, it will be because they cant see the reruns of Friends or the latest installment of American Idol.:barf: :fire:

It is truely sickening.
 
No.

The day of the Patriot has passed. There may be those who would revolt but they would not have the backing of the common man. With the propaganda machine of the government, and a willing press, those who would revolt would be painted as wild-eyed crazies by the likes of Morris Dees.

Hell, I put the word out on a board filled with 11,000+ "patriots" to leaflet at airports for the arming of pilots and got six people who were willing to do it. The rest were too busy, too scared, or too involved with "Married With Children" reruns to take a single afternoon on a weekend to petition their government for redress of grievances on an issue we bitch and moan about every day.

No, read the excellent tome "A Nation of Cowards" if you want to see the future of this country, as it exists today, if nothing changes.
 
Hey guys,

Yeah I know some of our governments actions are disheartening, but I am noticing positive peacefull changes. "If voting changed anything it would be illegal" isn't true. Several states have just passed laws partially restoring their right to carry. Even here in PRMA it looks like the legislature will pass a pro-gun bill making things a little easier for gunowners. http://www.goal.org/Alerts/mayreform.html
As someone said before, Things didn't get this bad in a day and they won't be fixed in a day either. If you're feeling frustrated, do some exercise or yoga or put some holes in paper. :)
 
" ........all fundamentalists desire to make over a culture and it's society. and ultimately every individual to reflect their own personal perceptions. Those who lean to the right, or for that matter to the left see the opposition as adversary all the while mistaking their private perceptions for the essential and universal . By hook or by crook, by orderly evolution or by vigorous seizures and spasms, the primary aim of the fundamentalist is to 'impose' and 'deny'......and when they christen their cause under the banner of freedom be greatly concerned."
---Lucius James Holcomb
 
revolution

\Rev`o*lu"tion\, n. [F. r['e]volution, L. revolutio. See Revolve.] 1. The act of revolving, or turning round on an axis or a center; the motion of a body round a fixed point or line; rotation; as, the revolution of a wheel, of a top, of the earth on its axis, etc.

2. Return to a point before occupied, or to a point relatively the same; a rolling back; return; as, revolution in an ellipse or spiral.

That fear Comes thundering back, with dreadful revolution, On my defenseless head. --Milton.

3. The space measured by the regular return of a revolving body; the period made by the regular recurrence of a measure of time, or by a succession of similar events. ``The short revolution of a day.'' --Dryden.

4. (Astron.) The motion of any body, as a planet or satellite, in a curved line or orbit, until it returns to the same point again, or to a point relatively the same; -- designated as the annual, anomalistic, nodical, sidereal, or tropical revolution, according as the point of return or completion has a fixed relation to the year, the anomaly, the nodes, the stars, or the tropics; as, the revolution of the earth about the sun; the revolution of the moon about the earth.

Note: The term is sometimes applied in astronomy to the motion of a single body, as a planet, about its own axis, but this motion is usually called rotation.

5. (Geom.) The motion of a point, line, or surface about a point or line as its center or axis, in such a manner that a moving point generates a curve, a moving line a surface (called a surface of revolution), and a moving surface a solid (called a solid of revolution); as, the revolution of a right-angled triangle about one of its sides generates a cone; the revolution of a semicircle about the diameter generates a sphere.

6. A total or radical change; as, a revolution in one's circumstances or way of living.

The ability . . . of the great philosopher speedily produced a complete revolution throughout the department. --Macaulay.

7. (Politics) A fundamental change in political organization, or in a government or constitution; the overthrow or renunciation of one government, and the substitution of another, by the governed.

The violence of revolutions is generally proportioned to the degree of the maladministration which has produced them. --Macaulay.

Note: When used without qualifying terms, the word is often applied specifically, by way of eminence, to: (a) The English Revolution in 1689, when William of Orange and Mary became the reigning sovereigns, in place of James II. (b) The American Revolution, beginning in 1775, by which the English colonies, since known as the United States, secured their independence. (c) The revolution in France in 1789, commonly called the French Revolution, the subsequent revolutions in that country being designated by their dates, as the Revolution of 1830, of 1848, etc.


Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.


revolution

n 1: a drastic and far-reaching change in ways of thinking and behaving; "the industrial revolution was also a cultural revolution" 2: the overthrow of a government by those who are governed 3: a complete turn; "the plane made three rotations before it crashed" [syn: rotation, gyration, roll]


Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University


The "revolution" has already begun. You can argue whether it began in the late 30's under FDR or in the 60's under LBJ. Makes no difference, as it is steadily progressing. The other side's primary weapon (tool) is not the force of arms, but rather the dilution and corruption of the American culture. They are succeeding by steadily imposing statism, multiculturalism, victimization and other forms of "political correctness" on the population at large. Their ideology has captured the schools, the courthouses, city councils and state governments everywhere. We are like frogs in a pot of water over a fire who do not know the temperature is slowly rising. For this reason I believe recognizable and undeniable tyranny is inevitable.

Armed insurrection? By whom? When? What is the 'line in the sand'? If it is to come, it may well be over confiscation of arms, the same thing that triggered our first Revolutionary War before the 2nd Amendment was even written. It is impossible to know how much oppression will come before then or what form it may take, but that would be my 'line in the sand.' I will not voluntarily surrender ANY firearms regardless of what frivolous laws may be passed in the future.
 
On this specific issue I too can agree............I would have to seriously consider all remedies to the tyranny of gun confiscation. I may choose my words indiscriminately sometimes and be guilty of "petty squabbling" on occassion, but I stand firm in opposition to those who would outlaw private ownership of firearms.
-Diamondback
 
I think one of the best ways to 'halt the assalt'(on our rights as Free Citizens) is to teach new shooters. I know I would be lost at sea without this forum. If a revolution were to happen every person you helped with thier first gun or explained the laws to is a potental pariot that can fight for the constition.

There may be a revolution but I think it will happen after a collapse. Look at the world from high above: Rising oil costs, terrorists, invasive governments and flocks of sheeple that call out for prior restraint for all sorts of things. Its not just guns but everything we do, see, think or feel - everything that makes life worth living or a war worth fighting.

At some point there will be a limit and one of a few things may happen:

1) Riots break out and spread - governemnt enacts martal law nationaly - we revolt(no other option)

2) Heavy subsidation and heavy taxaction keep sheeple happy but put the cost of feeding welfare cases on the peoples backs - we take it as it is not life and death(yet)

3) Some other things or a mix of the above

So the question is - how will the people in power react? If the sheeple riot or terrorists attack on a large scale then martial law will probibly be enacted(or something with the same effect) and people will probibly revolt and go into hiding, form groups ext

Or a slow build up will happen and we will no longer be free but slaves to the state but unable to do anything about it. Once a generation turns over and people are born into slavery then all hope is lost as no one will remember what it was like to be free.

If you like the idea of open, violent revolt and the possiblity of Freedom better than slavery but safty and comfort then in a way all our hope rests on the avarage Joe that is wathing the late show right now...
 
I fight a revolution every day. It will be won or lost exactly one person at a time.

It is called making gun ownership "normal."

It begins by talking to people I meet, at work, in social settings, at church. If the question ever comes up, (and I make sure it eventually does), "Do you have any hobbies?" I do not hide mine.

If I get a positive reaction, I offer to take them shooting. If I get a negative reaction, I offer to show them there is nothing to fear from shooting a gun, or from me more importantly, and do so on my dime at the range. I then preach to the choir in the former circumstance about the importance of at least voting RKBA and to think about getting new shooters involved. With the latter, even if I don't convince them to become single issue voters, I try and leave them with the notion that responsible gun ownership should be encouraged and criminal gun ownership effectively fought with well-written laws, not ones that would punish a group of innocent people for the misdeeds of others.

My theory is that push come to shove, people have politics that are all over the spectrum anyways, but if they are mostly armed, especially with handguns, the chances of them being banned become far more remote. Besides good gun owners are the exemplar of personal responsibility and that can't be a bad notion to spread.

Gays became "mainstream" by refusing to hide. Gun ownership was once mainstream, but a highly effective campaign from the left demonized gun ownership over time. Becoming "hip" is going to take a lot of effort, but it can be done. One person at a time. We won't get there by fantasizing about shooting people we can instead convert.
 
Revolution? No.

Revolts? Most certainly.

We are divided as the media tells us oh so often. But once again they get part of the story. We are divided more ways than anyone wants to consider. We are divided along geographic lines, sociologic lines, ethnic lines, racial lines, political lines. We are all to one extent or the other tired of having rules, regulations, laws, conventions, and norms jammed down our throats. We are all sick to death of predatory government and non-governmental organizations with governmental power ruling it over us.

The one factor that holds the entire mess together is the appearance of and general acceptance of the appearance that our elections are somewhat legitimate. If that legitimacy should ever be tarnished, look out. We hold to the belief that we have the right of redress through elections though that has now been limited via the Campaign finance control act. If we as a society conclude our elections are no longer legitimate then it is Katie Bar the Door. And that dear reader is the huge danger we face in the 2004 elections. What with motor voter registration, illegal immigration, both parties sucking up illegal immigrations and enabling groups, the promise of voter fraud by both political parties, computerization of voting with no traceability or hard copies, and the influx of foreign money at an astounding rate; I think we may well be witnessing the last legitimate election in the US.

Where the revolt occur? Geographically--the west because of water rights and shortages. Two more bad winters and you people are screwed. Judicially--keep it up courts. Technology--massive voter fraud enabled by computer crimes created by politicians. Illegal Immigration--shooting war breaks out in Cochise County AZ. Sociologically--a city goes into bankruptcy because of the cost of welfare for illegals. Politically--Al Qaeda suceeds in a WMD attack by coming across the border.

Any one of the localized events could break out in unpleasantness. And just like all unpleasantness everywhere and every time; most people want it to go away. I guess by some definitions, they are the sheep.
 
Good Discussion.

I have used the term , re-awakening.

Folks mosey along not getting involved with anything , until something they cherish becomes affected. Folks have become apathetic ( as jimpeel pointed out in regard to arming pilots) and complacent...(was going to run cable to the other bedroom...put if off, now the person is sick, recovering and messing with my remote in the living room).

Folks use escape as a coping mechanism - reality is well - REAL.

Art, jimpeel, others...I cannot find it, to reference it, there is a model of how "goverments" go through phases. A "life cycle" if you will. From conception to death. No offense to the folks older, but as one ages the body just can't do some things it once did. Digestive system, muscular, neuro...well it is said the human body is not fully devloped until ~ 18. From ~age 18 to 36 the body is at its "peak" , all systems running efficiently. Human body starts to be less efficient as one ages.

This model I can't find parallels this with government. When something finally causes enough pain, becomes life threatening, knocks one one their knees, gets sick enough...they do something about - if they can , and it does not kill them first.
 
Yeah, sm, there are several writings on that sort of analysis.

I'm one who at least regards it as likely that the U.S. is on the downhill slide common to empires or hegemons. Not due to war, but due to the economic burden. Not a lot different from what happened to the British Empire, except that ours has been more directly one of trade than occupation. Note that economic issues clobbered both the Spanish and Soviet empires...

I ran across Pournelle's "There will be war, Vol. IX" and it includes a review of a book now on my to-read list: "The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers" by a Professor Paul Kennedy (1988).

Art
 
we're on our way out.

"Karl, John, Josef, Barbara, Diane, Teddy, Chucky, Hillary

Actually after so long, they all look the same to me."

Great observation, CCW.

But where's Adolph?

I can't see us arising and sweeping away a corrupt gov't. We are more likely to fall apart and become a few blocks of states and possibly making war on each other. I believe that non-white folks are in the majority now in Arid Zone and New Mexico. When enough south of the border folks move in to there, Texas and Kalif., they'll vote themselves out of the union.

Russia is back to being Russia and not the USSR anymore. Maybe we'll go back to be the 13 colonies. Then maybe we'll get on a sail boat and leave. Who knows.

We think of the economic oppression through taxation to keep the nanny state alive, but what happens when people are taxed out of everything? Jobs leave the country as they are doing now. There is nothing left to support the welfare state or its army. It looks like anarchy and chaos to me. Us oldsters may hope that it holds together long enough for us to die in a feather bed and then to hell with it. I used to think that until the grandkids started showing up. Now they are in school having their little brains systematically de-thinked.

Not a good picture.

I was watching some babe on C-SPAN a few years ago and she was blabbering away about getting gov't money to do this or that. She seemed to expect to always reach out and grab a mit full of money when ever she wanted it. Some one asked her what would happen when the people ran out of money. "They might want to pay the tax and keep these things going, but they have no more cash. What happens?"

I always wanted to ask a pie-in-the-sky person that same question. She said, "Then the rules change." And went right back to her dreams with out missing a beat.

What I learned from that is that these big spenders and rights grabbers, etc. have a gene in their cells that says, "Grab all you can get before the collapse."

Remember, there were people actually jockeying for position in the Bunker in 1945 trying to be the leader of the Nazi Gov't that had about a week to live.

The only way to save it is to actually educate the masses. Then, when they can think and when they understand the concept of liberty and the rule of law and individual rights, they will roll things back.

Right.

The reason nations get old and die is that the individuals in that nation forget how it works and start living on the system. Sortta like burning the planks to fire the ship's boilers. The ship makes better speed as it gets lighter and it sure looks like we're making progress until the structure collapses.

Revolution and all it's disruption gets people to think about what they should have in a government and they, hopefully, strive to set up that government. We did 200 years ago. We'll have to do it again after the collapse and resurrection.

It is technically easier to go through the collapse and resurrection thing than to educate the masses along any pro liberty line. Too many in our own congress and in our society in general have a vested interest in the continuing decline of liberty and continuing ignorance of the masses to do it any other way, methinks.

"And they will cheer their own demise," a prof. I knew 40 years ago said about we Americans as we pass laws that undermine our own liberty and our own future. When you hear the Million Morons cheer gun control laws, think of that line.

rr
 
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