That sort of makes the point I was making. Is the 243 adequate for deer? The answer is it depends. Which 243 shooting which ammo on which deer at what range? Can you make it work on big deer? Sure within it's limitations. I know a guy who took at elk with one. Short range at the right angle. Do you want to take a 243 carbine out and try a shot on a 350 lb muley quartering away at 300 plus yards at dusk if you don't have to? Don't get me wrong here. I am NOT disparaging the 243. I love my carbine, but I am passing up that shot. That kind of stuff is NOT what I have a 243 for. Is it great for crossing up on coyotes and smaller deer/pronghorn/javelina at moderate ranges if you can make a reasonable shot? Sure and it's fun to shoot too.
The case for the .243 as a deer cartridge.
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That sort of makes the point I was making. Is the 243 adequate for deer? The answer is it depends. Which 243 shooting which ammo on which deer at what range? Can you make it work on big deer? Sure within it's limitations. I know a guy who took at elk with one. Short range at the right angle. Do you want to take a 243 carbine out and try a shot on a 350 lb muley quartering away at 300 plus yards at dusk if you don't have to? Don't get me wrong here. I am NOT disparaging the 243. I love my carbine, but I am passing up that shot. That kind of stuff is NOT what I have a 243 for. Is it great for crossing up on coyotes and smaller deer/pronghorn/javelina at moderate ranges if you can make a reasonable shot? Sure and it's fun to shoot too.
Agree. Besides, the sectional densities of a 243 100 grain bullet and a 150 grain 308 slug are barely different. If terminal effects were the same, I think we would be seeing a lot more 243 rifles out after elk and moose.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Another point to make. Here's where I put my own experience into perspective. Timing is everything. Let's say two hunters set out to shoot 10 deer each with matching .243's, using the same load. Let's say each has ONE deer where the bullet failed and necessitated a follow-up shot and/or a long tracking job. The hunter who had that failure on the first deer is going to have a very different perspective than the one whose failure was on the last deer. Even though the failure rate was exactly the same. I take lost animals and poor performing bullets very seriously. Most people, myself included, aren't going to give much of a chance if the first deer they shoot with a cartridge/bullet results in an utter failure. In the case of the .243, I just gave up on the cartridge. In the case of the .250Savage, I gave up on common cup & core bullets because I love the rifle. Had I shot that very first .243 deer with a Barnes, I might be singing a very different tune.
He was probably lucky on that 350 yard shot.
If your rifle would shoot the Barnes. Mine doesn't like them much. Likes the Nosler partition less.
Or it might have, and he would sing its praises even louder im sure......Part of my issue with personal experience, which is why I NOTE that Im simply speaking from mine, is that two people could do exactly the same thing, and have two different results.
I dont THINK a 350lb deer is twice as wide as a 150lb deer, and ive lunched 87gr sierras thru both side os our deer inside of 50yds. Those loads would have launched a little slow i think, didnt have a chrono then, but should still have been kicking out over 3000fps.
Ive also shot quite a few with 40-55gr .224 bullets at probably the same speeds. Those littler bullets rarely if ever exited, as they are "varmint" bullets, but everything hit died as if struck by lightning. Likewise, id bet a failure (which i dont remember happening but may have, and i just didnt know or dont remember), would have similarly spectacular, if opposite, results.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Two people can even have the same experience and perceive it completely differently. Seen a fair share of that too.
I think part of such shooting is luck or chance. Move the bullet impact over a smidge so the bullet hits more bone, and bingo, the bullet blows up on the surface. Too many variables. Darned animals can move around too much. Just a slight movement just as the trigger is touched and the whole outcome is changed. I have actually considered hunting deer with a 22-250 and have developed a big game load using a 50 grain Barnes TTSX. I don't really trust light varmint bullets travelling at high speed.
If you desire to get past opinion and look at some real research, just to here: https://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase.html
Select 'Wound Research' and pick the caliber that interests you. There are articles for six different bullets out of the 243.
Select 'Wound Research' and pick the caliber that interests you. There are articles for six different bullets out of the 243.
BigBlue 94
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Ive shot both my whitetail bucks with a 243. 75gr hornady HPBT at 3500 fps. One at maybe 100yds and one a touch closer. Most hunting in my neck of the woods is 200yds or closer. One was at a 'gallop' and took one to the spine, which exploded into indiscernible pieces. Jumped up and fell to the dirt. One took it through the lung and fell after a step and a half.
243 is great for whitetail deer, but not for every deer or situation, as pointed out. One must know the limitations of himself and his (or her) tools. You don't use a mallet to drive a nail. It may work, but not as well. And not working as well is unacceptable in any hunting situation, as it is not adequate for a clean kill. The hunter must choose the proper tool for the job. We owe it to the animal to take its life as humanely as possible. If I were to venture a couple hours west, where the ranges are 600yds or more, the 243 would stay in the safe. Could the 243 kill a deer at 800 yards? You bet. But I am not capable nor do I feel comfortable, with that shot at an animal. Target? Sure. But not with a high chance of just wounding an animal.
243 is great for whitetail deer, but not for every deer or situation, as pointed out. One must know the limitations of himself and his (or her) tools. You don't use a mallet to drive a nail. It may work, but not as well. And not working as well is unacceptable in any hunting situation, as it is not adequate for a clean kill. The hunter must choose the proper tool for the job. We owe it to the animal to take its life as humanely as possible. If I were to venture a couple hours west, where the ranges are 600yds or more, the 243 would stay in the safe. Could the 243 kill a deer at 800 yards? You bet. But I am not capable nor do I feel comfortable, with that shot at an animal. Target? Sure. But not with a high chance of just wounding an animal.
At 300-400 yds with that carbine and a 95 sst or btip? Sure, and if I'm going to be potentially shooting that far, that's the load I'm going with. Buddy has a 788 carbine and that's EXACTLY how we load it.
One of my criteria now is what can I use that will do what I want while punishing ME the least. I am old and recoil damage is real including retinal damage. The .243 is one caliber that will help avoid that especially if you couple it with a Limbsaver recoil pad, or a Pachmayr. I choose the lightest caliber I can get away with. I know hard kicking rifles are macho, but I got over that quite awhile back. I sometimes wonder if the 240 Weatherby magnum is the answer. It's supposed to be the real lightning in the 6mm bottle.
Aletheia
Member
Well, I can clearly see why I feel differently about the .243 as a deer round, because I wouldn't take that shot no matter what rifle I had in my hand at the time.
Hog huntin Harry
Member
I think we should all come to our senses and rebarrel our .243's and .308's for 7mm-08.
I did 6.5 creedmoor.....
For one of my .243s anyway
Did .250AI for the other, and the last is still .243, tho im considering getting a fast twist .22-250 or 6mm Creedmoor.
That .250AI would deliver 3000fps with 115s pretty easy, and top loads hit 3100.....kinda like to have another just in faster twist rate.
Good ethics. Unfortunately, there are plenty of people out there that would see that deer and light him up.
I don't EVER load Btips. Long range is not their problem. It's short range. They have a rightly deserved reputation for coming apart. I know because I tried one out...
Be careful a fast twist .22-250 running 62, 75 scirocco, 70 ab, or 88 eld will only make you want the .22-250 ai with same bullets!!!!
Out of your carbine?
Eta I'd also strongly suggest a good look at the prohunters.
shot and shoot a pile of those, again never had an issue except finding an expanded one on the off side of healed up deer.
shoulda said AI from the get go.....Im not doing a "standard" cartridge unless i have to.
While those articles are interesting, I know what exits and wound tracts I've personally examined, and if we get past the opinion of 350 lb deer being bullet proof, I know what a slurry of 6mm pills will do at many various impact velocities on quite a few different shot angles. We can include .22 cf on good sized muleys too if you like.
No, my failure was a 120 grain 6.5mm BT at 2900 fps. Target was a muley buck at 80 yds quartering away. I hit the back of the rib cage on the right side to angle forward into the chest and that bullet just flat blew up. Little bitty pieces. No penetration. Made a wound about four inches across and did bad things to the ribs under the impact point. Piece(s) of rib got the liver which is how I know what happened. After the BT first came out, there were a bunch of those stories circulating around. Add some range and it is supposed to be a winner. Accurate too. A 6mm BT moving a bit slower out of a carbine might be fine, but I am not buying a box to find out.
What I am playing with in the Mohawk 600 243 is the Sierra Game King 85 BTHP. The Ballistics Research guys say it's a winner. Little hollow point slows down expansion and allows the bullet to penetrate. I can drive them in the 2900 to 3000 fps range depending on the powder. Another supposedly good bullet is the Hornady 87 BTHP. I tried the 85 Partition and got great ballistic uniformity, but the darned things just don't want to group.
After the first generation back in the 80s, Nosler supposedly toughened them up to take care of the blowing up issue. Maybe they did. Or, maybe they only worked with certain calibers, like the ones likely to be used on elk. Anyway, the first one I fired at live game blew up and left a bad taste in my mouth. I have heard that at extended range, they are much slower to expand, which would explain your find.
could well be, we were shooting them in the late 90s from 30-06s and .300s. Id actually switched to Hornady bullets almost exclusively by the time i got my 7mm, so didn't try any besides the 120s in that cal till recently.
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