The continual question

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Wheelgun for the little lady

I too was very excited when my wife opted to begin carrying.

Her father had given her a Rossi 32S&W Longpistol, but it was small even for her hands and the unusual caliber made it a loser.

Immediately went to the local shop and purchased a S&W .38/357 Model 60 for her. That was her choice. Then we went to another shop that carried Concealed Carry purses. That was her choice of carry mode. As a belt holster was probably out of the question, I agreed and she carried that way for over a year until recently when she began carrying on the hip.

Most important for me was to let her choose, anything else was me forcing the issue.

Get her some good lessons as soon as $$$$ permits, or find someone who is an NRA certified trainer and have THEM teach her tactics and shooting...then enjoy shotting together.

Money may be limited, but spend every penny you can on a reputable weapon system and good training and she'll fall in love with shooting just like you.

Spoon
 
Makarov.
A little heavy, very controlable, accurate and VERY reliable. Makarov.com has the stuff to tailor it to suit her. Very affordable. Practice ammo is dirt cheap.

If It were me I would cave in on weight and look at a CZ-83. But the CZ-83 is priced over $300

ZM
 
I agree with sm.

I learned how to squeeze a trigger with a Ruger GP-100.

It also made a nice handweight and finger exerciser. ;)

With PPK type pistols watch out for the back of the slide, railroad tracks on your hand are painful...

If that single stack .380 Beretta with the tip-up barrel wasn't so large I might recommend it, but I think you are looking for something smaller.

Except for your price requirement the Glock 26 and Kahr PM-9 have a lot going for them.
 
Well, my gf will basically be in a deep carry situation. She cannot be made. I suppose she will either have to choose between always carrying a purse, or having a very small handgun.

The P series Kahrs will malf if limp-wristed, so they're probably not a good choice for a novice pistol shooter.

John
 
With more funds it seems now...
I will mention even tho I like the J frame snubs, be it Smith, or Taurus, I normally do not suggest as a first gun. This size is more difficult to master the basics, for this I prefer the medium frames. Many ladies I assited in teaching/ CCW did in fact go with a K frame in 2" - Police trade ins.

Used is okay by me, Most often preferred - especially if NO gun locks and other nonsense are required in one's state. Being as Gawgia has common sense we don't have to concern ourselves with such . :D

Smith 3913, Glock 26. "Push/ Pull" slide method, with practice she will forget she ever had a problem.

IF ( and you did not state such) she has a physical reason for difficulties - Always liked Beretta's tip up bbl feature. I forget Beretta's name for the larger .380, nice gun, scary accurate, conceals and wears nice on a ladies anatomy. The Tomcats I had / used back in the day were meant to be carried not shot...if these are improved, and a 32 ACP is enough comfort....

DO NOT let her shoot a BHP , or a 4" Commander Size 1911 style. About as bad if not worse than letting a lady shoot a 28 ga...

Gotta be some THRs down your way that can let her try some various makes and models.

C'mon folks, this is our JShirley...help a fella out will ya? :)
 
Bersa Thunder .380 too big? That's a first. I own one of those because I wanted something that I could carry no matter what I was wearing because they were so small. Personally, I don't really trust the .380 round to save my behind in a bind, but it's better than nothing.

If you're not looking at anything over $300 you don't have much in the way of choices. I did see an SP-101 for $300 used at a local gun store. Not a bad deal, but probably too big & too much gun for her first. You should be able to get a Makarov 9X18 at a gun show for $150 & 1000 rounds for $100. :D
I love mine, and I would probably rather carry that than my Bersa .380. They're about the same size.
 
I'm thinking something like a Model 64 may be the way to go.

J
 
I have the Model 64 - 3" RB HB

Ladies like the way it shot, and depending on anatomy and holster could conceal it. Some preferred the 2" model we also had for comparison. NO doubt they shot my 3" better, the 3" just has that pointability and balance, bit heavier too.

The "lighter" feel for some ladies for CCW made them choose the 2" . At the time many Police trade-ins were avail. IIRC ~ $200 -$250. The model 10 as you know is the same gun in blue - ran a little less monies.

Now some preferred the blue for carry, did not want 'shiney'. So carnuba car wax or RIG kept the blue guns in great shape with the AR humidity.

Once in awhile we'd find a model 36 ( J frame) with the 3" bbl, and that is a better shooter than the snubby with 1 7/8" bbl.

We also had different stocks, for instance we had 6 model 10s, each with a different set of stocks, so they could determine which stock was best for them with the same gun.

Seems the Eagle Secret Service was quite popular.

Various holsters, IWB and OWB were avail for trial as well. Some ladies would bring their holsters and let the new shooters/ CCW students try. Often a holster from the used bin, then the shoe shop guy would "alter a bit" and the holster better fit that ladies anatomy.

pax needs to weigh in on this, where is that gal? She and I may disagree, we do agree to disagree tho'. :D

I "think" pax and I agree on one aspect - let the shooter choose the gun. but hey I am a guy, so what do I know? :p
 
Mak slides are difficult to move

John,

The Mak's recoil spring is HEAVY. Cocking the hammer to rack the slide is a potential problem, as you then have a cocked and unlocked pistol (safety works as a decocker and locks the slide). Other than that, it might still be a potential choice. With mild ball ammo (like Federal), you wouldn't have to move up to a heavier (19# or 21#) recoil spring. With hand/wrist exercises and proper technique, it might be possible, and the price is certainly low. Mags and parts are also reasonable, and a Bersa .22 could be used for practice, if you found one used.

You may also want to look at the SP-101. They're a nice little gun, and not very big. With the "stick" grip frame, you can adjust the trigger reach with custom grips more easily than with a revolver with a full grip frame. It's an easier gun to shoot than a smaller J-frame. I have an all-stainless Taurus 85 that my wife does not like to shoot. She prefers a med-sized revolver, and I think that that is a good choice for a beginner.

If you choose a J-frame, I suggest all-steel. The recoil difference when moving to the lightweights is substantial.

What holster types are you looking at? I've been trying out the Null SMZ and like it a lot, so far.

Regards,
Dirty Bob
 
Bob,

She's going to have to decide between on-body and purse carry. If she goes with purse carry (she's the type that has rarely carried a purse in the past), it will definitely open up carrying weapons such as the Mak- which I do already own one of. A purse would also enable a 3" barrel wheelgun for more controllability.

John
 
John ~

If she really and truly cannot be made, and if she has rarely carried a purse in the past, then purse carry is probably not for her.

The big problem with purse carry, apart from speed issues, is simply that most women do not watch their purses as well as they think they do. They set the purse down on the floor next to the couch, and then get up and walk away while a kid is in the room. They put the purse into the top section of a shopping cart, and then turn their back on the cart while choosing which brand of soup to buy. They put the purse next to their desk at work, or in the bottom drawer, and don't think of it again for the rest of the day.

If she hasn't habitually carried a purse for years, she's more prone to these sorts of slip-ups than the average woman is. And when someone misplaces a purse, it isn't uncommon for a co-worker or friend to pick up the purse and then glance through it, trying to figure out whose it is. You can write the ending from there.

As for a gun type, since she expressed an interest in semi-autos and if money weren't an issue I'd probably have her try a Kahr P9. The new Kahr CW9's might fit the bill, but they aren't widely enough available yet to have dropped in price and you sure won't find one used.

I know a lot of women who like the Bersa Thunder. (I'm not one of them, but any port in a storm.)

Re the P3AT, by not having the grip strength to work the slide to you mean not enough hand strength to grasp the slide as it travels, or not enough arm strength to pull the slide back? I'm assuming you'll have shown her how to operate the slide, but am putting instructions here for whomever else might have a similar problem.

For people who have a hard time operating the slide: hold the gun in your dominant right hand in a firing grip, with your trigger finger completely outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame. Hold the gun close to the middle of your body, with your arms bent at least up to your belly button or a bit higher. With your left hand, grasp the slide and hold it firmly. Then, with a sudden jerking motion, thrust your right hand forward. Do not move your left hand or allow it to move while you do this. When you thrust your right hand forward, do it quickly and decisively -- moving slowly will wear your muscles out and that's no fun.

For the P3AT, locking the slide back is done simply by putting in an empty magazine during the above procedure. For other guns, you want to push up on the slide stop while doing all the above (iow, don't try to find the stop after the slide is to the rear; push up on the stop lever the whole time you're moving the slide and when the slide gets to the right place the slide stop lever will automatically go where you want it).

If it's just that she has a hard time holding onto the thin little slide, have her experiment with both slingshot & overhand methods and see if either of them is easier than the other.

If I could, I'd stay away from anything smaller than a .380, maybe just maybe a .32 but .380 would be better. Years ago if you wanted a small gun you had to have a small caliber, but that's not the case any more and there's no reason to go with a .22 when you can get a real defense gun with almost the same frame size.

HTH

pax
 
Pax,

Thanks for the input. I occasionally have to work extra hard to work a P-32 or 3AT slide- not because of strength, but just because the slide doesn't really give you much purchase- I've had to slingshot instead of my typical overhand grip sometimes, especially if fatigued towards the end of a long range session, or if my hands or the weapon were slippery (or both).

The P9 is not, I think, a good choice, even if money were not an issue, due to the possibility of malfunctioning if limp-wristed. When I had a P9, I've malf'd more than once when I was careless and didn't keep my wrist locked tightly enough- I certainly wouldn't try extra hard to give a novice a pistol that I knew could have this problem.

The problems you mention re purses are well taken. The lady in question, however, has no children with her. When she's somewhere and actually *has* her purse, it usually stays on her person. She doesn't fly a desk, and when she goes home, her purse goes in her room. I would be more comfortable with onbody carry, though. :)

John
 
John ~

All were only examples of times when purses get set down and might therefore get walked away from. If none of those situations could possibly apply to her, there are for sure other situations which might. Things to talk & think about beforehand!

Spent most of last month shooting a P9 and a CW9 side by side. Despite honest efforts, I couldn't make either one limp-wrist malf ... which means nothing except I couldn't do it. Certainly light polymer frames lend themselves to that problem, which was why I worked so hard to try to make it happen. The only thing I didn't try was shooting handloads lighter than a factory target load. I digress.

It does begin to sound as though a revolver might be the best option. I cannot think of a reliable semi-auto within your price range and also within the size limits you're needing and also not unpleasant to shoot. Should be possible to find a snub in good condition within the price limits you have to work with.

Wish I had more encyclopedic knowledge of small guns. Sorry not to be more help.

pax
 
Wheel gun, J frame, big rubber grips for practice, small grips for carry.

Here's one I fancied up for my daughter with a stainless barrel and cylinder.

possible2.JPG


I find the Clipdraw convienient. This is a '69 Model 36. She could practice with low power wad cutters and carry with +Ps.
 
George Hill said:
Taurus 650 CIA. You can find them used inside your price range
Click to expand...
I second that recommendation.
However in my area you can buy them NEW for less than $300.

Edited to add. However I find the 651 to be slightly better.

Lady45 got a 651 as her very first revolver and she loves it. Over 1500 rounds through it (1300+ .38 Special and 200+ .357 Magnum). Still as tight as the day it was made.


Advantages (in no particular order)

Reliable
Simple to operate
Superb double action trigger pull right out of the box
Exceptional single action trigger pull
Shrouded hammer
Excellent grips
Good sights
Exceptional accuracy
.357 Magnum capability (will fire any .38 Special or .357 Magnum)
Works well with speedloaders and speed strips
Long ejector rod
Available in blued carbon steel, stainless steel or titanium.
A gazillion holsters are available (S&W J-frame)
Crimson Trace makes laser grips for it
 
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On-body options...

John,

The three on-body carries that I have experience with are the belly band, the Ken Null SMZ shoulder holster and the Barami Hip-Grip. The advantage of all three is that they don't require a gun belt. While a thick belt's not too tough an adaptation for most of us guys, it stands out with much female attire.

The belly band is under the clothes, independent of the waistband, and some people swear by them. Out of the three, it's the one I have the least experience with, though I'm planning to change that (and write an article on the topic). I have two homemade belly bands and will be using a cheap IWB nylon holster in the "pocket." We'll see... The draw can be a Hackathorn "rip," or you can replace a button or two with snaps (my preference) or velcro. I've been told that this carry works best with the oval shape of most revolver grips, rather than the more rectangular grips of autos.

The SMZ shoulder holster is different, but the Makarov absolutely vanishes on me, hidden by my average male torso contours and a loose-fitting, tucked-in shirt. The SMZ uses a single strap with a suspender clip. When wearing under clothes, I fold the waistband of my briefs over and clip to the doubled waistband. You could also stitch a small piece of webbing inside various pants, skirts, etc. to clip to, as women's underwear is more lightly constructed. I've considered doing this myself. The SMZ wouldn't work at all for women who wear tight tops, but for me, it's a good option for office attire, and for formal wear as well. A lot of suits have belt loops too narrow for a standard gun belt.

The mighty Hip-Grip is inexpensive and easy to use. I can hide an all-steel J-frame revolver under almost anything, in appendix, cross draw or regular hip position. I am able to obtain a firing grip before draw, so I don't feel it rides too low, but that's a complaint I've heard before. I often use it with thin belts, with no problem. Some also complain that they can't grip it well and use a Hogue slip-on grip. Others use a Tyler T-grip, with stippling of the Hip-Grip with a hot wire and/or a piece of bike tubing over it. I use the Hip-Grip stock, with no problems. YMMV.

Both the Hip-Grip and the SMZ could work with 3" revolver, depending on her shape and clothing. I think the 3" SP-101 could be a strong candidate in her case, though I don't remember if there's a Hip-Grip for the SP-101. A 3" J-frame, by the way, is a rare thing, at least around here. They disappear from the shelves quickly. They're said to be some of the best-shooting snubbies, though I haven't had the chance to try one. Finally, don't discount the old Colt Police Positive. It's basically a Detective Special with a longer barrel, so it's fairly light and compact, yet it has a good sight radius and six shots.

Best wishes,
Dirty Bob
 
How will she be dressing when she plans on carrying?

This makes a big difference.

I have never been a big fan of ankle/calf holsters, but for some people in some situations they work ok.

The bellyband would be something worth trying out if you can borrow one, depending on her build and dress.

The Wilderness safepacker looks like a CD case and can be worn on the belt or carried other ways.
 
Just to clarify Bluesbear's statement. The gun he described is the Taurus model 651, not the model 650. I would also highly reccommend the 651. However, if she has no plans of ever shooting .357mag out of a snub, then I would reccommend the 851 (.38 special only) and save a few ounces in weight.
 
Thanks HiWayMan.

Somewhere in my correcting and speel chicking I accidentially deleted a line. I have since fixed it.

I could NOT tell the difference in the weight between the 851 and the 651 in shop. Since they were the exact same price we figured why not have the capability even if never used. Turns out it's a lot easier to shoot with .357 magnum ammo that you'd think.

Mill Creek has the titanium model and although it is suprisingly controllable with real magnum ammo I still much prefer the balance and recoil softening ability of Lady45's all steel model.
Shooting 100/200 rounds in a single session is no problem even with my bad arm.
 
bluesbear-
I also have the 651SS, but I swapped out the boot grip for the rosewood panels. Recoil is increased quite a bit by having the backstrap exposed, using magnum loads. Also, according to the Taurus website the 651SS weighs 25oz, and the 851SS weighs 21oz. The weight difference is hard to discern in the hand, but it is definately present.
 
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