CCW suggestions for Teeny Tiny lady

[280PLUS]

I had a very small Asian (Thai) lady arrive at the range the other night with her husband. She had just recently received her citizenship and her first official act as a U.S Citizen was to get her carry permit. So you have to love her, right? They had picked up a S&W Lightweight J frame in .38 special and she was not happy with the recoil at all. The backstrap was hurting the web of her hand. I tried it and thought it was pretty reasonable, but I'm a tad bigger than she is. Isn't there a gooey wrap around grip available for this model?

or

Does anyone have a suggestion for her as to a more user friendly firearm for someone of her stature that would still pack a pretty good wallop.

Her husband is concerned with her having enough knockdown power.

Thanx

 

[Black Snowman]

A differant grip might work. Not sure what's available to try or rent but something with a wider backstrap might work better. Say a double stack 9mm.

For the recoil sensative I usually direct them to look for the largest, heaviest gun that they're willing to carry in a light kicking but effective round like .38 Spl or 9mm.

Good luck helping her in her quest to find a CCW piece.

 

[mtnbkr]

I have on my S&W 36 (old model, no -number) a Pachmayr Compac grip that covers the backstrap. It's not particularly "gooey", but it fits my hand very well and removes any stinging recoil motion. The make them for square and round butt models. I have the squarebutt one.

Chris

 

[Oleg Volk]

Kahr P9 in autoloaders maybe? My own tiny Asian friend with small hands ended up doing best with a Glock 17, of all things. Let her try a bunch and pick one.

 

[Dees]

How about a model 60? It's a j-frame but without the lightweight kick.

 

[Black Majik]

I'd suggest either a Model 60 or a SP101 and use .38 spl.'s...

Only thing is, I've noticed the model 60 to have a longer grip than usual for the J-frame. Kinda looks funny when the grip looks as long as the barrel.

The SP101 might be a tad heavier, thus soak up a little more recoil. Both recoils the same to me, but she might notice a slight difference.

 

[cerberus]

Charter Arms

Makes a really nice 2 inch five shot 38 Spl. It's called the Undercover.

 

[eagle45]

How about one of the Taurus models (85 series) in a 38 +p?

I liked the grip a little better than the S&W, and the recoil is tolerable.

 

[redneck2]

How about the Kel-Tec p-38 (?) in .380. I haven't shot the .380 but the .32 has extremely low recoil and only weighs 7 oz. Super easy to hide. The .380 with Cor-Bons would have about the same power as 38 Sp

 

[Rangie]

The SP-101 might be a better choice. The factory rubber grip is pretty comfy and the heavier all steel gun soaks up .38spl recoil a lot better than an airweight will.

Or how about a 2" model 10 ?

 

[pax]

How about the Kel-Tec p-38 (?) in .380. I haven't shot the .380 but the .32 has extremely low recoil and...

redneck2 -- the P3AT is a great carry gun, but it's very uncomfortable to shoot. Trust me on this one, if she didn't like the recoil of a lightweight .38 she isn't going to be terrifically happy with a superlightweight .380. (We need an "owie!" smiley...)

Does anyone have a suggestion for her as to a more user friendly firearm for someone of her stature that would still pack a pretty good wallop.

280plus ~

IME, the deciding factor is not her stature; it is her attitude and (to a lesser extent) her hand size.

One tiny lady I know shoots a subcompact XD9, and does a good job of it.

The Kahr PM9 is a favorite of one 10 year old girl I know. Fits her pretty well and she has fun shooting it.

They could try getting her another .38 snubby that's not a lightweight. The universal complaint for the lightweights is that such guns are not as much fun to shoot as they are to carry. At least one woman I know carries a lightweight (titanium, I think?), but practices with a heavier version of the same gun.

Heck, you could even have her look at one of the Kimbers with the small-hands package. Yes, it's a .45. So? I know pre-teenage kids who shoot these pretty dang well. Again, it ain't body size, it's attitude. As long as she is physically normal and the distance from tang to trigger isn't too far for her to reach, there's no issue unless she thinks there's an issue.

pax

 

[Ky Larry]

My neice loves her Glock 33 in .357 SIG.

 

[oneshooter]

Double action revolver in 32 H&R Mag. Very accurate with close to 38 power.

Oneshooter
Livin in Texas

 

[molonlabe]

Revolver .38 special Lady Smith

 

[armoredman]

wifes choice

 

[280PLUS]

Good suggestions all,

I'll jot these down and pass them along to them. FWIW, I carry the lightweight J frame in .32 H&R mag and its recoil is a bit crispier or snappier than the lightweight .38. She was using winchester lead rounds. I was thinking about a steel .38 for her myself. But I like the others mentioned here too.

great stuff!

 

[JohnKSa]

The P32 is surprisingly easy on the hand as are the Government .380 and the Mustang .380 pistols.

 

[Preacherman]

Definitely look at the Pachmayr Compac grips. Pachmayr also make their Gripper and other grip styles for the J-frame, and one of them will certainly make shooting it a lot more comfortable (although the Compac might be best for her, if she has small hands). See here for Pachmayr's Web site.

The Compac looks like this:

The Gripper looks like this:

 

[Combat-wombat]

Without having shot it yet, I recommend a Sig P232 in .380. As someone mentioned, I'll bet that .380 will have plenty of power with CorBons. The 232, with hogue fingergroove grips, has got to be one of the best feeling guns I've handled. In the stainless steel version, it weighs 20 oz., but is not too heavy and I think could be carried with ease-the extra 4 ounces compared to the alloy version would also reduce recoil. I just got a 232 and it is exceptionally balanced and a gun that just fits your hand. I'd recommend it. (and again, that's without having shot it yet)

 

[NightWolfe]

how bout an STI LS9 ? all steel .. small .. low recoil .. great gun ...

 

[moorerwc]

It could have something to do with load selection. For many years the IWBA load of choice for .38 BUGs has been the 148 grain full wadcutter. Reason is that there is so much muzzle velocity lost with the short bbl. that it is very hard to get HP rounds to expand and if so, you used the sharp wadcutter in hopes that it will cut flesh better. +P and .357 magnum loading typically just turn into recoil and blast without an increase in terminal performance as well as causing problems with bullet setback. Only recently have there been loads developed to perform reliably in snubs, like the new Speer 135gn. +P Gold Dot, but all reports are that this is a handfull even in a 642--never have understood the false machismo of a .357 snub and the Ti/Sc guns are even worse.

When I taught my Mom to shoot, she was extremely recoil sensitive and because of Fibro Myalgia in her hands had trouble racking autoloader slides--she couldn't budge any of my Glock 9mms or 5" 1911s. But steel revolvers were too heavy and lightweights had too much recoil. When she went shopping for her own gun, we did a lot of handling at gunshows and she decided that she wanted a Beretta 92 Compact. It was light and relatively small, but because it has the same slide as the standard Beretta 92 (bbl. is shortened like the Centurion model) it used the recoil spring from the standard gun--thus gets around what most of us guys don't think about when recommending the smaller guns to women b/c smaller guns have heavier springs and snappier recoil. With top rated standard pressure HP loads, ala. 147gr. Gold Dots, Win. Ranger (LE), or Golden Saber, she gets terminal performance right up there with the best .45 and .40 loads and very low recoil. Also the weight distribution of its steel slide on lightweight frame makes the weight balance work against recoil for her. Even though many don't think the Beretta is good for small hands, Mom is 5'3" with very small, weak hands and handles it just fine (has even rented the standard 92 and handled it quite well); heck, she's deadly accurate. If handfit is a problem the Beretta is offered in the single stack Compact "M" and I'm sure the SIG 228, 225, and 239 would perform similarly and have a "short" trigger offered by the factory.

All this said, I really hesitate to reduce caliber below 9mm/.38 special--I really think these are bare minimums. I also wont recommend snaggy, rubber grips for carry--they have always reduced my ability to index any gun and I've never found them to be a big help in recoil control either.

Good luck,
-Chad

 

[Alan Fud]

... Double action revolver in 32 H&R Mag. Very accurate with close to 38 power ...

Actually, it's closer in power to a .380ACP than a .38special according to books written by M&S. But I do agree that a .32mag would be a good choice.

Something else to consider would be a full-size .380 -- either a 14-round Browning BDA ...

... pictured above next to a .38 special or one of the Beretta Cheetahs would be worth considering -- 14 well placed rounds of .380ACP is nothing to sneeze at.

 

[MrMurphy]

The S&W 640 (all steel) will be the same size and heavily cut down recoil. Weighs a few ounces more, but hey, you pay for it somewhere.

A set of Pachmayr Decelerators or Grippers will help too. The Uncle Mike's plastic Boot Grip helps on recoil, yet stays "unsticky" for holster carry (doesn't snag clothes).


Have her try a Airweight (aluminum frame) 642, or a steel 640. The lightweight models are too light to shoot much, especially for a new shooter.

A Ruger SP101 might be indicated too.

An NAA Guardian in .380 has fairly low recoil for a .380 and is still small.

 

[GEM]

My standard advice:

1. Women are well served by a good class aimed at women, probably taught by a woman or someone trained in this specific issue.

Too many guys put the techy cart before the horse.

Proper training and selection, as pointed out by Vicki Farnham, is more important than a guy picking out the gun.

2. The 232 is too snappy if recoil is a problem. So are the light J frame types. Many women buy these because they look cute and small. Bad idea as they are hard to shoot.

3. Do not buy a gun without her shooting it. If she says she doesn't like it, or seems unenthusiastic and is just pleasing the Macho man, back off, stop yapping about firepower - go back to step one.

4. The most important issue is having a gun. If you buy something she doesn't like, she wont' carry and won't practice. Thus, if you won't listen to my excellent advice - which really is a distillation of V. Farnham and serious study of the books by women shooters and having meet some of these authors - remember that the vast major of DGUs are deterrent. Most of you seem to focus on the crazed biker and the big gun. Too bad that leads the woman not to have a gun at all, not to carry your chosen cannon or to not be able to shoot it.

If you want to get a gun that she will shoot - you might have to go to one of the J frame type 22 LR or 22 mags. That is easily shootable. It will certainly serve as a deterrent and if round are placed in a BG can do real damage and make the bad guy go away. Yes, there are stories of people fighting after taking every round in COM or the bean - but most criminals don't.

If you do get her to like the 22 ish - then maybe you can train more. Training is more important than the repetitive techy babble that occurs when this question is asked. Many of the gun suggestions are good but man, I want a person to know what the gun is about.

 

[obiwan1]

I've got to agree with those suggesting a steel .38. My petite wife uses one with Pachy compac pro grips. No backstrap and no prob. Also suggest her duty load be Glasers or MagSafes. An alternative may be a Kahr K9. Again it's the steel version.