Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
In the later 80s,Daughter took some sport Karate classes to improve her co-ordination(Wife's reason) and because everyone needs to know how to fight(My reason).Sport Karate is not combat training but it's a step towards same for a pre pubescent.
Her instructor wanted to learn how to shoot. We arranged an exchange of favors. He had bought a shotgun for HD, he said, and we met at a farm where we could do a bit of familiarization and training.
Anyway, on arrival he proudly uncased a nickel plated,PG only,long magazine Winchester 1300 "Defender".
Of course, it had the "Assault" sling on it and he had an ammo belt holding lots of 15 pellet, 3" mag 00. My HD 870 with its black painted wood and thin blue was downright humble looking next to it.
He noted I eyed his pridenjoy askance. On asking, I told him that the PG was a detriment in the real world,and that I hoped he had a standard stock for it.He said he did, admitted ignorance about shotguns, and said he had bought this one because "It looked like the ones on TV". The ammo had been picked because he knew buckshot was used for combat, and he figured the more the better.
Fortunately, he listened, accepted my gift of a box or two of light generic field loads, and we got down to business.
Using brown paper grocery bags on sticks and clay pigeons scattered across the berm for targets, he soon found out that it was far easier to hit with my 870 than his Hollywood Special, and doing so in short time frames.
The man was extremely fit and well co-ordinated. Despite his ignorance and Chuck Norris haircut, he learned rapidly. enjoying himself up to when he insisted on shooting some of his 3" mag 00 loads. That turned into just one round, but he wasn't damaged permanently.
At his next lesson, he had installed a standard stock and progressed well.
This is SOOoo typical. Way too many folks regard TV shows and action movies as good training aids.
Sometimes this shows in technique, the Wesley Snipes School of operating a handgun sideways for instance. Or the Pimp Style hipshooting so beloved of TV shotgun operators. I will not call them shooters, because they're not.
More often, this shows in the purchase of Cool Stuff.
Cool Stuff would include those egregious PGs, slings with built in ammo bandoliers,heat shields, bayonets, ad nauseam.
Folding stocks are borderline, some small justification exists for these in undersized or cramped transport, like compact patrol cars or Brinks trucks.But,in 99% of "Serious" shotgunning use, the standard stock's the better choice. The standard stock is also more comfortable to shoot, so people tend to practice more, and practice begets expertise.
A PG only shotgun may POSSIBLY be easier to employ by a Nam era Tunnel Rat, or those whose firefights occur only in phone booths, but I've yet to see or hear of a real world scenario where these kept a good guy alive. Since my views have been widely printed and no PG fan has come up with an actual case, the database on this must be rather small, if it exists at all.
As for the other Cool Stuff and the Cool Factor, here's a good rule of thumb to tell the difference between Cool Stuff and accessories of worth.
Shotguns are just devices to comfortably direct a cloud or clouds of shot to a target or targets.
If something enables YOU to hit a target better, faster, or more comfortably, it's of worth. Any thing else is just Cool Stuff.
Few shotguns are employed in high enough volume of fire that a heat shield makes sense. Cool Stuff.
No currently available shotgun can employ a bayonet as bayonets are used without bending that thin metal barrel. The early M-16s in Nam had that problem, their barrels are much thicker than those found on shotguns. Shotgun bayonets are Cool Stuff.
Sights YOU can use in real world conditions, PDQ, fit that Rule of Thumb. Lazers and scopes, Cool Stuff mostly.
Duckbills, muzzle brakes,flash hiders, Cool Stuff.
3 1/2" Mag shells of 0000 pellets of depleted uranium rubbed with garlic, Cool Stuff.
9 pellet 00 loads of a make and load that pattern well in YOUR shotgun, not Cool Stuff.
Ported,extended choke tubes, borderline Cool Stuff.
A standard or extended choke tube that puts the tightest pattern where you need it, not Cool Stuff.
A sling with ammo on it. Cool Stuff. Try a fast COF and learn first hand about the Pendulum Effect.
A standard carry strap sling. Not Cool Stuff.
A "Tactical" style one point sling or one that has attachment points on the side of the weapon vs the bottom,maybe Cool Stuff, maybe not if training and practice enables faster, better, SAFER use.
I imagine there's going to be some squeaks of rage from Magnumistas and more extreme gearheads.
So be it.
Anyone living nearby that strongly disagrees, get in touch. We'll shoot your course of fire for score,time decides ties, and the loser buys the coffee after. Results published on the BB here.
Questions, comments, coffee orders?
Her instructor wanted to learn how to shoot. We arranged an exchange of favors. He had bought a shotgun for HD, he said, and we met at a farm where we could do a bit of familiarization and training.
Anyway, on arrival he proudly uncased a nickel plated,PG only,long magazine Winchester 1300 "Defender".
Of course, it had the "Assault" sling on it and he had an ammo belt holding lots of 15 pellet, 3" mag 00. My HD 870 with its black painted wood and thin blue was downright humble looking next to it.
He noted I eyed his pridenjoy askance. On asking, I told him that the PG was a detriment in the real world,and that I hoped he had a standard stock for it.He said he did, admitted ignorance about shotguns, and said he had bought this one because "It looked like the ones on TV". The ammo had been picked because he knew buckshot was used for combat, and he figured the more the better.
Fortunately, he listened, accepted my gift of a box or two of light generic field loads, and we got down to business.
Using brown paper grocery bags on sticks and clay pigeons scattered across the berm for targets, he soon found out that it was far easier to hit with my 870 than his Hollywood Special, and doing so in short time frames.
The man was extremely fit and well co-ordinated. Despite his ignorance and Chuck Norris haircut, he learned rapidly. enjoying himself up to when he insisted on shooting some of his 3" mag 00 loads. That turned into just one round, but he wasn't damaged permanently.
At his next lesson, he had installed a standard stock and progressed well.
This is SOOoo typical. Way too many folks regard TV shows and action movies as good training aids.
Sometimes this shows in technique, the Wesley Snipes School of operating a handgun sideways for instance. Or the Pimp Style hipshooting so beloved of TV shotgun operators. I will not call them shooters, because they're not.
More often, this shows in the purchase of Cool Stuff.
Cool Stuff would include those egregious PGs, slings with built in ammo bandoliers,heat shields, bayonets, ad nauseam.
Folding stocks are borderline, some small justification exists for these in undersized or cramped transport, like compact patrol cars or Brinks trucks.But,in 99% of "Serious" shotgunning use, the standard stock's the better choice. The standard stock is also more comfortable to shoot, so people tend to practice more, and practice begets expertise.
A PG only shotgun may POSSIBLY be easier to employ by a Nam era Tunnel Rat, or those whose firefights occur only in phone booths, but I've yet to see or hear of a real world scenario where these kept a good guy alive. Since my views have been widely printed and no PG fan has come up with an actual case, the database on this must be rather small, if it exists at all.
As for the other Cool Stuff and the Cool Factor, here's a good rule of thumb to tell the difference between Cool Stuff and accessories of worth.
Shotguns are just devices to comfortably direct a cloud or clouds of shot to a target or targets.
If something enables YOU to hit a target better, faster, or more comfortably, it's of worth. Any thing else is just Cool Stuff.
Few shotguns are employed in high enough volume of fire that a heat shield makes sense. Cool Stuff.
No currently available shotgun can employ a bayonet as bayonets are used without bending that thin metal barrel. The early M-16s in Nam had that problem, their barrels are much thicker than those found on shotguns. Shotgun bayonets are Cool Stuff.
Sights YOU can use in real world conditions, PDQ, fit that Rule of Thumb. Lazers and scopes, Cool Stuff mostly.
Duckbills, muzzle brakes,flash hiders, Cool Stuff.
3 1/2" Mag shells of 0000 pellets of depleted uranium rubbed with garlic, Cool Stuff.
9 pellet 00 loads of a make and load that pattern well in YOUR shotgun, not Cool Stuff.
Ported,extended choke tubes, borderline Cool Stuff.
A standard or extended choke tube that puts the tightest pattern where you need it, not Cool Stuff.
A sling with ammo on it. Cool Stuff. Try a fast COF and learn first hand about the Pendulum Effect.
A standard carry strap sling. Not Cool Stuff.
A "Tactical" style one point sling or one that has attachment points on the side of the weapon vs the bottom,maybe Cool Stuff, maybe not if training and practice enables faster, better, SAFER use.
I imagine there's going to be some squeaks of rage from Magnumistas and more extreme gearheads.
So be it.
Anyone living nearby that strongly disagrees, get in touch. We'll shoot your course of fire for score,time decides ties, and the loser buys the coffee after. Results published on the BB here.
Questions, comments, coffee orders?
