The Death of Colt

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Ruger745

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As I gazed upon a 3rd generation Colt detective special, and a Colt python, but before I spent nearly $2000, I got to thinking if Colt doesn't step up and do something they'll probably be gone soon.
Here's my reasoning, and the shop owner behind the counter as well
1. They've lost the government contract with the m16
2. When they became government brown nosers, they practically turned their backs on a marketplace that had been loyal to them for over 100 years. (remind anyone of Smith and Wesson and the Brits?)
3. They have a meger line up of firearms, and they're a large company. For example, Marlin is a somewhat small company but they have more in their line up than Colt, and they nearly went out of business.
4. They quit making double action revolvers. These revolvers were beautiful, and were top of the line for quality with prices that weren't over the top.
5. Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.
6. What little they do produce is overpriced, and yet their quality is nowhere where it used to be.

Am I the only one who thinks if Colt doesn't step up to the plate and actually sell to THE PEOPLE, that they'll be gone soon?
 
I 100% agree with you about the quality, they just don't make em like they used to. I think that colt should sell more to the public and remember who gave colt their prestige, but as long as they continue to hold government contracts they'll be around. When they don't have that big money government contract anymore they'll be begging the public to buy their guns and overcharge for what you get.
 
I partially agree...

I feel that the supply/demand loop has been modified by production limits in order to keep popularity up

I have been looking for a new delta elite and found no suppliers with them in stock
I went so far as to call colt and found that the product run for 2011 has been manufactured shipped and sold and no more will be produced untill 2012 and that I should have a shop preorder one and wait (god knows how long) to recieve one

this reminds me of toy marketing in the 80s
for every 50 he-mans made they made one skeletor just to make him more rare and in turn attempted to be more valuable as well

I have a feeling limiting the production numbers is whats keeping colts prices up as of late not quality
 
+1 to everything already posted. Can you imagine how many Pythons they'd sell if the quality was like it used to be and the price was realistic? Same thing applies to the 1911.
 
Amen brother! I have always been partial to Colts both revolvers and semiautos and have been fortunate to have bought several before Colt's current predicament and all we can hope for is their top management to pull their collective heads out of the --------(insert your own word). Pythons selling for 1500.00 or more...ridiculous. :cuss:
 
If they produced the Python it would be a $2k revolver and vastly inferior to the Smith 686. Which is pretty much what killed the gun in the first place.

They are a sad shadow of their former selves. They produce ancient designs that have been superceded by virtually everybody else in the marketplace. Recently I got in an XSE and a Citadel. While the XSE had slightly better fit and finish the Citadel was in fact a better-made gun for about half the money.

Colt has spent most of the last 30 years suing people for one thing or another rather than on formulating guns the public will want to buy.
 
Besides some of their quality problems, they have completely priced themselves out of the market. If they dropped the prices on the 1911's they would have a hard time meeting the demand even with all the competition.
 
Yup to all of the above. They will go the way of Bentley if they don't make some dramatic changes. A handcrafted auto manufacturer catering to a niche market.

Also, will someone please explain to me why the Colt cylinder release is a PULL lever instead of one that can be pushed with the thumb and loaded with the left hand? How does one release the cylinder and load in one smooth quick operation?
 
I guess I must have been lucky. I bought a few new, WWI repro 1911's in recent years and they have been flawless. Both were around $900 new. The S70 Repro and other 1911's, even the XSE's can be had for under $1K, or just over. I think their quality is on par or better than Springfield, Kimber and other competitors at the same respective price points.
 
While the XSE had slightly better fit and finish the Citadel was in fact a better-made gun
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Really? Really?? sigh* must remember to take the high road...

Colt 1911s are closer to the original than most other makes- they use very good steel forgings and keep mim to a minimum. Just bough a Colt Rail Gun XSE and am quite happy with it.
 
Regarding prices on Colts...

Colt automatics are priced competitively--and in most cases BETTER--than the other high end offerings on the market.

Example: Buy a Wilson, Nighthawk or Kimber model with all the bells and whistles, and you'll pay well over a thousand dollars. For the Nighthawk, make it two thousand.

Colt XSE Combat Elite--everything you need or want on a semiauto fighting gun, and right at or slightly under a thousand bucks.

Colt Special Combat Gov't--the best of the best--hand fitted, adjustable sights, with a test target and guaranteed accuracy--right at $1600.
 
cyclops
Im not doubting that colts are of good quality but at the same time they are not of the SAME quality from the past

I just wish they would raise the production numbers a good deal some of us would like to get our colts before we become antiques as well
 
I don't think it is relevant to compare Colt's previous double action revolver offerings to its new 1911's. Apples and oranges and Colt no longer makes its revolvers. Compare the older 1911's with the new ones. While the finish may be a little nicer on some older models, I think the new ones compare favorably and have better steel in many cases.

Pick up an 01911, 01918 or current S70 Repro or Gold Cup Trophy and see.
 
Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.
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Colt just extensively revamped their machinery for their 1911s. Fit/finish/quality now is very good compared to the price they charge. You want a semi-custom gun, pay the price. Don't expect a custom/semi-custom firearm at a mass produced price. Expensive hand fitting for a mass produced firearm is a bygone era. Machining techniques used today may not be as attractive cosmetically, but they make the guns affordable and just as, if not more accurate, consistent and reliable as their predecessors.



If they produced the Python it would be a $2k revolver and vastly inferior to the Smith 686. Which is pretty much what killed the gun in the first place.
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I don't know about inferior, but they would be comparable. For three times the price most folks would and did pass and buy the 686. The guns were/are nice, but they weren't/aren't the Holy Grail. Not being made anymore is what makes the older guns valuable. If they were a such great gun, worth whatever it cost to produce them, they would have never been discontinued in the first place. I'm sure actual marketing directors with degrees other than gun forum poster, have research the feasibility of returning the gun to production. Sometimes, there just ain't enough profit in something to produce it. Stockholders want a return on their investment.(me included)
 
1. They've lost the government contract with the m16
2. When they became government brown nosers, they practically turned their backs on a marketplace that had been loyal to them for over 100 years. (remind anyone of Smith and Wesson and the Brits?)
3. They have a meger line up of firearms, and they're a large company. For example, Marlin is a somewhat small company but they have more in their line up than Colt, and they nearly went out of business.
4. They quit making double action revolvers. These revolvers were beautiful, and were top of the line for quality with prices that weren't over the top.
5. Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.
6. What little they do produce is overpriced, and yet their quality is nowhere where it used to be.
Click to expand...

i agree 100%. what they do make is overpriced for what you get, like their 1911's that come with plastic MSH's :eek:

they charge extra for that little pony on the slide, but i don't care about prestige, i want quality and features for the money. most of the recent production colt 1911's i've looked at have had bad machining, thumb safeties falling off the frame, etc......this is why i've never even considered purchasing one of their products. not to mention all the accounts on 1911forum of poor cust serv from them.


colt is probably in the guiness book of world records for the amount of times they've filed bankruptcy LOL, so it wouldn't surprise me if that happened again.


those die hard brand loyalists that like them for no other reason other than they're colts can have them. ;)
 
Rug,

1. Yes, they did.

2. They did not "turn their backs" on loyal customers. This term is used often & everytime it is it shows a lack of understanding of basic business principles. Colt is a BUSINESS. As such, it's not there to continue to provide slow-selling nostalgia products to a relatively low-return market segment. They made a very easy-to-understand business decision to put limited resources into the areas of greatest return. The military market is the only thing that's kept the Colt name in the game. If you can't make both, and you can sell 5000 M-16s for every .44 Anaconda, what would YOU do?
Government "brown nosing" has zero to do with it, and as I repeatedly point out when this equine carcass surfaces- it wasn't only OUR government buying.

3. Colt is not a large company. They used to be, but no longer.

4. Colt's DA revolvers were simply not selling well enough to be retained.

5. Agree on the difference in quality, although it's come up recently.
This QC decline is hardly unique to Colt, though. The Marlin example you cite showed a much larger decline toward the last year or so in the old plant. Some would also include S&W's current revolvers, and the last couple years of the old USRAC plant in New Haven did not produce guns known as high-water marks in that department.

6. Pricing is a matter of individual choice & tolerance.
Many of us are perfectly happy to spend a little extra to get what Colt offers in configurations, materials, and designs.

Colt is now stronger than it's been in the past 15 years, and hopefully they'll be able to keep on keepin' on for quite a while longer.

Denis
 
+1 to everything already posted. Can you imagine how many Pythons they'd sell if the quality was like it used to be and the price was realistic? Same thing applies to the 1911.
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Companies are in business to make a profit, not create museum pieces. Do you know how much Colt would have to charge to make Pythons like they used to? Look at what used Pythons go for on the secondary market.

I guarantee, the price would not be "realistic". Plus the tooling no longer exists to make the Python and to invest in new machining and ramp up for production would not be economically viable. So before everyone starts bashing Colt for not making things the way they used to, get a grip on the reality of serving a marketplace in today's economic environment.

Do S&W's revolvers resemble their previous offerings in quality, fit and finish?
 
Rug,

1. Yes, they did.

2. They did not "turn their backs" on loyal customers. This term is used often & everytime it is it shows a lack of understanding of basic business principles. Colt is a BUSINESS. As such, it's not there to continue to provide slow-selling nostalgia products to a relatively low-return market segment. They made a very easy-to-understand business decision to put limited resources into the areas of greatest return. The military market is the only thing that's kept the Colt name in the game. If you can't make both, and you can sell 5000 M-16s for every .44 Anaconda, what would YOU do?
Government "brown nosing" has zero to do with it, and as I repeatedly point out when this equine carcass surfaces- it wasn't only OUR government buying.

3. Colt is not a large company. They used to be, but no longer.

4. Colt's DA revolvers were simply not selling well enough to be retained.

5. Agree on the difference in quality, although it's come up recently.
This QC decline is hardly unique to Colt, though. The Marlin example you cite showed a much larger decline toward the last year or so in the old plant. Some would also include S&W's current revolvers, and the last couple years of the old USRAC plant in New Haven did not produce guns known as high-water marks in that department.

6. Pricing is a matter of individual choice & tolerance.
Many of us are perfectly happy to spend a little extra to get what Colt offers in configurations, materials, and designs.

Colt is now stronger than it's been in the past 15 years, and hopefully they'll be able to keep on keepin' on for quite a while longer.

Denis
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All of this is correct.


.
 
I completely agree with what has been posted this far. Its like Colt had completely given up
Hell they can't see the potential dollars right I'm front of their faces. One of their classic designs the Mustang, would be a huge Seller but they refused to bring the back
Sig saw the writings on the wall for the public's need to a compact .380 and started to produce the 238
Which IMHO is a blatant ripoff of the Mustang.

If Colt where to reintroduce their python, 1903 hammerless or SSA with old school craftsmanship at an affordable pricepoint they could win back a lot of customers and make a boatload of money
 
Government contracts.

Why sell pythons to a niche audience when they can crank out thousands of rifles for Uncle with a better profit ratio?
 
Colt's then president basically one upped Bill Ruger by speaking out in favor of registration. He was rather promptly booted from his job but the damage to Colt's rep was done.

Colt tried their hand what they thought was innovation with the All-American 2000 but it failed miserably.

The UAW strike they had in the 1980s did not help either. They seem to have been limping along lately and I wouldn't be surprised if they get bought for a song.

Lesson of business is that you have to think in the long run and not just zero in on the short term.
 
Do S&W's revolvers resemble their previous offerings in quality, fit and finish?
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No. They are much better than they used to be. Better materials, better machining. I've probably handled several hundred in the last 5 years and there might have been one or two with inferior actions. Most were simply superb.

Really? Really?? sigh* must remember to take the high road...

Colt 1911s are closer to the original than most other makes- they use very good steel forgings and keep mim to a minimum. Just bough a Colt Rail Gun XSE and am quite happy with it.
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'Fraid so. Trigger was much better on the Citadel, as was slide to frame fit. The machining on the slide was slightly better on the Colt, but you had to hold them side by side to tell.
They might be closer to the original guns, which were sloppy and wore out quickly. My gunsmith, a Colt registered 'smith, tells me in the 1970s it was rare to find a Colt 1911 that would feed a single magazine of hardball reliably out of the box.
As for pricing, I have found the SIG 1911's a far better value than Colts, or any competitor.
 
Mac,
Nope, you're way off. What you suggest simply can't be done.

It's not a matter of Colt failing to see dollar signs, it's a matter of Colt not having the dollars to begin with.
Introducing a totally new design costs BIG money. Re-introducing a long-gone design also costs money.
You don't just snap your fingers before lunch & start selling them right after lunch.

Materials have to be sourced & paid for, machinery paid for or programmed, employees trained, parts sourced, vendor channels set up, in-house part inventories set up.
Since there wouldn't be enough to return to justify that, much less new production equipment, production would have to be rotated among existing models on existing machinery, creating more delays on those existing models.

Colt hasn't given up, they just flat don't have the resources.

It also would not be possible to re-introduce outdated designs based on outdated production methods & market demands such as the Python or the 1902 at "affordable" pricing, even with CNC.
Colt would NOT make a bundle, they'd lose a bundle.

"Old school craftsmanship" and "affordable pricepoint" simply can't be done anymore.
It's a dream that needs to wake up to reality.
Denis
 
I look at what I see being shot at the range, or I look at what is being talked about here on THR, and I just do not see a market for a new Python, or any other Colt gun comparable in finish to the high polished blue and checkered walnut of yesteryear.

The emphasis has changed. I see lots of talk about Glocks and XDs, Scandium this or Stainless that, Polymer wonders and CCW or tactical weapons. For every thread about some traditional blue or nickel gun, there are twenty for the modern defensive handguns that do not emphasize looks or finish.

Colt could probably build a new revolver and sell enough to make a tidy profit, but it won't be as nicely finished as the old ones. It will have to focus instead on things like durability and concealment for use as a defensive tool, because that is what the market calls for. And then they will catch all sorts of flak for not making them like they used to!
 
I have two Colt 1911s that I have purchased new in the last three years. Their quality is better than the quality of my Colt 1911 that I purchased new in the 70s.

Colt is dead has been the mantra for the last twenty five years. :rolleyes: It's not happening any time soon.
 
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