The Death of Colt

[SharpsDressedMan]

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"As I gazed upon a 3rd generation Colt detective special, and a Colt python, but before I spent nearly $2000, I got to thinking if Colt doesn't step up and do something they'll probably be gone soon."
I said this to myself about 15 years ago. Colt is still here. Go figure.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

another thing i noticed about colt is that they waste resources on making $1,250+ Sing Action Army revolvers. why? how many do they possibly sell? wouldn't a single stack .380 be more viable in today's market, not to mention a quality polymer pistol? they discontinued the python, yet they still make these? LOL


like i said though, we all know Colt has a history of extremely poor business decisions lol

 

[Jim K]

FWIW, I think a Python, made today the same way it was made "back then" would cost a lot more than $2000. And the people who claim to want them so badly would look, sneer, and walk away, saying that bringing them back destroyed the collectibility.

Jim

 

[Pilot]

Colt sells every SAA and 1911 they make. Why would they want to compete in a saturated market of polymer while their nitch is profitable and sastisfy many on several levels.

If there are problems with any Colt you buy they will fix it. Their CS is much better now.

All gun makers produce lemons. While I appreciate my Python, Diamondback and Woodsman Match Target, all made the old fashioned way, I like my new Colts better.

 

[DPris]

Also as I've said before, Colt considers the iconic Peacemaker to be more of a PR offering than a practical one.
Because it's one of the most instantly recognizable handguns in the world, they're willing to keep it going.

Can't say the same about the Python, with no comparable history or great name usage & recognition value. The Python's always been an expensive niche gun, whereas the Peacemaker evokes Western expansion, heroes, and adventure.

Gimme the names of five Python users who can equate to Bat Masterson, Wyatt Earp, Theodore Roosevelt, George Custer's 7th Cavalry, or even Matt Dillon.

You buy a Colt Peacemaker, all of that comes with it.
You buy a Python, you get a very pretty target revolver.

Denis

 

[Leaky Waders]

"They waste resources on making $1,250+ Single Action Army revolvers. ? how many do they possibly sell? wouldn't a single stack .380 be more viable in today's market"

Well, considering they are making custom fitted SAA's that aren't lawyered up with Rugeresque billboard wraparound warning labels in a classic design similar to what was produced in 1873...they sell everyone they make. And, we have to wait sometimes to get our hands on them.

Unlike the .380 - a round more famous for a fictional character named after an ornithologist...the 45 long colt in that antiquated SAA has a real history carried by real people, some who are American icons. Also, it still works, for both hunting and self defense.

Colt 1911's (as well as their M4's and SAA's) are the firearms that are the paragons which others are judged. I think that most internet Colt bashers have never even purchased a Colt especially when they compare lesser quality firearms that cost even more than the Colt.

I know when my Colts go to the range, people ask to shoot them. And Colts tend to hold their value as compared to other offerings.

Need a 38super or 10mm? Colt has loyally produced firearms in these rounds when most others turned their back to to other more popular offerings.

I personally have no interest in a wee little 380 round pistol or any more plastic junk on the market place. How many companies have to throw around tupperware pistols on the counters to keep those mall ninja's satisfied anyways?

 

[oneounceload]

+1 to everything already posted. Can you imagine how many Pythons they'd sell if the quality was like it used to be and the price was realistic? Same thing applies to the 1911.

If Colt where to reintroduce their python, 1903 hammerless or SSA with old school craftsmanship at an affordable pricepoint they could win back a lot of customers and make a boatload of money

Except they CAN'T- you folks want 1950-60's handfitting today but at those prices - isn't happening - their union troubles did a lot to sink them as well as the bad business practices

The issue with reincarnating an out of production line, is that it will ALWAYS be compared to the original - and in order to have that level of quality, the prices will be so high, nothing will get sold in quantities high enough to generate a reasonable profit


IF Colt can survive, it will be as a semi or custom builder like Wilson or Baer - JMO

 

[tipoc]

1. They've lost the government contract with the m16
2. When they became government brown nosers, they practically turned their backs on a marketplace that had been loyal to them for over 100 years. (remind anyone of Smith and Wesson and the Brits?)
3. They have a meger line up of firearms, and they're a large company. For example, Marlin is a somewhat small company but they have more in their line up than Colt, and they nearly went out of business.
4. They quit making double action revolvers. These revolvers were beautiful, and were top of the line for quality with prices that weren't over the top.
5. Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.
6. What little they do produce is overpriced, and yet their quality is nowhere where it used to be.

1. Well yes and no. They did eventually lose a section of the M16 contract to FN but this was about the time they won the exclusive contract to supply the U.S. with the M4 and about the time the U.S. military began ordering more M4s than M16s. Even after losing the M16 contract Colt remained the supplier of choice for the M16 for a number of countries other than the U.S. There is a good discussion of Colt and the M16 and M4 in the book "American Rifle" which I recommend to anyone.

2. "Government Brown nosers" This is an interesting take on a company that has been one of the chief suppliers to the U.S. military for over 100 years. Several years ago Colt divided into two separate companies Colt Manufacturing (civilian sales) and Colt Defense for military and law enforcement. Colt manufacturing makes the Colt SAA and 1911 and variations of it, such as the Colt Agent, it sells all that it can make. They have about 100 employees. Colt Defense has an bout 2000 employees and is thriving.

3. Colt Defense has an extensive line up which you can see here...

http://colt.com/

You can see what Colt Manufacturing has here...

http://www.coltsmfg.com/

Decide for yourself if the line up is "meager".

4. They did stop selling the da revolvers. No one was buying them. Competition from S&W, Ruger, Taurus and Colt management's incompetence drove them out of the market. Oh and the fact that the law enforcement contracts dried up played a role as well.

5. Having looked at a good many of both I can honestly say that the 1911s coming from Colt today are better than those made in the 70s and 80s. The finish was better back then but the functioning of the guns is better today. The Colt SAAs were better in the 70s though.

6. Prices are competitive.

You can be pissed at Colt but at least be irritated for the right reasons. It is a successful company, both parts of it.

tipoc

 

[19&41]

Looks like it's going to require the patronage of the moneyed gentry to float Colt's boat.

 

[tipoc]

Colt's boat is floating very well. That is not a matter of opinion it's factual and can be verified by anyone who is really interested in the facts.

tipoc

 

[royal barnes]

Colt builds the SAA and the 1911 because they are both sellers. Colt cannot make either fast enough to keep up with the demand. Current quality on both those models is as good as ever and in the case of the SAA much better than 15 years ago. I own a number of each and do not care to have other makes in my collection.

 

[Apocalypse-Now]

come on guys, you're not going to convince me that SAA's are a source of great profit for colt lol

i don't see the SASS being a viable consumer market considering they adopted 1911's into their competitions to prevent going extinct.

 

[wlewisiii]

If you want a good idea of what it would cost to make a modern day Python the old fashioned way, just look at the Connecticut Shotgun licensed version of the Winchester Model 21. http://www.connecticutshotgun.com/

The cheap gun starts at $15k.

 

[dfariswheel]

Again:

Colt is doing very well these days.
They've announced a number of new or reintroduced models including the Mustang, a new double action 1911 type series, a new .308 AR rifle, re-introduced the former police-only AR rifles back into the commercial line, and the manager of the Custom Shop has announced that a double action revolver is coming.
They've announced the re-introduction of the Colt New Frontier and a stainless steel Single Action Army is coming.
Colt's catalog has a nice line up of guns with more coming now that they're getting back on their feet and have new production equipment.
What people don't take into effect is that Colt sells the military and police guns world wide and is making good money.

Quality-wise, Colt is making the best 1911 pistols since the 1960's, and according to the latest numbers from the ATF, Colt is making more 1911 pistols than anyone but Kimber.
People don't see Colt's in the display cases and figure they aren't making any.
The truth is, Colt's seldom make it into the dealers display case because they sell too fast.

Colt isn't fading, they're getting stronger every year, and every year they're announcing new models.
Some people seem to have gotten lost back in the 1980's and fail to realize that Colt has progressed past the bad old days.

As for not making the Python and the other old revolvers, they were no longer profitable so they had to be dropped.
Brace yourselves, the Buick and Packard were also discontinued.

 

[DPris]

Apo,
I don't think anybody's trying to tell you the Peacemaker is a great profit source for Colt.
I told you above why they keep it going.
SASS is a part of the market, but not the largest part by any means.
Denis

 

[harvester]

I have three 1911 pattern pistols, all Colts made in 80's,90's, and this week I picked up a 2011 Gold Cup Trophy. The quality is back.

 

[orionengnr]

I was born and raised in CT, and visited the Colt factory as a young lad. My father was a WWII vet, and the second gun I ever fired (after a single shot .22 rifle) was his WWII 1911.

To this day, I feel an exquisite pride in being a native of the Constitution State. Unfortunately, the cradle of Liberty where I was raised is now a mockery of what it was just 50 years ago.

I have owned a number of Colts in the past, including ARs and 1911s. My current ARs are made by Armalite, and my current 1911s are made by Kimber, DW, Les Baer and so on...

 

[Guillermo]

If they produced the Python it would be a $2k revolver and vastly inferior to the Smith 686. Which is pretty much what killed the gun in the first place.

That is funny.

2 686's live at my house (fine guns...think "toyota camry". Well made..dependable...cheap-ish) and a Python.

First off...the wheels on the Colt bus were falling off all on their own.
The 686 was a cheap police duty side arm. It had NOTHING to do with the demise of Colt.

The Python was a highly finished, highly tuned, performance machine. Smith's competitor was the Model 27...not the 686.

As to being superior...one can certainly say the 686 was a superior value. While factory triggers were acceptable they were never great. Fit and finish was fine. And accuracy good. Good guns at a good price. Even a low paid security guard could afford them. I applaud S&W for producing such a fine "everyman's" gun.

Now if you want to compare a Smith 27...now you are talking!
The 27 is a great gun...the 357 flagship of Smith.

One could argue that the 27 was superior to the Python...Of course that was before the wheels fell of Smith's bus.

 

[Chindo18Z]

My gunsmith, a Colt registered 'smith, tells me in the 1970s it was rare to find a Colt 1911 that would feed a single magazine of hardball reliably out of the box.

Wow. I bought several new Colt 1911s back in the 70's and don't seem to recall that issue. Mine worked just fine. Those owned by lots of other shooters of my acquaintance at that time worked just fine.

Just lucky I guess...

 

[ColtPythonElite]

If they brought back a "new" Python that cost 2 grand, would it sell? Heck, no there are too many NIB ones out there right now that can be had for less than that....Wanna see some pics?...LOL.

If Colt brought back a double action revolver that was priced between a GP100 and 686, would it sell? Heck, yes...Or at least that's what I say. I'll be the first in line to buy one. I'd guess to build such a gun, it would have to have the MKV (King Cobra) action. They could stick Python-like barrel with a vent rib and crowned muzzle on it to give it that snazzy look....If that can build such a gun, I will gladly try one out.

 

[Armed012002]

The revolver market, unfortunately, isn't very large.

As someone who loves double action revolvers, I really wish there was an "Ed Brown" or "Wilson Combat" making Pythons to the same quality standards as high end 1911s.

Unfortunately, it seems, most people who buy a revolver buy one because they want to shoot a Magnum. Judging from the limited number of makers of Magnum double action revolvers, the Magnum double action revolver market is pretty small.

Smith & Wesson, Ruger, Taurus, and Charter Arms are the largest makers of double action revolvers. Compare that to the number of makers of 1911s or semiautomatics in general.

As far as marketing, Ruger, Taurus, and Charter Arms sell revolvers to the "everyman". Smith & Wesson sell revolvers to both the everyman and a little more higher end buyer; however, even the higher end S&W revolvers are priced close to $1,000.

I would really love to see Colt bring back the Python, but how much business sense that makes is questionable.

 

[Armed012002]

and the manager of the Custom Shop has announced that a double action revolver is coming.

Details please!

 

[ColtPythonElite]

I've heard the same thing ^^ and no details...I heard this rumor about 6 months ago.

 

[ranburr]

As I gazed upon a 3rd generation Colt detective special, and a Colt python, but before I spent nearly $2000, I got to thinking if Colt doesn't step up and do something they'll probably be gone soon.
Here's my reasoning, and the shop owner behind the counter as well
1. They've lost the government contract with the m16
2. When they became government brown nosers, they practically turned their backs on a marketplace that had been loyal to them for over 100 years. (remind anyone of Smith and Wesson and the Brits?)
3. They have a meger line up of firearms, and they're a large company. For example, Marlin is a somewhat small company but they have more in their line up than Colt, and they nearly went out of business.
4. They quit making double action revolvers. These revolvers were beautiful, and were top of the line for quality with prices that weren't over the top.
5. Compare a 1911 made by them in the 70's & 80's to one made today, and you can notice a considerable difference in the quality-or lack of- of their pistols made today.
6. What little they do produce is overpriced, and yet their quality is nowhere where it used to be.

Am I the only one who thinks if Colt doesn't step up to the plate and actually sell to THE PEOPLE, that they'll be gone soon?

Just about everything in the original post is wrong.

1. Colt hasn't had the M16 contract in decades. They do have an extremely lucrative M4 contract.
2. This is somewhat correct. They really just made a business decision to focus on gov't contracts.
3. Colt has a much larger line up than Marlin ever did. It is simply focused on a market that you are not a part of. Marlin was poorly run and only saved by the Remington purchase.
4. The revolvers were good guns that were costly to make and had very limited market appeal.
5. You have a much different memory than mine. The 1970s produced guns that looked like they were made by a drunken UAW union worker 5 minutes before a strike. The 80s were not much better. The current Colts are some of the best ever.
6. You can get a Colt for under $1K, that has more forged and less MIM than anything else in the price range.

Colt has posted the highest earnings in the history of the company.

 

[Bubba613]

Wow. I bought several new Colt 1911s back in the 70's and don't seem to recall that issue. Mine worked just fine. Those owned by lots of other shooters of my acquaintance at that time worked just fine.

Just lucky I guess...

Yeah. The personal experience of someone with "several" guns trumps that of a practicing gunsmith who saw probably hundreds.
Carry on.