the dirty on Walther P-38 (P1)

[CAnnoneer]

It would be nice to know what you guys think of Walther P-38 (P1). E.g.:

1) reliability
2) accuracy
3) serviceability
4) price
5) ammo
6) availability
7) how do they compare to your favorite autoloader

There are all these German military surplusses that surface in large numbers from time to time, so I am wondering if they are any good too. It would be nice to own such a historic design, but I don't want to shell out hundreds of dollars on a useless POS either, as I would like to plink with it, not just keep it lubed in a box.

Many thanks!

 

[gc70]

Try checking the Walther Forum.

I had an ex-police P-1 that was a reliable and accurate pistol. Later P-1s have an extra pin to support the locking block and (I think) heavier slides. The downside, if you want to call it that, to the P-1 is that it is a relatively large, heavy, single-stack 9MM pistol. Oh, and the guns were not originally designed for hollowpoints, so it's best to stick to FMJ ammo for absolute reliability.

If you want concealment, you can find smaller guns. If you want a range/defensive gun, you can find more capacity in other guns. If you just want a well-made gun at a reasonable price, a P-1 in good condition should fit your needs.

How does the P-1 compare to my favorite autoloader? Not too bad considering that I'm comparing it to probably the best combat pistol ever built - the Sig P226.

 

[denfoote]

I have two P1s.
A Maunhrin and a Walther. I shoot the Walther.
The caliber is the ubiquitous 9mm Parabellum.
I never had any problems with mine and it will place rounds where I send them!! I would not try to use +P ammo in it however!! I'm not sure exactly what I paid for mine (It's been awhile), but the $250 range sounds about right. It's an alright range gun, but for serious work, I'd prefer my P5!!

 

[Wags]

I at one time owned 3, now down to 2. Extremely reliable, fairly accurate, very serviceable if you only use FMJ, $250 or less if you shop around, stick with FMJ loads and NO +P's, availiable, stack up ok for a 65 + year old design.

They are a fun little pistol that used to be had under $199. I've never had a jam with any of mine over the years (4). I replaced all new recoil springs and have at it! They are light for there size, and just a fun range gun that can be fairly accurate.

I don't regret owning one.

 

[Onmilo]

There are a whole bunch of P1 pistols floating around Palastinian controlled areas and quite a few in Lebanon.
Limited magazine capacity aside they seem to get the job done on the rare occasions that they are actually used in a shooting in these regions.

For folks in America these can be pretty satisfying fun guns.

 

[Tom Servo]

1) reliability

A friend has one. No problems with ball or most JHPs. Doesn't like Gold Dots, though.

2) accuracy

Nothing to write home about, but good enough for defensive use.

3) serviceability

Not too hard to strip and clean. Easier than, say, a Buckmark...

4) price

Not as cheap as they used to be, which was the real selling-point. If you look, you can find one under $200 online, though. Not really worth much more unless it's a collector's item in pristine condition.

5) ammo

Well, it's a nine. No problems with availability. Just use ball and make sure it likes whatever hollowpoints you plan to use.

6) availability

Pretty ubiquitous, but prices vary.

7) how do they compare to your favorite autoloader

This is where the P-38 fails for me. IMO, terrible ergonomics, lackluster (not bad) accuracy, very gritty trigger (especially the DA, which is way too heavy), far too large for a single-stack nine. Next to my P225, P7 or 75b, no comparison.

Still, it's an interesting gun, and certainly a piece of history. It's not a BAD gun by any stretch, but it just doesn't do anything particularly well.

 

[Moonclip]

I'm happy with mine, ok accuracy, feeds hollowpoints in my example, I like single stack 9's too, easy to get a hold on! I think the prices are good on these as you are getting a historically important pistol from the Walther factory for less than $300.

Gun ejects the "wrong" way though!

 

[PX15]

Walther P1

I've always liked the P38/P1's. I think of the old Walthers as classy and underpriced on todays market. Almost anything Walther made then was high quality in my opinion.

I purchased a P1 from wwwImpactGun.com a couple of years ago for (I think) $199.00. The pistol came appearing new and unfired, but the test target said otherwise. A second magazine (new, still in wrapping), used holster and cleaning kit came with it.

I was fortunate in that my P1 was one with both the hex bolt in frame, and had the "fat slide" conversion, with the excellent white dot sights.

After I cleaned it, just because, I found it to be an excellent pistol. For me it was very accurate and 100% reliable with ball ammo, with the exception of Wally World white box, which also can cause problems in several other of my 9mm plinkers. In my estimation it was 100% ammo problem, NOT pistol problem. I've found wwwb to vary in quality big time. Some lots are great, some sheer merde.

In todays firearm market there are many other pistols available that offer advantages over the P1, but none in the price range with the quality and history of the P1. If you want a plinker, quasi-informal target pistol just to enjoy, the P1 is perfect. I think a P1 in the nightstand is another excellent use of the fine pistol. To be honest, , the P1 is too large for concealed carry, but as a general purpose pistol it can be excellent. I am very pleased with my P1, and I plink with it every now and then. It will be a keeper for me, and at around $200 I think it was a steal.

I like old firearms with a history, that's why I own and enjoy several old Colt revolvers too. The Cobra's and Detective Specials, as with the Walther P1 are just, IMO, representative of older quality firearms that bring me pleasure, and are great values.

Try one, you'll like it.

Best Wishes.
JP

 

[armoredman]

How about the new Federal Expanding Full Metal Jacket ammo? I like the P38 I had years ago, and wouldn't feel underarmed with one again, especially with EFMJ ammo.

 

[cocojo]

Walther is a great pistol my P1 shoots right on the money. Much more accurate than I could have expected. It also shoots HP's with no problem. My P-5 is even better. Walthers are really great pistols. I own enough of them and love them all.

 

[PX15]

P1 Walthers

Cocojo - Heresy!

You CAN NEVER own enough firearms!

Please go take:

1 Zoloft
1 Glass of Metamusel
1 Nap

I think when you wake up (and go to the john) you will have a new perspective on life and realize you just simply DO NOT have enough Walthers in particular or firearms in general.

BAD THINKING, BAD THINKING.....

Best Wishes.
PX

 

[BamBam-31]

I've got a P1 with the reinforcing hex bolt. I can hit a 10" steel gong at 50 yds. about 7/10 times with mine, so I'd say it's plenty accurate. I've only shot ball out of it (AE, Fiocchi), so I can't really say about hollow points. I think it's a great plinker, a bit of history and a lot of gun for the money. Sorta like an SKS (although the Mak is more the SKS of pistols).

 

[BigG]

They are well worth the price, especially if they are in like new condition, which most of the ones I've seen are. Beats paying a hefty premium for some of the late WWII junk P38s with questionable safety. This gun you can shoot and get the mystique out of your system without taking out a mortgage. Mine has a good single action trigger and it stays back, unlike a SIG that you have to take up 1/2" of slack each time before you get to the "real" SA pull.

 

[PX15]

Walther P1's

AND, The newer P1's have better sights than the old P38's. If you get a P1 with the hex bolt and fat slide conversion you have the best of the original P38 design, corrected for slide weakness, and the hex bolt apparently strengthens the alloy frame.

Everyone who appreciates this type firerm should have a Walther P1 in their inventory. The surplus P1's are imo one of the best firearm bargains on the market.

If I could only have one pistol for home, or self defense, (not concealed carry) I would much prefer the P1 over any modern pistol in the same price range.

Quality firearm, very reasonably priced.

Getcha' One.

JP

 

[HankB]

The P-38 was a rather innovative pistol when it was introduced over 60 years ago. It was generally more reliable (especially under adverse conditions) with issue ball ammo than the Lugers it was replacing, and it was cheaper to make, too.

The ergonomics (grip angle) don't suit me well, but that's entirely personal opinion - YMMV.

Workmanship of wartime P-38s varies tremendously - those made by slave labor in particular are pretty poor. Postwar versions (P1) look pretty decent.

Today, it's a rather dated design, with little of the "classic" appeal of a 1911 or a BHP. I can see having one to fill out your collection - especially if it's cheap - but only a real fan of the gun (or a Walther devotee, some of whom love the brand with an almost religious zeal) will spend serious money for one of these today.

 

[alamo]

I can see having one to fill out your collection - especially if it's cheap - but only a real fan of the gun (or a Walther devotee, some of whom love the brand with an almost religious zeal) will spend serious money for one of these today.

That's my situation. I got my P-1 from SOG a few years ago for $189. Alas, it was not one of the like-new ones you can get today for a bit more, but it is in very good condition. Wouldn't have paid much more for one but since they were so cheap, why not? A nice addition to the collection.

 

[StrikeEagle]

I have one... I shoot it occasionally just for the oldtime feeling.

It's clunky, though... I think of it more as a historical artifact than weapon. If you're into history or just REALLY love classic firearms, go for it... the prices are right.

StrikeEagle

 

[gopguy]

P38, getting a matching one important

The one thing I have noted as of late is many of the P38/P1 pistols coming in lately are renumbered. That is you will see numbers struck out and the gun renumbered. This means it was assembled from gun parts of pistols that broke....in other words rode hard and worn out. I have seen catastrophic failures with these guns. Look for one that is matching, the best are indeed the later ones with the reinforcing pin. Here is a picture of a nasty failure that was posted on gunboards. Luckily the shooter was not hurt, but yikes! You will note this is one that came from Century Arms......I have noted many renumbered ones with their import stamp. I look for the earlier Interarms imported guns when looking for one of these Walthers.

As said earlier stick to ball ammo, nothing hot. I have had good luck with Winchester white box as available from Walmart. Tim

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=103868

http://www.gunboards.com/forums/uploaded/konigstigerii/200552223056_P5020051.jpg


http://www.gunboards.com/forums/uploaded/konigstigerii/200552223114_P5020052.jpg

 

[Onmilo]

Renumbered guns,,,,,,,
If a qualified arms depot did the work, worry not, the gun is just as safe as a brand new out of the factory box blaster.
German small arms rebuild depots are some of the best in the world.

If an importer cobbled the gun together out of whatever parts remained in the bottom of the shipping container,,,,,,,,,,,caveat emptor!

 

[HankB]

You will note this is one that came from Century Arms......

If an importer cobbled the gun together out of whatever parts remained in the bottom of the shipping container,,,,,,,,,,,caveat emptor!

On some boards, Century Arms' staff is rumored to consist of a group of enraged drunken monkeys . . .

 

[New_geezer]

The best site for P-38/P-1 information I've found is at.

http://www.p38forum.com/

They'll tell you all about all the arcana surrounding the pistol and its many variants. It will also tell you significant markings to look for.

I own a P-1 from about 1982. It has the hex bolt reinforceing the alloy frame and all the improved parts. It shows holster wear and has the marks showing it's been several times to the armory for servicing, which didn't really amount to anything more than replacing the springs from what I can tell. All the major components have the original serial number on them and all match. The only way to adjust for aim is in the front sight, which can be moved left or right. The front site will have a number engraved on it 1,2,3,or 4. This indicates the height of the front sight, 4 being tallest. My P-1 shot very low when I got it, although replacement sights are available, My gun was for fun plinking so I just carefully ground some off, tested and repeated and now it shoots pretty much dead on. I also used the whitest nail polish I could find and highlighted the front sight and either side of the rear notch which greatly helped my poor eyes.

I really enjoy shooting this pistol and will at some time buy another. Tho the models with the hex bolt are the best for heavy use, any of them will generally stand up to the standard rounds of which the Winchester White Box ammo is the best example. You really don't want to use P+ or heavy hand loads thru these guns on a regular basis. The heavy loads can over time actually cause the alloy frame to stretch. Also the heavy loads can cause the slide to crack, mostly on the earliest versions. The hex bolt on the later versions won't cure all ills but it does usually indicate a pistol that has had all the improvements.

The P-38 (and P-1) were designed as military sidearms. They are easy to field strip and clean, no special tools required. They were designed for ball ammo but you may find other types that work (mine hates all Remington ammo). There is a certain looseness about them that allows them to tolerate a lot of dirt and still function but because of that they are not super accurate. You will not likely be able to shoot quarters at 25 yards, but pop cans will meet their doom.

Since I think you're from California - Turners just had them on sale for $269, they regularly sell for $299. It includes two magazines, a holster and the original cleaning kit. I was buying a different handgun already or I'd have picked one up. They had one from I think about 1960 - I couldn't say for sure as there was no slide date which means it may have been unissued or possibly used in West Berlin.

If this is going to be your only gun then quite likely you'd be happier with something else, probably more modern. But I think these guns are great and easily worth the money. About the only ammo cheaper than WWB 9mm, is a 22. It's a good conversation piece too at the range especially for folks who've never seen one, so if you buy, take the time to learn about it.

 

[Johnny Guest]

From a limited base of knowledge - - -

I've owned one - - marked "ac 40," from Walther, VG to EXC condition, which I got in late 1960s and kept for about five years. At the time, I was doing a minor collection of representative WW II military sidearms. And I've fired several others over the years. My experience is pretty close to that given above by Erick F. Point by point:

1) reliability Flawless with the two good magazines I had. A third, rather beat-up, was less so. This was predicated on use of several types of FMJ ammo.

2) accuracy Very good. Impressive at long range (100+ yards.)

3) serviceability See 1) above. I was influenced by a story told by a teacher in my high school - firing pin wings sheared off and the gun went full auto. Therefore, I always controlled the hammer when applying the thumb safety.

4) price I paid a reasonable amount back then - - A bargain, really, given how nice my example was, but that has nothing to do with current prices.

5) ammo See 1) above. Only JHP ammo available back then was Norma, with a LOT of bare lead exposed, and some very early Super vel 90 gr, with a very short overall length. My pistol was NOT reliable with either one. As to factory FMJ ammo, I shot Norma, then-current Winchester 116 gr and Remington 124 gr commercial, WW II vintage Win SMG ammo, Canadian surplus, various European surplus, and my own fmj handloads which closely duplicated factory COL. All worked fine. I has some issues with lead bullet handloads, but I don't count these for purposes of this reply.

6) availability Again, that was then and this is now.

7) how do they compare to your favorite autoloader It was great for range use and varmint and small game hunting. It pointed surprisingly well, given that I was heavily into DA revolver shooting at the time . It carried all right in a holster, but was quite thick through he slide, compared to the 1911 Colt, Browning Hi Power, and S&W M39. I could NOT carry it comfortably IWB, either in holster or bare - - The safety/hammer drop lever gouged me badly. The heel clip mag catch made for slow reloading compared to my other service type autoloaders. For real-life carry, I greatly preferred the other three pistols mentioned.

Best,
Johnny