I am posting this so that I will can refer to it as seems helpful. The gist of it is that the less you know about a particular subject you are learning, the more you think you know. Conversely, the more you truly do know about a subject that you have studied for a lifetime, the less it seems to you that you know of all that there is to know. On the low end, it is sometimes expressed as "Truly stupid people don't know that they are." On the high end, I like to think of it as the humility of the wise. I wish that I had this new thread to refer to some weeks ago when I saw a comment to the effect that "Lee's low prices attract less intelligent people." Not saying that isn't true, BTW.
The Dunning-Kruger Effect
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buck460XVR
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Let me give you an example. When I was considering starting reloading, I seriously considered buying a Lee Loader in 9mm, thinking to myself, "I won't even need to buy a rubber mallet! I can pound it with the heel of my boot!" But being a clever lad I bought a Breech Lock Hand Press kit instead. Two years later...
SFreed
Member
I blame the internet. Everybody's an expert, because they can spell google.
There are also things called Confirmation Bias and self-justification.
That is, if someone pays more money for something, they want to justify to themselves (and everyone else they know) that it was money well-spent, so they log in their memory bank every time they hear something bad about a brand they dislike, and repress the memory anytime they hear something negative about their brand of choice.
Of course the same holds true in reverse. No one likes to admit they got hosed buying a cheap product, just like no one likes to admit they overpaid for something for little or no gain. To me, if it works for you and you like it, rock on.
That is, if someone pays more money for something, they want to justify to themselves (and everyone else they know) that it was money well-spent, so they log in their memory bank every time they hear something bad about a brand they dislike, and repress the memory anytime they hear something negative about their brand of choice.
Of course the same holds true in reverse. No one likes to admit they got hosed buying a cheap product, just like no one likes to admit they overpaid for something for little or no gain. To me, if it works for you and you like it, rock on.
Very insightful. An example of that is the ease of googling, say "reload 9mm with Berry's 115 grain plated roundnose and Titegroup", and thinking you have learned something. Not that I ever did that.
Indeed it does work both ways. I love my Lee scale, and would never admit that I should have bought a MyWeigh in the first place, which BTW I swear is better than the Lee because it cost five times as much.
Jesse Heywood
Member
As a corollary does this mean that since you can't fix stupid that intelligence is curable?
Brilliant! Who would have thought that reloaders were philosophers. A perverse twisting of the D-K Effect into some perverse semblance of the Law of Unintended Consequences is the following. I started reloading so I could shoot more. Now I shoot so I can reload more. Is D-K making me think I am a better reloader than a shooter?
Knowledge is a curse. Ignorance brings peace and happiness because I don’t know about all the awful things around, which will in time catch up to me. 
Luckily, I am also too incompetent to know that I am incompetent, so I can happily express my opinions without feeling stupid. Self consciousness is over rated anyway.
Three cheers for the blissful ignorant!
Hip-Hip Hooray! , Hip-Hip Hooray! , Hip-Hip Hooray!
Instead of being upset over things, let's get back to killing brain cells through beer drinking.
Luckily, I am also too incompetent to know that I am incompetent, so I can happily express my opinions without feeling stupid. Self consciousness is over rated anyway. Three cheers for the blissful ignorant!
Hip-Hip Hooray! , Hip-Hip Hooray! , Hip-Hip Hooray!
Instead of being upset over things, let's get back to killing brain cells through beer drinking.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
If it's true the older I get the less I know?
Guess I better stop answering reloading questions then.
I must be getting really dumb and unqualified after all these years.
rc
Guess I better stop answering reloading questions then.
I must be getting really dumb and unqualified after all these years.
rc
WestKentucky
Member
im keeping that comment...seems very fitting for my place of employment...thanks Jesse Heywood
gamestalker
member
Back when I started reloading, those that were interested in the hobby either
(A) Spent many hours reading and applying the information hands on,
or
(B) Fortunate enough to know someone that was willing to mentor them
What we didn't have was You tube videos that would allow someone to blow right past some of the most important facts, thus opening the door to potential disaster, as we do now days. It also seems that since the inception of the internet that, more and more individuals are engaging in hobbies that they other wise wouldn't have, and then approaching it with a serious lack of respect, and a lack of interest in safety protocol. Many only want to know how to adjust the die and use the scale, and then jump in with both feet, with little respect or regard for what they consider as unnecessary time consuming steps. Then when things go catastrophic, they're left wondering what went wrong after picking up the pieces of their fingers and firearms, and blaming it on a tool or firearm. I've taught numerous individuals how to reload, and in all honesty, I've seen at least half of those give up and walk away from it because they feel it involves more time and knowledge than they're willing to invest.
GS
(A) Spent many hours reading and applying the information hands on,
or
(B) Fortunate enough to know someone that was willing to mentor them
What we didn't have was You tube videos that would allow someone to blow right past some of the most important facts, thus opening the door to potential disaster, as we do now days. It also seems that since the inception of the internet that, more and more individuals are engaging in hobbies that they other wise wouldn't have, and then approaching it with a serious lack of respect, and a lack of interest in safety protocol. Many only want to know how to adjust the die and use the scale, and then jump in with both feet, with little respect or regard for what they consider as unnecessary time consuming steps. Then when things go catastrophic, they're left wondering what went wrong after picking up the pieces of their fingers and firearms, and blaming it on a tool or firearm. I've taught numerous individuals how to reload, and in all honesty, I've seen at least half of those give up and walk away from it because they feel it involves more time and knowledge than they're willing to invest.
GS
Sad but true. The reloading vendors don't help by suggesting in their promotional material that it's easy. It is only easy if you do it wrong. I don't mind admitting that I got started because I thought it would be fun. It isn't fun, it's work, but it is satisfying work. Many times I have offered to people I met at the range or in social situations to come over to the house and spend a day learning the basics of reloading. The usual response is "A whole DAY? You must be kidding! How hard can it be?"
gonoles_1980
Member
I have fun reloading (ok, cleaning the primer holes isn't that fun), but the rest is. I like to make beer, it's fun, but it takes a whole day, then a few weeks to take another half day to bottle. Anything worthwhile times time.
Now, I'm the exception to the theory that the OP posted. I'm dumb and know I'm dumb.
Now, I'm the exception to the theory that the OP posted. I'm dumb and know I'm dumb.
forestswin
Member
That's the exciting part!!!!!
And then there is how much you do not know, that you don't know
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
And even more exciting!
How much more you DO or DID know that you forget in advancing age!
rc
How much more you DO or DID know that you forget in advancing age!
rc
Interesting thread. I know know that there's an official name for what my Father would tell me 40 years ago.
He'd say " Son, the more you know about something, the more you realize your don't know that much about it "
Another famous Dad quote long these lines would be " he knows just enough to be dangerous ".
Gotta love Dad.
He'd say " Son, the more you know about something, the more you realize your don't know that much about it "
Another famous Dad quote long these lines would be " he knows just enough to be dangerous ".
Gotta love Dad.
Perhaps someone will benefit from this confession. I revisited recently all the loads I developed two years ago in light of what I think I know now. Taking extra care in bullet seating depth calculations and the resulting OAL targets. Reloading is easy, right? Ha!
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