mljdeckard
Member
I worked for (put those flamethrowers on safe,) America Online for a couple of years. (I hated them, they hated me, I don't work there anymore, and the place I worked is closing as AOL is pretty much going out of business as they knew it.) Right before I was hired, two guys were fired for exchanging guns from one trunk to another after work, it was caught on camera. They were fired for violating a policy which they read, and signed that they understood it and agreed to it, that there were no guns allowed on premises.
I was split on the issue for a while, because, while I am also a 'gun person', they knew, understood, agreed to, and violated the rules. They didn't HAVE to violate the rules. There was plenty of space to park on public streets, and not violate the company's policy by parking in their controlled areas. (That's what I did, I parked on the street, and left it under the seat.)
They sued, and I made contact with the attorney handling the case for them. I asked him what the legal basis for this case is. He replied:
"Our theory in AOL was that Utah public policy manifest in Utah's
Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms (Art I, sec 6) and statutes
(which do not prohibit guns in the workplace) is clear and substantial and
therefore overrides employer policies. The Utah Supreme Court didn't buy
our argument, so we are introducing legislation this legislative session to
make it even clearer."
And while I had the option at AOL to NOT park on property, I have also worked other places where they had a similar policy and I DID have to park on property.
I have also mentioned a ridiculous policy I have dealt with in Nevada, I always stay at The Luxor, and I called ahead to ask them what their policy was on locking my gun in my car in their protected parking during my stay. They 'required' me to instead carry it cased through the casino floor to the security desk to check it in. (I didn't realize that the desk was on the gaming floor, I NEVER would have asked or carried it through the floor.)
I have come to a couple of personal conclusions, but not total resolution. First of all, while an employer may hold interest and liability with what happens on their property, they do NOT hold the same at the convenience store I stop at ON THE WAY HOME FROM WORK. They may be able to sigh with relief that their liability is eased by the fact there are 'no guns' on property, but this, in return, makes me uneasy when I have to stop for milk and gas on the way home at 0200 in The Holy City of Ogden.
They have these laws ONLY to limit their own liability. They aren't really concerned with what people do in the confines of their own vehicles. They never have authority to SEARCH your vehicle. THEREFORE, I have adopted a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy for taking my gun to work. I keep it under the seat, keep my mouth shut, and what they don't know won't hurt them. If I witness an act on company property which I would normally act to prevent, I would sit tight and call the police. (I would not pull until the point where I saw that a job isn't useful to a dead person.) I would later testify that I WOULD HAVE been in a position to prevent a bad event, if the company had allowed me too. The liability chain goes both ways.
My conflict comes from the fact that I often go on military posts as well. While crime is VERY low on post, and the access and security is tightly controlled, I STILL have to get from the post to home. And while I'm not versed in ALL of the circumstances and ways your car might be searched on post, I know the MPs have no sense of humor at all about sneaking weapons past the checkpoint. If I ever DID get nailed for carrying on post, I would NOT be explaining myself in a Utah court.
I was split on the issue for a while, because, while I am also a 'gun person', they knew, understood, agreed to, and violated the rules. They didn't HAVE to violate the rules. There was plenty of space to park on public streets, and not violate the company's policy by parking in their controlled areas. (That's what I did, I parked on the street, and left it under the seat.)
They sued, and I made contact with the attorney handling the case for them. I asked him what the legal basis for this case is. He replied:
"Our theory in AOL was that Utah public policy manifest in Utah's
Constitutional Right to Keep and Bear Arms (Art I, sec 6) and statutes
(which do not prohibit guns in the workplace) is clear and substantial and
therefore overrides employer policies. The Utah Supreme Court didn't buy
our argument, so we are introducing legislation this legislative session to
make it even clearer."
And while I had the option at AOL to NOT park on property, I have also worked other places where they had a similar policy and I DID have to park on property.
I have also mentioned a ridiculous policy I have dealt with in Nevada, I always stay at The Luxor, and I called ahead to ask them what their policy was on locking my gun in my car in their protected parking during my stay. They 'required' me to instead carry it cased through the casino floor to the security desk to check it in. (I didn't realize that the desk was on the gaming floor, I NEVER would have asked or carried it through the floor.)
I have come to a couple of personal conclusions, but not total resolution. First of all, while an employer may hold interest and liability with what happens on their property, they do NOT hold the same at the convenience store I stop at ON THE WAY HOME FROM WORK. They may be able to sigh with relief that their liability is eased by the fact there are 'no guns' on property, but this, in return, makes me uneasy when I have to stop for milk and gas on the way home at 0200 in The Holy City of Ogden.
They have these laws ONLY to limit their own liability. They aren't really concerned with what people do in the confines of their own vehicles. They never have authority to SEARCH your vehicle. THEREFORE, I have adopted a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy for taking my gun to work. I keep it under the seat, keep my mouth shut, and what they don't know won't hurt them. If I witness an act on company property which I would normally act to prevent, I would sit tight and call the police. (I would not pull until the point where I saw that a job isn't useful to a dead person.) I would later testify that I WOULD HAVE been in a position to prevent a bad event, if the company had allowed me too. The liability chain goes both ways.
My conflict comes from the fact that I often go on military posts as well. While crime is VERY low on post, and the access and security is tightly controlled, I STILL have to get from the post to home. And while I'm not versed in ALL of the circumstances and ways your car might be searched on post, I know the MPs have no sense of humor at all about sneaking weapons past the checkpoint. If I ever DID get nailed for carrying on post, I would NOT be explaining myself in a Utah court.