The Ethics of Refinishing

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Skofnung

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I am in posession of an old S&W Model 10, or M&P as it were... I believe it was made around 1948.

Anyway, it is a tight shooter with a smooth as silk action. A fun shooter to be sure.

The finish on the gun is all but worn off and in lieu of bright blue, we have a nice plum brown with a few "uneven" areas where half a century of honest holster wear should be expected. Carried much, shot little as the saying goes.

The question is, should I refinish this old piece? I would like to put a "modern" corrosion resistant finish on it so that I could worry less about rust in the hot and humid (or cold and humid) climate that is Northern Florida.

If yes, what would you reccomend as a finish and who would do it?

If no, why not?

Thanks for the help.
 
I just went through the same thing with an M&P of almost exactly the same age. I struggled with the issue for a while and went ahead and got a factory reblue.

My reason for doing this was influenced by my intention to keep this gun for a long time. I therefore want a good finish simply to keep it from rusting in the coming decades. If I ever do sell my M&P, only strictest of purists in 2050 will care if what will be a century-old gun wears its original finish, especially if I can show written proof the reblue was done by the factory.

I think there are many good reasons to keep the original finish on a valuable collectors piece, on something that has great sentimental value to you, or on something that will spend most of its time in a safe. If, however, you intend it to be a "working gun", you might consider refinishing to be part of a good maintanence regimen.

If you do decide to refinish your Smith, I highly recommend sending it to the factory.
 
I dislike collectors who hang on to guns they won't refinish when their guns have no historical value and those who won't shoot firearms that still have a decent supply of parts left on the market.:barf:

There are way better investment vehicles out there than firearms, especially since most investments can't be made illegal after a couple of bad political decades like the value of firearms is risk to.

If I could time travel into the future, say 200 years, and I wanted to, (and still could), buy a "vintage" S&W M10 M&P here's how that trip would go:

Say I can choose between two mechanically identical M&Ps with good lockwork built in 1953. One has 50% original bluing left. The other has been factory refinished six times but looks like the day it left the last assembly station. Both have papers showing chain of ownership and all the finish work done.

I'm taking the refinished one. I am not overpaying for patina, I want the one that is a shooter because owners who care enough to refinish a working gun kept it going because it worked and was accurate etc. The refinished one, (presuming it wasn't refinished due to abuse or neglect) is a better buy for a shooter, but not an investor.

Then I might go get it NP3d or the equivalent to ensure it might be around another 200 years.

"All original" said for a gun that isn't of any particular note or hasn't the cachet of hand fitted and matched numbered parts, is just another way to get suckered into paying too much for a weapon that isn't rare. It ain't a Registered Magnum or anything we're discussing.
 
My 40 year old Python is in excellent condition. I bought it NIB in `65 and carried it for 20 years as a duty gun. In `85, I was forced, kicking and screaming, to transition to a Sig.

After 20 years of use, the Python needed refinishing. Some people advised against it but I decided to have it done. I contacted Colt and was surprised at the rude reception I got.

A gunsmith friend offered to re-blue and said if I was not satisfied, there'd be no charge. I let him have it and his work rivaled the Colt Royal blue that was originally used on Pythons:

Guns0008.jpg

The grips are Mustangs but I still have the originals. I think it's worthwhile to refinish a gun, especially if it has some meaning to the owner. I have no intention of ever selling this. Collecters say leave them alone but I do what I want with my guns,

John

PS: The line on the photo, just below the Colt emblem, is a reflection and not an imperfection in the finish.
 
Collecters say leave them alone but I do what I want with my guns,

Collectors are more like fashionistas. Provenance, documentation, ephemera... None of this translates to anything so vital as the trust a man can develop over the course of 40 years carrying a piece like this.

I commend your thinking.
 
Good points all.

I would like to put a "modern" corrosion resistant finish on it so that I could worry less about rust in the hot and humid (or cold and humid) climate that is Northern Florida.
Click to expand...
How about an old time corrosion resistant finish?
Doesn't S&W still offer nickel refinishing?
 
I think on something that isn't a collectors piece or has sentimental value, a modern finish (or new 'old style' finish) is a great way to breath life into old firearms, whatever they may be :cool:
 
There are way better investment vehicles out there than firearms, especially since most investments can't be made illegal after a couple of bad political decades like the value of firearms is risk to.



I totally don't agree! What , pray tell would be a better investment; a 1 oz. 20 dollar gold piece or that first generation Colt SAA that cost $20? Only real estate is a better investment than a quality (as in lots of craftsmanship) firearm!
Don't like that example, then I could give you 100000 other examples of guns going up in value. You must be super naieve to believe a law some how makes the actual cash value on contraband go down!:rolleyes:
 
Gordon said:
You must be super naieve to believe a law some how makes the actual cash value on contraband go down!:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

What the gun is actually worth doesn't matter, if the laws are suddenly changed, and you get screwed into some government buy-back scheme, like the Aussies did.

It will never happen here in the U.S.? Maybe not. Still, you are running that risk, even if it's a slight one.


J.C.
 
Collectability is largely a function of rarity and demand. There are many, many old guns out there, true antiques, that aren't worth a significant amount. Take a look at any top break .32 revolver. These things are from the turn of the century, but typically, you can get them for cheap.

Just because a gun is old, or a noteworthy brand doesn't mean it has any real collector value.

Now, if the finish is mint, and you still have the box, it might be worth something in 50-100 years, but don't count on it.

Also, remember that once upon a time, most guns were practically custom pieces anyway, with very short production runs. Any modern gun, produced in the last 20-30 years in any real quantity will not have collector value for maybe a few hundred years, just because quantities are so great and survivability so long.
 
I believe S&W contracts out for their nickle finish. There was a recent thread on the S&W forum showing extremely poor results.

I have never seen a S&W factory reblue that wasn't great looking.

I'm in favor of doing what ever you want with your gun. Don't expect others to appreciate my decision, but don't really care either. I'm the one opening my wallet.
 
Refinishing an antique can be a bad mistake, because it substantially reduces its value on the collector's market, and for practical purposes they usually don't have a "user value." Part of the reason for this is that modern refinishing methods are different then those used in earlier times, so the new finish would be out of place.

Guns that were made later - especially during the second half of the 20th century - are a different matter. There is a good chance that a factory refinish will employ the same process that was used when the gun was made. Also these guns are usually practical users that have modest collector's value. To the degree that they do, often requires that they be in original mint condition, and sometime "as new, in original box with papers."

Skofnung's revolver is a "pre-model 10" that may or may not be one of the last made with S&W's famous and desirable long-action. If it were in mint condition collectors would beat a path to his door. As it is, they wouldn't.

Since I like these guns I'd send the revolver to S&W for a factory refinish. This would have nothing too do with collector value and everything to do with my personal likes. However if I lived in Florida I might opt to have it Parkerized (relatively inexpensive) for better corrosion protection, or have it electroless hard chrome plated for even better rust resistance.
 
Thanks everyone. I think I would like to get it hard chromed and add a set of black rubber or horn grips and a silver Tyler-T grip.
 
see, i read this and thought "the question isn't whether or not to refinish, the question is whether or not to hard chrome instead of blue." looks like you've worked out a solution :cool:

not sure what i'll do down the road with my model 13. right now, i think it's beautiful with the original finish and some holster wear (and, yes, some slight damage where the state trooper who carried it was apparently laying on the ground o_O).
 
I'd refinish it... it's not like your going to destroy any serious value anyway... you'll enhance the looks and protect the gun.

Hard chrome is a superb finish for wear resistance, but not the best for corrosion resistance. I understand that between Florida's high humidity and possibly corrosive perspiration you want to protect the gun... hard chrome would be good, but a finish like NP3 will offer even better corrosion resistance, though less wear resistance.

As with all things in life, each choice brings consequent compromise in some aspect(s).

If the gun isn't a carry gun and your perspiration isn't corrosive (some guys are very unlucky in that regard!) I think your plan for hard chrome is a good one, as would be rebluing, though it ranks low for wear and corrosion resistance.

Birdsong's Black-T would protect exceptionally well, but you have to be a fan of plastic coated revolvers to appreciate it... :rolleyes:
 
Refinishing one the RIGHT way..

Hello
I actively searched for a K-22 for MANY years in Nickel finish to ONLY find over priced COLLECTOR ones out there. The Dealers that had them THOUGHT they were GOLD..The finish that S&W used on these was a brushed Nickel , and look alot like a stainless gun to me. I came across the revolver shown, in a shop on consignment. It was a Blued model, and the finish was well worn. The fact of the matter was the action was tight as a vault so I concluded it had been carried more than shot. The grip's shown are a set of Rare "Roper" grips and they were on it as well. These grips are worth double what the seller was asking for the revolver so I bought it. At first I was going to just shoot it, and the more I looked at it,and let the finish remain as ALL my revolvers get shot.. I do NOT have any safe queens & The more I thought.. This is the ONE to have refinished in Nickel, just the way I wanted one. I sent it to Fords in Florida and was SUPER impressed with there work. They are a Mom & Pop operation, and I asked for them to take there time, and do the Best they could. They even restamped the Factory trademark and this job is one of the nicest ones I have seen. I have shown it to several dealers and not "ONE" has mentioned that it has been refinished !and even two said they too have looked for a Factory nickel gun like this for years as well. It is that good of a job, that all these highly critical collectors could NOT tell the difference. ;) They also do all the work for Cylinder & Slide and have a GUARANTEE on all there work. I also saw above where a responder spoke of a revolver that a guy had ruined that sent it back to S&W and he said it was sent OUT for this.. It was "NOT" that job was done in house at S&W and if that is the style of work they do, I am glad I chose Fords, since they told the guy that owns it to Live with it, as they do not have pparts to replace it nor would NOT refund his money for the shoddy work they did. Here is a link to Fords and I highly recomend them. S&W does NOT guarantee there work and I would be Leary after the job I saw on that other guys Nickel revolver. Lastly, This is YOUR revolver.. Do with it what you want, and MOST that brag about having an original collectible, Have just "ANOTHER" used gun. :rolleyes: I hope this helps, Hammerdown

http://www.fordsguns.com/index1.htm

DSCF5565.jpg

DSCF5437.jpg

61b415e2.jpg

09b03959.jpg
 
Since Hammerdown brought up the subject of stocks/grips, there is one thing you should do before any handgun is refinished.

Be sure the grips fit perfectly, especially if they are not original to the gun.

During the good ol' days when labor was affordable, grip blanks would be put on a frame and then both wood (or whatever) and metal would be worked to a perfect fit. Thereafter the grips would be serial numbered to the frame and sent to one department for finishing while the frame went on to be built into a gun. During final assembly the matching frame and grips would be reunited.

So if the grips you are going to be using aren't a perfect fit, put them on the revolver and polish the frame and grips until they are. Thereafter you can refinish the grips (or send them to Hammerdown for a truly professional job) while the metal parts are being finished. When the matching grips and frame come back together again you'll be glad you took the time and trouble.
 
Matching the Grips...

Hey Fuff
Great idea.. Sadly the ONES shown were modified to FIT the K-22 I bought. Not by me, but someone along the way, and this also allows me to use them on the revolver they were intended for the mighty-N-frame.. I also agree with your thoughts about how S&W USED to match the gun & Grips back in the day. I tend to believe part of that was the revolver's varied a tad bit in size, as most were HAND finished after they were forged back then, and this too could have been a method to there madness.There also was PRIDE back then, and this seems to have SLIPPED away like all other good things today. Best regards, Hammerdown.

DSCF3885.jpg
 
Hammerdown, that 28 makes me want to cry. I had a 4" 28-2 that I traded off several years ago in a moment of insanity. Those grips are beautiful.

Please, tell me about NP3, I know nothing about it.

Thanks fellas.
 
What did it cost to get that gun plated? It's a beautiful job - and do you have the number/address of the shop that did it?
 
Fords refinishing

Hello Rick
SEE the TOP of the K-22 Pictures Left side for a LINK to Fords refinishing. There you will find a price list, along with pictures and testimonials of customers guns. ;) Regards, Hammerdown
 
Skofnung,

I sent you an e-mail with the Robar site and a photo of my Sig 220 with NP3. The NP3 is gray/silver colored,

John
 
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