The fallacy of the 1-1 1/2 MOA hunting rifle

[Matt G]

Jack, if your load is 4" high at 100 yards, how high above the line of sight is the bullet at the top of that arc before it descends to your point blank range? Keep in mind that it's still rising as it passes through that 100 yard target. My guess is that you've got a midrange trajectory of more than 5" above the line of sight, and that's 'wayy off, considering that most shots, even for western hunters, will be inside of 200 yards.

Also, what bullet are you loading at what velocity? 4" high at a hundred with most '06 loads will hit zero a little further out.

 

[hps1]

Also, what bullet are you loading at what velocity? 4" high at a hundred with most '06 loads will hit zero a little further out.

Using the following calculator:

http://http://www.norma.cc/htm_files/javapagee.htm

and:
165 Gr. Failsafe @ 2790 fps (Win. published vel.)
Trajectory.......... B]5mph[/B] full value wind drift
50 yd = +1.9"
100 = +4
158 yds = +4.7"
200 = +3.9.................2"
262 = Zero
300 = -3.1.................5"
400 = -19.5...............10"
500 = -47.3...............17"

180 gr Failsafe @ 2750 fps
Trajectory................5 mph full value wind drift
50 yd +1.8"
100 yd + 4
158 yds +4.7"
200 yd + 4....................2"
270 yd Zero
300 yd -2.4...................4"
400 yd -17....................8"
475 yd -35"
500 yd -42"...................13"
525 yd -50"

On the 180 gr. data, note the difference in elevation that just a 25 yd error in range estimation at 500 yds. can make on your point of impact, not to mention a very light 5 mph breeze.

While fun to play with, the calculators will usually get you on paper, but should be verified in the field with one's own rifle/ammo combination at the various ranges.

Regards,
hps

 

[hossdaniels]

oh come on, yall know its fun to check your zero and have 3 shots touching.
Do you need it? no way. but its still fun.

 

[30-06 lover]

If you can shoot 1.5 off the bench at 100 yards, you can kill out to 300 yards. If you can't get to 300 yards to your prey, or closer, you suck. I hunt sage flats in CO and have yet to shoot past 300. I worry more about consistently than super accuracy. Back in the day a 3 inch rifle was considered to be a great shooter. Ever see the bucks they brought in? I always hear hunting was easier back then, but I don't buy it. They were better hunters. Deer have been prey since the beginning of time, so they knew to avoid the human predators too. Limit your shots to 300 yards and worry about shooting consistently "good" groups. We don't have to be snipers when aiming at a 12 inch target.
-Mike

 

[T.R.]

I've taken several dozen mulies with this Glenfield 30-30 carbine. On a good day, I can shoot a 4.5 inch group at 200 yards. No matter as most of my shots have been taken at 150 yards or less.

A big muley has a lethal target zone the size of a grapefruit. A hit anywhere in this zone equals a very dead deer.

You can carry a heavy bolt action rifle all day for all I care. But in the rough country I hunt, a short carbine is the way to go. In my opinion, hunting ability combined with walking softly outweighs your declared accurasy factors.
TR

 

[BIGJACK]

Hpsi, I was shooting 180 gr btsp, I used the some commercially published data, as being the most versatile for the 30-06, from so long ago I don't even remember where it came from. I did however, confirmed the data using 180 gr Hornady Light Magnums in a Browining SS Stalker, at the range and got.

100yds------- +4inches
200yds------- +2inches
300yds------- -5inches
400yds------- -18inches
500yds------- -36inches

The year that I did this shooting, 3 years ago I killed a good 5x5 at 525 yds and a 6x4 at 490 yds. Two shots for the 5pt, thought I had missed him and he turned to go back in the timber but it was through the lungs and the second, in the shoulder put him down, one shot high in the shoulder for the 6x4.

 

[BIGJACK]

Oh by the way. I have hunted almost all of my 70 years and I do not hunt to be humain, I hunt to kill.

 

[hps1]

Oh by the way. I have hunted almost all of my 70 years and I do not hunt to be humain, I hunt to kill.

My first deer hunt was in 1952, so our experience has been quite similar in longevity, yet has led us to two different views on the sport, and that's all right. Not saying the long shots cannot be made, and for that matter, should not be made if one is comfortable with making a good shot.

Spent some time on an Army rifle team and then shot HP rifle competition out to 1000 yards for 13 years more, so am quite confident in my ability to hit the x ring at any known distance within 1000 yds. on paper targets. My personal experience in hunting has led me to limit my shots to 250 yards, as previously stated; I am absolutely sure of where my bullet will strike, even if I miss my range estimation a bit at that limit. Beyond that, too many bad things can happen, even after your trigger breaks, and I am not willing to take that risk. JMO.

So long as we each can sleep at night, that's what matters.

Regards,
hps

 

[BIGJACK]

Agreed hps1,

Apparantly you don;t hunt Elk much out of the rut season. I find that I am offered very few shots less than 300yds, which in my opinion is a piece of cake with most any good rifle.

WIth the set up on m;y 06 I simply shoot at the vital spot out to 300 yds and the bullet will hit the kill zone. However, one does much better with a range finder but the old way still works too. You know we shot the sogs long time before we had range finders and we would make our best guess and see where we hit and adjust as required.

 

[hps1]

You are correct. Have had only two opportunities to hunt elk, both during the black powder season, so my range was limited to 100-125 yds. Colorado does not allow scopes or sabots and my 66 yr old eyes had a bit of trouble w/iron sights. Elk do have a very large kill zone, so 300 yds would not be a stretch for me either with a modern scoped rifle.

The only deer I ever lost was a 350 yd shot and the buck was standing broadside. I had an excellent rest but just as the trigger broke,the deer started to walk off. Nothing I could do about it, saw the buck kick like a bucking horse and knew I had fouled up. Managed to track the deer and made mistake #2; watched it closely for signs of life, seeing none, ducked to go under a limb to retrieve the "dead" deer and when I was stooped under the limb, he jumped up and ran off. No chance for a shot and I never did recover that deer. Didn't sleep too well that night. Prior to that day, I considered a 300-400 yd shot a piece of cake.

Now coyotes, that's a totally different story.

Regards,
hps