The "harmless traditional six-shooter"

[telomerase]

There's a great historical review of the rights of armed citizens by David Kopel at:
http://www.libertarian.co.uk/

It's called "All The Way Down The Slippery Slope". I especially like the part where he mentions that many people now view revolvers as "harmless traditional six-shooters" as opposed to the deadly automatics.

 

[Blueduck]

I spend my entire work week around Police, DA's, Judges, and people convicted of felonies and think most folks WAY underestimate all the ways a "PC" gun can make your life easier. Take it for what you will

 

[Nick96]

So Blueduck, to clarify what you are saying. A self defence shooting with a S&W M-10 .38 revolver is typically looked on with more sympathy than the same shooting with a hi-cap Glock 17?

I've often heard it stated that using a bone stock weapon with common factory loaded ammo "looks better" than some customized, race tuned rig with special hand loads. Since you apparently have some first hand experience here, perhaps you could enlighten us further on the merits of "keeping it simple".

 

[355sigfan]

As a cop I can tell you I don't care if you shoot someone with a revolver or a tricked out AR15. So long as the shooting was justified. The only ones that care or blood thirsty lawers. And if you have a good shoot and a good attorney you will be fine. But nothing is absolute. But one thing is for sure if you live in an area that is anti gun and you shoot someone you will be hated no matter what you used.
PAT

 

[Blueduck]

I'm no expert on this stuff and don't pretend to be, just offering my humble opinion from my experiences, but yeah basically what you said regarding shootings is a part of it.

Perfectly possible to have a totally clean shoot with a lazer sighted Bushmaster loaded with handloaded reversed jacketed killbuzz whackamitic bullets. Just as possible to go to prison for a slightly grey shoot with a .22 bolt action. But simple is best and the less you give the other side talk about (or the DA to ponder) the better. People say "We'll I'll just explain I was using "x" because of "Y-Z" or "Show me a case where somebody was convicted because of "x". Well thats not the way it works, it's more subtle...

You won't be saying much (hopefully) when Police are forming there first impression of you on the scene of a shooting, other factors may influence their on the spot decisions and subsequent reports. You won't have much of a chance to explain anything to a DA as he's mulling over reports (or newspaper articles) filled with buzz words like "Assault Weapon" or "high capacity" deciding whether to file charges or not, and you definitly won't be in chambers where all kinds of things are discussed that would never come out in open court. My favorite example of this was when I was trying to get man who molested a 13 year old girl 21 years and had to spend 20 minutes defending how the girl and her mother! dressed to the Judge, even the guys attorney was rolling his eyes trying to change the subject:banghead:

On to more nice (and far more likely) advantages. In Missouri where I live laws on transporting a handgun are really vague and hard to understand. Maybe it should not be but frankly every police officer I know would look at a blued 6" Model 14 just a bit different than a Tec-9 if you were in that "Honest mistake" grey area. Same as above yeah you could go to jail on either but ones gonna make them look at you a lot harder than the other should you make some technical bobble. May be wrong but I'm the same way with knives on my Parole cases. Find one of my cases with a folding "work" knife thats a bit too long I tell him to leave it at home, find the same guy toting a butterfly knife around town he's in trouble.

I think frankly it's also a bit of a help in other peoples perception of you. Carrying a "PC" gun out to car your is less likely to get neighbors talking about you (or even other range members). Easier for folks on the fence gun control wise in your circle (family, friends, employers) to accept and frankly even when at gun shows or new shops I think most tend to treat me a bit better when I ask about seeing a Model 15 target revolver than when I ask to see a Glock.

Nothing against semi-autos I own some and support the right of the people to own them (even with nasty hi-caps and flash suppresors). But yeah as a whole I think life could be simpler being thought of as "Ol Blueduck with his harmless traditional six-shooters" than as "That guy who lives down the road with the arsenal of semi-automatic weapons". YMMV

Best,

 

[355sigfan]

What ever makes you happy. You know your area better than mine. But I don't think most officers would view you differently if you shot the intruder with a nice blued Colt Python or with a Glock 17 or a Nice 1911. I will admit some might blink and eye at the use of a AR15 or AK47. Although this should not be an issue. It may be in your area. Jury pools vary around the nation. I frankly don't put much thought into the weapons PC status. If my area was that liberal I would move. And trust me if the neighbors are anti gun they will hate you no matter what you own. There are some gun owners who are against certian kinds of guns and they would accept you more however. My uncle was like that. I had a very heated arugment with him 10 years ago about the purpose of handguns and so called assault rifles. He thought hunting guns were fine but nothing else. We never much talked after that.

PAT

 

[Blueduck]

Agreed that if by some microscopic chance I was involved in a shooting I'd not mind you as the investigating officer 355, as long as you didn't repeatidly put in your report that my old model 19 was a MAGNUM revolver

 

[Sir Galahad]

Now, 355sigfan, you yourself state here that some areas might question the use of a AR-15 in a self-defense shooting. But look at how many scads of threads on these forums there are where people are advocating the AR over the shotgun for home-defense using some magic potion cartridge. In fact, there's a thread at a site we both know wher a guy is considering using a .308 FAL for home defense and people are agreeing with him. Yeah, round goes through the guy and not only do you have to deal with the possible charges about the perp you killed, but the neighbor's 5 year old daughter as well. I think there are a lot of people on these forums who suggest things like semi-auto centerfire rifles who should know better than that. If you're on a homestead in the boonies, that's one thing. Or your house is solid brick construction over 4x4 beams and oak. But there are far too many people dispensing advice n these things who apply their own personal rules to the broad spectrum. The results can be disasterous.

The question was: Does a "PC" gun make sense? Yes. I would say a shotgun and a revolver is going to be easier to defend the use of than some tricked out AR. I'd say even a stock or lightly modified auto will be accepted. But lightened triggers can be used against people in court. Not everyone can move out of liberal states and even conservative states have liberals entrenched in government. Plus, a little bit of "Don't Tread On Me" radical anti-government type behavior might lead even conservative DAs to look very close at a person.

 

[355sigfan]

Well sir the 308 does have over penetration issues. This can be countered however with carefull ammo seleciton. The 223 however with soft points is less dangerious from the over penertation standpoint than typical pistol jhp's. From purely tactical standpoint the AR15 has many pluses over a shotgun. Now your right political climates vary. In some areas using an AR15 may not be a good idea. A 12 gauge with buckshot is never a bad choice. But if I live in an area liberal enough to judge me by the gun I used rather than the shooting itself I would move.

I would recomend that what ever weapon you use for home defence, you keep it fairly stock. No trigger jobs or deactivating safety's. I think adding lights and nightsights is a good thing and very easy to defend in court. Using weapons that your local PD issues could also be a good idea.
PAT

 

[jc2]

I think Blueduck has the right idea. If I am stopped, I think my nice shiny Vaquero or beat up old "thutty-thutty" is a whole lot less likely to attract negative attention/questions than an "evil black gun" or a AR15--and frankly, I can do just as credible job defending myself with Vaquero or Model 94 as I could with any "black pistol" or AR15.

Unfortunately, sometimes perception (that of the officer, DA, judge and eventually jury) may play a larger factor than the letter of the law--it will definitely be a factor one way or the other. If you walk like a duck, quack like a duck . . . you get the picture. Regardless of why you are dealing with the authorities, you really don't want to be perceived as some sort of "armchair commando" or "wannabe."

 

[popbang]

"Using weapons that your local PD issues could also be a good idea." From 355sigfan

I have read this many times along with use what local police do for ammo, but wouldn't this leave yopu open to being called a "cop want to be" by the lawyers?

 

[J Miller]

I've read all the comments above and agree with a few of them. But one this is for true; my "Traditional Six Shooter", is anything but harmless.

 

[swifter]

I reluctantly concur. A few years back I relegated my 1911 to occasional target work, and keep to hand my S&Ws. Revolvers tend to get seen, IMHO , as a "good guy" gun. Very few folks use logic anymore, just emotion.

Tom

 

[surfinUSA]

The initial reporting of any shooting by the mass media potentially taints every state attorny, judge, or jury looking to see if your shooting was justified.

"Assault weapons", "semi auto machine guns", "magnums, designed with only one purpose, to kill people". Any of these terms sound familiar? I'm sure all of us have read some of this misinformation used to describe the type of gun used in a shooting.

Lets hope that if we ever have to defend our selves that it won't be the day after the mass media has gone crazy over some heinous crime.

The judge, jury, or state attorney, looking at your case can easily be tainted by things they have read or seen on tv that have nothing to do with your case.

 

[Standing Wolf]

It sure must be lonely to be a Libertarian in England!