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The Importance of the Pending Elections [in regards to the future of the 2A]

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by cdk8, Jul 23, 2016.

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How important do you think the election is, in regards to the future of the 2A?

Poll closed Aug 22, 2016.
  1. Critical Importance - The Most Important in history

    107 vote(s)
    69.5%
  2. One of the Most Important, but NOT the single-most important in history

    32 vote(s)
    20.8%
  3. Important, but NOT critically-important

    9 vote(s)
    5.8%
  4. NOT Very Important

    3 vote(s)
    1.9%
  5. NOT Important At All

    3 vote(s)
    1.9%
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  1. cdk8

    cdk8 Member

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    A friend and mentor of mine who's about 40 years older than me feels with the upcoming elections that the stakes are higher than they have ever been.

    So I am curious...
    In regards to the future of the Second Amendment, how important* do you think the upcoming elections are?
    (*that is, the potential impact of an election outcome where anti-gun candidates win, with regards to how much they would threaten the future of the 2A, increasing the importance of the overall issue.)


    • Critical Importance & Unprecedented Potential Impact - in regards to the 2A, this will be the most important election in American history
      (i.e., the outcome of the election could result in changes to the 2A that are more extreme than any previous proposed or passed legislation, and an impact that surpasses that of the National Firearms Act)
      --------------------------------------------------
    • One of the Most Important, but NOT the single-most important in history
      (i.e., a potential impact that is as significant as the NFA, but not greater)
      --------------------------------------------------
    • Important, but NOT critically-important
      (i.e., a potential impact that is significant, but less than the NFA & other major historical legislation)
      --------------------------------------------------
    • NOT Very Important
      (i.e., regardless of the outcome, a potential impact that is limited)
      --------------------------------------------------
    • NOT Important At All
      (i.e., regardless of outcome, the potential impact would be contained to a point where it has minimal or no
      effect on the 2A)
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
     
  2. Red Wind

    Red Wind Member

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    #1. With little doubt. SCOTUS vacancies alone make it vital, IMO.
     
  3. FL-NC

    FL-NC Member

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    What Redwind said. Not just for the 2nd, for everything. If that harpy gets in office, she can stack up the court with so many liberal leaning judges (with lifetime appointments) that the consequences will last much longer than the 4-8 years she is in office. THAT would be her legacy.
     
  4. csa77

    csa77 Member

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    The problem is candidates we have too choose from....

    Hillery is VERY anti gun.

    Trump was up until maybe 3-4 years ago VERY anti gun. If you believe hes really changed at all. I dont.


    Ether way I think we are screwed. I guess I have to vote for trump now. I don't like him I don't trust him.
     
  5. Bobson

    Bobson Member

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    I think it's very important, but not necessarily the most critically important election in American history. I think the importance of this election in regards to the 2A issue has a whole heck of a lot more to do with the political climate in this country than it has to do with the candidates.

    The second amendment is going to be a major issue in every Presidential election from this year forward. Not that it hasn't been important in the past, but more because the "antis" aren't ever going to give up, and with each year they've only strengthened their resolve. There's more and more media coverage of violence, to the point where we hear stories about it literally every single day, despite the evidence and data proving crime rates are at the lowest point in decades. You really have to go out of your way to get the truth, and the prerequisite for that is the concession that, possibly, everything you're being told is a lie. Many people aren't willing to make that concession.

    The 2A is an issue worth shedding blood over. If that was EVER true (and our county was founded on the premise that it is), then it's still true today. I think that's a very rare opinion these days, and will only become less popular as time goes on. For that reason, if nothing else, every election is critically important.
     
  6. Swing

    Swing Member

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    ^ This. The SCOTUS picks could have a huge impact on our RKBA rights and other issues for generations to come.

    His position piece is about as solidly RKBA as one can wish for in this day and age. Maybe he is sincere, maybe his isn't, but do you honestly see him burning up political capital going against his own party to enact, unpopular, draconian laws? Unlikely.

    Now "enjoy" Hillary's, and pay special attention to the groups who have endorsed her on this topic.

    Read over his SCOTUS list. Then think of the kind of jurists Hillary will appoint. Which one will likely be more hostile to the 2A?
     
  7. BHP FAN

    BHP FAN Member

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    if you own a gun, and allow Hillary to decide your future, you'll rue the day you did so.
     
  8. 1911 guy

    1911 guy Member

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    Her VP pick is already spouting drivel about "common sense gun laws". I think Perry Mason would call that a "clue" about the direction they're headed.
     
  9. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    It's not just SCOTUS

    As POTUS, she also gets to appoint federal judges to the lower court, which the current POTUS has already done a pretty good job of stacking with judges hostile to gun owners.

    If she wins, gun owners will be screwed on more than one court level.
     
  10. Red Wind

    Red Wind Member

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    Yep. Bernie Sanders would be a better choice for the 2A than odious Kaine, who can be trusted about as far I can throw my Toyota Tacoma.
     
  11. taliv

    taliv Moderator

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    For those of you thinking scotus appointments you're a little late. If it wasn't for a previous election heller would have been decided differently already and you would have no individual right for several years now.

    I'd say that if Ron Paul had beaten shrub then Gonzalez vs raich, kilo, obamacare and a few others would mean we could be living in a world with federal powers restricted to what's written in the constitution

    No this isn't the most important election in history. It's just the most important one since 2012.
     
  12. Good Ol' Boy

    Good Ol' Boy Member

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    I won't say much on my political thoughts other than I think our system has been FUBAR for some time.

    The last two cycles, especially the first term for Obama, I remember folks saying it would be the apocalypse if he were elected. Two terms later and not much has changed as far as 2A. If anything it's a little better than it was. That's as far as the POTUS is concerned.

    Granted, there have been other elected officials that have made moves on our 2A rights, and in reality that's where our focus should be. There's sooooo much more to govt than the POTUS, yet that seems to be what everyone focuses on.


    To be honest, if Hillary wins I'd be much more worried about the Russians, China/Korea or Iraq/Iran pulling something on us than 2A rights being tarnished. Course, if Trump wins it could be the same outcome just with more countries.
     
  13. db_tanker

    db_tanker Member

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    SCOTUS pure and simple...the person taking office will have 1 and at least 1 more to fill before the first term is up...RBG will be going out...possibly one more...that will be 4 justices to seat in 8 years...yeah...this is an important election cycle...
     
  14. basicblur

    basicblur Member

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    Obama is more of a pragmatist than some folks give him credit for - I think he took to heart Bill Clinton's analysis of why the democrats lost the Senate (Bill's anti-gun stance / actions).

    Much of what Obama did he was dragged into kicking and screaming by the far left anti-2nd Amendment folks.

    I think HRC will be MUCH worse for gun owners than Obama - she's an ideologue when it comes to guns, and she has not taken Bill's warnings to heart.
     
  15. natman

    natman Member

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    Well, let's see. The last time Hillary lived in the White House (and I hope it was the LAST time), the Clinton administration came up with a scheme to change the way guns were distributed and tried to do an end run around Congress by threatening gun manufacturers with law suits, even though they were following existing law.

    This was the most unconstitutional practice to come out of a Presidential administration since FDR tried to pack the Supreme Court.

    Now let's take a look at what she promises will happen if she's elected:

    This means background checks for ALL sales, no online sales (whether via an FFL or not), the government can take as long as it wants to run a background check (read "forever"), allowing gun manufacturers to be sued for illegal acts committed with their guns (imagine Chevy being sued because somebody got into an accident while driving drunk in one of their cars).

    IF??? It's been settled by the Supreme Court!

    What this translates to is she'll do whatever she can get away with.

    Add in her support for stopping gun sales to anybody the government puts on a secret "terrorist" list without a shred of due process and her advocacy of nationwide "Australian style" gun confiscation, and yes, I would say this is a critical election.
     
  16. Swing

    Swing Member

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    Indeed, those were serious cases (Heller, McDonald) with an enormous impact on 2A case law. However, all decisions can, in part or in whole, be reversed by a subsequent decision.

    Beyond that, there are plenty of cases that could result in further restrictions on RKBA. We need to make sure there right judges are on the bench, if and when, those cases make it to SCOTUS.

    Ron Paul ran in 1988 as the Libertarian candidate and received 0.47% of the votes in the general. He ran as Republican in 2008 and 2012 and didn't even come close to clinching the nomination. A "what if" of a Paul presidency is purely academic, to put it mildly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
  17. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    Presidential ballot could have been important to RKBA, but won't be this time
    --Gun control is almost certainly a low priority for Donald, though this is more blessing than curse for us
    --The practical effect of any sweeping doomsday bans Hillary could pass will be minimal in free states as noncompliance spreads even up into state governments, and slave states are already restricted
    Down ballot is far more important since both candidates will be requiring congressional resistance to keep their authoritarian natures in check, but naturally no one will pay attention to this crucial function & instead denounce anyone who would oppose bad law so long as it's their party's law
    --Shortsighted national security & economic bills will pass, regardless
    --More and more criminal acts by officials will leak out, nothing will be prosecuted, regardless
    Supreme Court will become more politically-motivated regardless, though it's unlikely either candidate will get conservative justices appointed for a number of reasons
    --Bad precedent will continue to pile up, important decisions will be put off
    --It's diminished moral authority to interpret the law will continue to erode, faster

    So basically the same as most recent elections, just slip-slided a bit further past the event horizon since the last go-around. The United States' mind is clearly going in its autumn years, but we aren't panicking just yet. That will probably start around the time Donald's trade wars start WWIII or Hillary's foreign policy blunders start WWIII.

    TCB
     
  18. barnbwt

    barnbwt member

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    It was, though it'd been inevitable for two generations, and here we are now, facing a post apocalyptic wasteland to be ruled by one of two liberal plutocrats (yes ruled, since they have both made it abundantly clear they do not intend to abide by the bounds of their office with their policy proposals and statements). We'll likely bounce back and forth between incompetent cults of personality from here on out, until one of them finally decides they aren't leaving after eight years.

    No one thought we'd be sifting through radioactive rubble if Obama was elected, just that it would signal the beginning of the end for enlightenment government. Now that the congress has been irreparably broken due to sustained manufactured gridlock (Reid) to precipitate Executive usurpation, and the courts sufficiently discredited through a number of back-to-back contradictory or inexplicable rulings, we've started down the final stretch. Few more wars, attacks, or economic crises, and we'll be there. It's abundantly clear we've had no intention of stopping ourselves up to this point.

    TCB
     
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2016
  19. CapnMac

    CapnMac Member

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    Significant, yes, as the next POTUS is nominating and seating probably 3 SCOTUS justices.

    "Historically significant"--maybe not. Not unless Johnson is elected. Or if there is an Electoral College tie.
     
  20. Old Shooter

    Old Shooter Member

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    I'm more concerned with the candidates SCOTUS picks. They will impact our 2A and all other rights for the next 30 or so years. When all of our rights are decided/determined by 1 vote on the Supreme Court, that's going to hurt.
     
  21. DoubleMag

    DoubleMag Member

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    It's 2a/SCOTUS all-the-way ! !

    Um, let's not be so short sighted (no pun) looking solely at the Trump Presidency. If all goes well, it goes something like this...

    Trump, 2 terms, which should be good for 2A re: SCOTUS appointments. Therefore...
    Pence runs for POTUS, and potentially another 2 terms, picking up what loose ends are left. Just look farther fellow HighRoaders...past the next sound bite, and definately past Nov 8th!

    Again,I agree for 2A issues and others, the largest reason to pull the lever is, THE SUPREME COURT JUSTICE NOMINATIONS AND SUBSEQUENT APPOINTMENTS
     
  22. Warp

    Warp Member

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    :rolleyes:
     
  23. 358Hoosier

    358Hoosier Member

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    You have to Vote TRUMP because Hillary will try to kill the 2A at every turn. Trump is now VERY strong on he 2A, he has seen the light. I don't understand why people get criticized for changing positions. Aren't we always talking on the internet about trying to change people's opinion to garner another shooter and 2A supporter? Yet when a politician does it, coming around to OUR side, he is criticized and people say they don't trust it. Just amazing. The man has a carry license, and packs. He and his sons are NRA members and shoot. What the heck more do some of you people need.

    I've always been NEVER-Hillary...and now I'm quickly turning into a Trump supporter.

    https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions/second-amendment-rights
     
  24. Warp

    Warp Member

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    The obvious answer to this is: A record of voting pro-2A. Which obviously can't apply here. So it's harder to judge. Not that there would ever be any comparison between two big government options being put forth
     
  25. 358Hoosier

    358Hoosier Member

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    SO you need something you can not possibly get, since he's never been a politician. Meanwhile, Hillary has a solid record of voting ANTI-2A...Trump could not possibly do any worse. Read his position. He has a NY carry permit and carries...obviously he's come around and seen the light.

    And for those of you who are going to sit home on election day and feel self righteous as you watch Hillary be sworn in, and watch our liberties get squashed over the next 4-8 years. You may feel proud, but the country will suffer for your stupidity, arrogance, and misplaced pride. People did that with Romney, and look what the last 4 years got us. Keep doing the same thing and expecting different results...
     
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