The Judge for my Grand daugther
- Thread starter WALKERs210
- Start date
- Status
bassdogs
Member
Proud Judge Public Defender owner
There are no fewer than a dozen anti Judge threads in the thread archives. Read them and draw your own conclusion. I bought the short barreled PD and yes it is larger than a pocket 38 that might be a better choice but training and practice are a must regardless of the tool.
A 410 000buck from the PD has been shown to fully penetrate 12" of ballistic jell with an entry spread of a couple of inches at SD ranges. The 45long colt HP's are quite deadly even from these short barrels. The daction trigger pull is not an issue [guess I got a good one] and the soft grips on the SD are a good fit for a small hand.
You might not want to shoot a bad guy holding your child with any gun unless you are one hell of a shot and quite confident in your ability to react under stress. The idea of CC is to prevent the abduction and stopping the threat. Shooting a fleeing BG who has your child as a shield is a bad idea. On the other hand, a blast of 410 000 at his legs would have a real good chance of giving him a bad day without hitting the kid.
Before the Judge boo birds chime in, I'll repeat: the first and most important thing is training. No one should consider CC without taking the time to master the basics of safe gun handling and putting rounds down range. SD practice has nothing to do with bulls eye practice but everything to do with becoming proficient with hitting a paper plate at 5 to 25 feet with a quick target acquisition.
There are no fewer than a dozen anti Judge threads in the thread archives. Read them and draw your own conclusion. I bought the short barreled PD and yes it is larger than a pocket 38 that might be a better choice but training and practice are a must regardless of the tool.
A 410 000buck from the PD has been shown to fully penetrate 12" of ballistic jell with an entry spread of a couple of inches at SD ranges. The 45long colt HP's are quite deadly even from these short barrels. The daction trigger pull is not an issue [guess I got a good one] and the soft grips on the SD are a good fit for a small hand.
You might not want to shoot a bad guy holding your child with any gun unless you are one hell of a shot and quite confident in your ability to react under stress. The idea of CC is to prevent the abduction and stopping the threat. Shooting a fleeing BG who has your child as a shield is a bad idea. On the other hand, a blast of 410 000 at his legs would have a real good chance of giving him a bad day without hitting the kid.
Before the Judge boo birds chime in, I'll repeat: the first and most important thing is training. No one should consider CC without taking the time to master the basics of safe gun handling and putting rounds down range. SD practice has nothing to do with bulls eye practice but everything to do with becoming proficient with hitting a paper plate at 5 to 25 feet with a quick target acquisition.
W.E.G.
Member
If your granddaughter is not a "gun person," just giving her a gun will not do much to improve her safety when she is out in public.
If she wears the sorts of fashions that young women today wear, there is no good place for her to carry the gun on her person.
To effectively defend oneself through the use of a firearm, the person must make huge wardrobe adjustments, and must possess the knowledge and mindset to effectively use a gun in self defense.
Is your granddaughter ready to make those changes in her lifestyle and outlook?
If not, you might want to think about other ways to improve her safety.
If she wears the sorts of fashions that young women today wear, there is no good place for her to carry the gun on her person.
To effectively defend oneself through the use of a firearm, the person must make huge wardrobe adjustments, and must possess the knowledge and mindset to effectively use a gun in self defense.
Is your granddaughter ready to make those changes in her lifestyle and outlook?
If not, you might want to think about other ways to improve her safety.
I don't know if she lives near you or not. If so it sounds like a grandpa/granddaughter shopping trip is in order. You can give some advice but it would be best to let her pickout what she likes the most. Get her some training too as so many others have already mentioned.
That being said it would be hard to go wrong with a Smith and Wesson Model 10 in 38 special.
That being said it would be hard to go wrong with a Smith and Wesson Model 10 in 38 special.
My wife picked a pistol and took a class, as advised above. She carries a Lady Smith with Hogue grip in .38 +P; her defensive ammunition is Magtech Guardian Gold 125gr JHP.
More importantly, she didn't drop it in a drawer and forget about it. She shoots that gun a couple of times a month and is very comfortable wih it.
More importantly, she didn't drop it in a drawer and forget about it. She shoots that gun a couple of times a month and is very comfortable wih it.
Guillermo
member
we cannot always be there to protect our children
I strongly suggest getting the younger kids into a RadKIDS class and preteen and older girls into a RAD class.
Made a call last night and Meridian Community College has a RAD program. Call (601) 484-8620 to check for scheduling.
http://www.radkids.org/
http://www.rad-systems.com/
I strongly suggest getting the younger kids into a RadKIDS class and preteen and older girls into a RAD class.
Made a call last night and Meridian Community College has a RAD program. Call (601) 484-8620 to check for scheduling.
http://www.radkids.org/
http://www.rad-systems.com/
Not sure I buy that. Snub nosed revolvers are typically among the most difficult guns to master and shoot accurately. I am inclined to think they are among the worst guns for a "complete novice."
But, as you also mentioned, Cornered Cat would be a great resource for her.
Stainz
Member
I learned of the S&W .410 revolver, the Governor, 6/13/11 - upon my first visit to a new lgs. I had tried a Judge at the range where I worked - never that fond of Taurus - and the Judge didn't help that. But - I left that new lgs with a $579 Governor. The reason was simple - it took moonclipped .45 ACPs, a la my 625JM, and was over $300 cheaper than the next more expensive .45 ACP revolver, the 325 Night Guard, while only 7/8" longer OAL and <1.5 oz heavier. It was a no-brainer for me - I wanted a .45 ACP night stand revolver. Sure, I bought four boxes of .410s that first week - still have half of them left over a year later. The .45 Colt use is fine - 250gr Speer Gold Dots are fine from it, as are .45 Schofield loads - and .45 GAPs should be fine (.45 Auto Rims won't work!). Pretty universal... better than a Judge... but just plain wrong for a smaller young lady!
My wife is 5'10" - she came with a pocket semi-auto - a .25 ACP Tomcat - gave that back to her dad. She picked out a 9mm CZ-75, after renting everything at the range. I bought her one and she loved it - was quite an eagle eye with it, too. Thousands upon thousands of Blazer 9mm later - she tired of it - she only carried it in her car on odd occasions - never holstered on her hip. She sold it and 'acquired' my bought new 'first' .38 - a 2" 10. I fitted some Hogue wood grips to her hand - nirvanna - her house & car gun. I tried to interest her in a 642 for pocket/IWB carry - no way - she tried the handfit of a bunch of .32 auto's - settled on a Seecamp (... of course!). "I can carry it and it doesn't make my butt look big!". She knows the jam drill, although it never has jammed. She actually prefers her 2" 10 to everything else, including her new PPK/S LE from 1/10. BTW, I hate self feeders. It was tough spending good money on rude-case-tossers - but I had to 'get her what she wanted.
The key is 'What will she be comfortable with?'. A .38 can carry +P 158gr LHPSWCs - or, for the recoil-shy, 148gr LWC target loads - and still be effective. But, if she doesn't like firearms - or wants a 'deterrent' - please get her pepper spray... and the defensive course.
I am so relieved she wasn't physically injured in the altercation. I am sure it will be on her mind for some time. Sounds to me like you could use a vacation... The MS coast is nice... and not that far from any part of AL...
Stainz
PS For relative size perspective, my six shooter S&W Governor, sporting S&W/Hogue .500 Magnum monogrips, and my 642 pocket protector:
My wife is 5'10" - she came with a pocket semi-auto - a .25 ACP Tomcat - gave that back to her dad. She picked out a 9mm CZ-75, after renting everything at the range. I bought her one and she loved it - was quite an eagle eye with it, too. Thousands upon thousands of Blazer 9mm later - she tired of it - she only carried it in her car on odd occasions - never holstered on her hip. She sold it and 'acquired' my bought new 'first' .38 - a 2" 10. I fitted some Hogue wood grips to her hand - nirvanna - her house & car gun. I tried to interest her in a 642 for pocket/IWB carry - no way - she tried the handfit of a bunch of .32 auto's - settled on a Seecamp (... of course!). "I can carry it and it doesn't make my butt look big!". She knows the jam drill, although it never has jammed. She actually prefers her 2" 10 to everything else, including her new PPK/S LE from 1/10. BTW, I hate self feeders. It was tough spending good money on rude-case-tossers - but I had to 'get her what she wanted.
The key is 'What will she be comfortable with?'. A .38 can carry +P 158gr LHPSWCs - or, for the recoil-shy, 148gr LWC target loads - and still be effective. But, if she doesn't like firearms - or wants a 'deterrent' - please get her pepper spray... and the defensive course.
I am so relieved she wasn't physically injured in the altercation. I am sure it will be on her mind for some time. Sounds to me like you could use a vacation... The MS coast is nice... and not that far from any part of AL...
Stainz
PS For relative size perspective, my six shooter S&W Governor, sporting S&W/Hogue .500 Magnum monogrips, and my 642 pocket protector:
Last edited:
Certaindeaf
member
A great many/most professional and or highly ranked competitive shooters have not, nor could they perhaps "master" a snubnose revolver.. they'd give up.
What a layperson needs to do is to be able to hit a two foot tall 4x4" post at around three to six feet distant. That's pretty easy for the novice to do and where the snubnose fills the bill in this and many instances.
Chuck Perry
Member
She needs to pick a gun that fits her hand AND her lifestyle. The niftiest gun available will do her no good if she decides it's a burden to carry sometimes. She should realize now that you will never know when trouble will come knocking. The 10oz 380 you can carry in your pocket all day, every day, everywhere is far better than alot of other choices.
oneounceload
member
Not with some of the trigger pulls - then guns tend to jerk from recoil anticipation or hard triggers - I carry one, but I would not recommend that to someone who is not a gun person - she REALLY needs to go to a rental range and shoot a LOT of different types and find what works for her - and what works for her might not even be a gun - it might be pepper spray, a dog, or something different
Certaindeaf
member
To hit a two foot tall 4x4" post at three feet? I understand that some people can physically or mentally do nothi.. nevermind. Given a normal and common DA snubgun, a fairly "normal" layperson should and can hit that at that distance quickly and repeatedly with their eyes closed. anyway
I'm really glad your grand daughter and her girls are safe.
I echo what's been said about Training. This is what she needs most of all.
I'm not suggesting just training on how to shoot. A tool (in this case, a firearm) does not equal safety.
I'd suggest a solid self defense course like Masaad Ayoob's LFI I and II or something similar from a reputable training academy. This would make a great gift to her and her family.
These classes go over the legal as well as mechanical aspects of self protection with a firearm. Above all Situational Awareness at all times, i.e. Jeff Cooper's Condition Yellow is critical. Appears she has some of that now.
After training, she should be much better informed on what choices are best for her.
I echo what's been said about Training. This is what she needs most of all.
I'm not suggesting just training on how to shoot. A tool (in this case, a firearm) does not equal safety.
I'd suggest a solid self defense course like Masaad Ayoob's LFI I and II or something similar from a reputable training academy. This would make a great gift to her and her family.
These classes go over the legal as well as mechanical aspects of self protection with a firearm. Above all Situational Awareness at all times, i.e. Jeff Cooper's Condition Yellow is critical. Appears she has some of that now.
After training, she should be much better informed on what choices are best for her.
One_Jackal
member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2012
- Messages
- 542
I lived in Harrison County for a long time. It's a shame it has went that far down hill. When I lived there no one locked their doors. It wasn't uncommon to see a new car running while the owner was in a convenience store.
I am glad your daughter is fine. On the coast I would look for a used 1911. Due to the large military presence they are easy to find. Watch the penny pincher and other publications where someone who is about to be deployed would advertise the stuff they want to sell. If you don't mind a ride into the country I have picked up some bargains thru Cuevas Auction. Here is their URL. You can bid online. http://www.cuevasauction.com/
If you are considering a self defense class I would talk to any Highway patrolman that you are comfortable talking to. With the self defense craze everyone that is qualified is giving lessons. The Long Beach HP station is full of ex special forces and they have a world champion kick boxer. I don't think your daughter could find better training anywhere in the world.
I am glad your daughter is fine. On the coast I would look for a used 1911. Due to the large military presence they are easy to find. Watch the penny pincher and other publications where someone who is about to be deployed would advertise the stuff they want to sell. If you don't mind a ride into the country I have picked up some bargains thru Cuevas Auction. Here is their URL. You can bid online. http://www.cuevasauction.com/
If you are considering a self defense class I would talk to any Highway patrolman that you are comfortable talking to. With the self defense craze everyone that is qualified is giving lessons. The Long Beach HP station is full of ex special forces and they have a world champion kick boxer. I don't think your daughter could find better training anywhere in the world.
Last edited:
Guillermo
member
while it is our job to protect our children, it is even MORE important to teach our children to protect themselves.
a good parent prepares their children for the road, not prepares the road for the child.
http://www.radkids.org/
a good parent prepares their children for the road, not prepares the road for the child.
http://www.radkids.org/
As someone who owns both I think this is an excellent idea. The lcr22 is just about as unintimidating as it gets, and if you get the 357lcr (with the extra heft over the 38) and shoot 38s in it the recoil is also fairly mild for a carry gun.
If this is no good, a short barrel sp101 shooting 38spl is another good idea, as is the flock idea mentioned above (though if you go glock for carry, it needs to be a 26 IMHO). Or an m&p 9 compact.
But yeah if it were me it would be lcr or sp101 with a short barrel.
Hondo 60
Member
First & foremost, I too, am glad that your grand daughter & family are safe.
I believe it was on this forum someone once said ...
The Judge is OK, but there are guns that shoot 410 MUCH better.
The Judge is OK, but there are guns that shoot 45 Colt MUCH better.
End Quote
Now isn't your family worth MUCH better?
I will 2nd or 3rd the idea of letting her pick out whatever fits her best.
And then train, train, train...
It's very dangerous to have a gun & not know where, how or why to use it.
I believe it was on this forum someone once said ...
The Judge is OK, but there are guns that shoot 410 MUCH better.
The Judge is OK, but there are guns that shoot 45 Colt MUCH better.
End Quote
Now isn't your family worth MUCH better?
I will 2nd or 3rd the idea of letting her pick out whatever fits her best.
And then train, train, train...
It's very dangerous to have a gun & not know where, how or why to use it.
tomrkba
Member
- Joined
- May 30, 2010
- Messages
- 2,370
I think there are far better revolvers for 45 Colt than the Judge. The two examples I fired locked up with the 410 buck shot load. Group sizes were around 20"-26" at 21 feet--with no hits to the vitals. They worked fine with 45 Colt and the guns were very accurate.
I also think that she should try a variety of revolvers in 38 Special (minimum 3" barrel length with full stocks) and various semi-automatic handguns in 9x19mm (minimum 3.5" barrel). Both calibers, with a decent length barrel, are good for learning to shoot due to the lower muzzle blast and recoil. The grip on either gun must be long enough to support her palm. Terminal ballistics are adequate for the job.
Most trainers will have a variety of handguns available for her to try. She doesn't even know what she wants or needs in a defensive handgun yet. She will have a very good idea about what will work for her after a training course or two.
Take a look at Rangemaster in Memphis. Tom Givens is very, very good and offers classes for the ladies.
I also think that she should try a variety of revolvers in 38 Special (minimum 3" barrel length with full stocks) and various semi-automatic handguns in 9x19mm (minimum 3.5" barrel). Both calibers, with a decent length barrel, are good for learning to shoot due to the lower muzzle blast and recoil. The grip on either gun must be long enough to support her palm. Terminal ballistics are adequate for the job.
Most trainers will have a variety of handguns available for her to try. She doesn't even know what she wants or needs in a defensive handgun yet. She will have a very good idea about what will work for her after a training course or two.
Take a look at Rangemaster in Memphis. Tom Givens is very, very good and offers classes for the ladies.
Last edited:
I hate to say this buy LGS has 3" S&W 624 with Ser# prefix indicating one of first 100 made. I would rather have that "Big Stainless Toad" in .44 Special instead of 'Hee Haaaaw" special you are referring to. The "Toad" will hold value because S&W guys want older guns nobody wanted to buy making them rare today. Not many bought 624 as smart ones realized they could shoot .44 special loads from .44 magnum guns.
EMT40SW
Member
Agree with the other posts on training. I also think of personal safety in terms of layers. Some suggestions:
A pocket knife:
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/SP...2-78-inch-Plain-Flat-Ground-Blade-G10-Handles
A pocket flashlight defensive head:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/romisen-rc-b3-cree-p4-led-flashlight-aaa-12066
Then a handgun of her choosing. A good start is a Glock 19 or Smith & Wesson revolver model 64, 65, or 66 in a four inch barrel:
http://www.jgsales.com/smith-wesson...,-good-to-very-good-condition-s-w-p-6679.html
Lastly a single Shot or pump action shotgun for home defense. Some folks swear by wasp spray as a PC form of defense that goes 30 feet. Good luck on your quest to help her cope. I'm glad everyone is ok physically.
A pocket knife:
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/SP...2-78-inch-Plain-Flat-Ground-Blade-G10-Handles
A pocket flashlight defensive head:
http://www.dealextreme.com/p/romisen-rc-b3-cree-p4-led-flashlight-aaa-12066
Then a handgun of her choosing. A good start is a Glock 19 or Smith & Wesson revolver model 64, 65, or 66 in a four inch barrel:
http://www.jgsales.com/smith-wesson...,-good-to-very-good-condition-s-w-p-6679.html
Lastly a single Shot or pump action shotgun for home defense. Some folks swear by wasp spray as a PC form of defense that goes 30 feet. Good luck on your quest to help her cope. I'm glad everyone is ok physically.
Sport45
Member
I'm glad she and her girls got away without harm.
I have to wonder though, if she'd had a firearm what would you have expected her to do differently? Do you think the outcome would have been any better?
The choice to arm is hers and hers alone. You can educate and train her but don't try to make that decision for her.
I have to wonder though, if she'd had a firearm what would you have expected her to do differently? Do you think the outcome would have been any better?
The choice to arm is hers and hers alone. You can educate and train her but don't try to make that decision for her.
Lawdawg45
Member
WALKERs210,
From a fellow Father and Grandpa, let me say thank God everyone is OK! In my opinion, the Judge is a horrible choice with it's recoil, limited range, and horrible shot pattern with birdshot. If you watch the demo video from the company, they were marketing this novelty as an anti-carjacking gun to be used under 5 feet. I'll list what I actually recommended to my own 25 year old daughter, and take from it what you will.
God's blessings...............LD
S&W J frame
S&W Model 10
Ruger SR9C (This is what she chose)
Glock 26
From a fellow Father and Grandpa, let me say thank God everyone is OK! In my opinion, the Judge is a horrible choice with it's recoil, limited range, and horrible shot pattern with birdshot. If you watch the demo video from the company, they were marketing this novelty as an anti-carjacking gun to be used under 5 feet. I'll list what I actually recommended to my own 25 year old daughter, and take from it what you will.
God's blessings...............LD
S&W J frame
S&W Model 10
Ruger SR9C (This is what she chose)
Glock 26
Links?
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked