The Law Vs. Your Morals: What Would You Do?

[damien]

Hypothetical question time!

In Illinois, we have a unique law. To obtain a firearm or ammunition legally you must possess a FOID card. You sign up for it and they do a background check and it takes 4-8 weeks. Then a long gun is a 24 hours wait, a handgun is a 72 hour wait. So for someone needing a gun out of the blue, Illinois has the longest statewide waiting period in the nation.

As you have probably heard about the Tank Johnson situation, possession of a gun without a FOID card is a misdemeanor. Carrying a gun, even with a FOID card, is a felony. Transferring a gun to a person who does not possess a FOID card appears to be a felony ("A violation of subsection (a) of Section 3 is a Class 4 felony. A third or subsequent conviction is a Class 1 felony. ")

Anyway, what would you do if a good friend who you knew well and knew you owned guns wanted one for self defense because a unexpected bad situation appeared. For instance, an ex-boyfriend or a neighborhood criminal wanted to kill your friend. You know your friend is a moral and reasonable person and you know that they will get a FOID card if they apply (no priors, etc.).

It seems to me this is an ethical dilemma. It is a crime to give them a gun. But you know that other than the wait, they would get a FOID card anyway. You know the 4-8 week wait is unreasonable. You know your friend's life is in danger. But transferring a gun to them might result in a felony on your part.

What do you do?

FOID Act: http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilc...ctName=Firearm+Owners+Identification+Card+Act.

 

[TexasRifleman]

Firearms are not the only means of self defense.

I'd not put my own legal safety in a dangerous position.

Recommend your friend move quickly to get the FOID, and suggest alternative methods that don't require all that; knives, OC spray, Tasers, baseball bats, etc.

 

[AndyC]

My thoughts are along the lines of "Am I my brother's keeper?"

I would feel absolutely zero obligation to protect him unless he physically moved into my house. Why is it your problem that he didn't take steps to protect himself (and I imagine his family)? Why should you break a law to protect him?

 

[Zundfolge]

Honestly I would refuse to live someplace where I was required by the state to get an FOID.

But I'll play along.

If loaning someone a gun could make ME into a felon I'd decline. I planned ahead and jumped through the hoops to make sure I'd have a gun if I needed one. There's an object lesson for your friend here.

At the most I'd let this friend crash on my couch for a few days if that would get them out of danger.

 

[SoCalShooter]

You have to have id to buy ammo? Wow thats almost as bad as california stan. Can you go acrross state lines and buy ammo?

 

[Titan6]

I already have a list of states where I refuse to live in and IL is two of them.

If you want to help your friend and she is too stubborn to move get her out of town until she can buy a gun. It is better to leave town for two months than to go to prison for two years and become a felon, but people don't think that way because they are too short sighted.

Breaking the law makes you a criminal. IF the law is stupid: change it. IF it can't be changed: move. All that will be left behind are the people that have the government that they deserve. When you run out of places to run to: fight... but you will likely lose. But you would have lost from the begining anyway.

 

[jefnvk]

Been there halfway. In MI, it is illegal to loan a handgun to someone that doesn't have a CCW. Friend's ex gets released from jail, gotta say NO, can't borrow it. Crash on the couch for a few days, but if its not worth getting your own in the next few days (could buy in one day easily), its not important enough to worry about me loaning.

 

[elrod]

1) If someone wants to kill your friend, time for them to get out of Dodge! Forget job, friends, church, etc. All those can be replaced.

2) If you cannot buy protection when it's needed, time to get the Hell out of Dodge!

Why did your friend not have a sidearm before this came up? Just curious.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Damien, I think you may want to review the differences between laws, morals, and ethics.

That said, are you willing to go to jail for your friend? Is he really a friend who asks you to commit a felony for him?

Think about it. He wants you to commit a felony for a threat that may or may not happen. Regardless of the outcome, you have committed a felony.

What about your obligations to yourself and your family?

 

[HankB]

Not Enough Information . . .

1. How good a friend is at risk?

2. Does the friend have any idea of how to use a gun? It's not a magic talisman, you know.

3. Does the hypothetical gun in question have a paper trail that leads back to you?

 

[Neo-Luddite]

I could be wrong; even though the friend does NOT have a FOID card, you might be able to lawfully store your gun at your friend's house if your friend is able to obtain a FOID card. Now this is open to interpretation so I would be carful. He certainly couldn't take the gun out of the place where you are storing it with his permisssion under normal circumstances. If however, he were faced with a immediate threat at home and resorted to brandishing your gun the situation might be considered a force majeure type sitauation in court.

All this asside--you would be putting yourself in serious legal jeopardy by doing what you are considering. This is why I tell even my friends who don't want a gun to get a FOID card for the 5 lousy bucks. You have to make the call for yourself--felony charges really strain freindships. Would you be morally wrong? As you describe it, of course not. But that won't matter. Have your pal stay at your house, or stay at his maybe?

 

[kermit315]

I hate FOID......just got my renewal and they arent laminated anymore, looks more like the licenses now.

anywho, as others have said, depends on the situation, but crashing on your couch till she gets hers/he leaves the area might not be all that bad an idea, and it keeps you out of trouble. if she is in that much fear, have her get a TRO. I know it doesnt stop anything, but it creates a paper trail, which if he ever decided to go after her and he gets ventilated for his trouble, would help in showing a pattern on his part, and a valid fear on her side.

jmo.

Jamie

 

[Autolycus]

Originally posted by mordechaianiliewicz: This is what I would do. First, I would inform the person of the laws they are subject to. Then, I would find them a person who has unregistered weapons, and tell them to buy one from that person.

What your doing is advocating illegal activity.

Sorry but its not your fault. Let this person move in with you until they can get their FOID card. Also have them take up the cause and start to fight for CCW.

 

[Don Gwinn]

Some good suggestions here, but also some advocates of crime. We don't do that here.

A gun is ONE part of a plan to keep yourself safe. Going without might not be ideal, but it can be done. I wouldn't be very comfortable handing over a gun to someone with no experience anyway. If some stranger is legally buying my gun, then his level of expertise is his own lookout unless he asks my advice. But if my *friend* asks me for a gun, by giving it to him, I'm stating that I think it's a good idea for him to use it. I really don't. Does he understand the use of deadly force? Will he panic and make things worse?