The matcho CCW!

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P95Carry

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OMG .... guy drops by my place this evening .... youngster from town. Ostensibly he wanted to check out some ammo loads .... in fact I think all he wanted to do was display his carry piece! Which can be OK - but ........

He got his CCW last week and he seems hell bent on letting everyone know just how great he is.! Sheesh. ''I gotta Glock 17 ... look at it .. ain't it great .......... wo betide any punk that gets in my way''!! :rolleyes:

I did my best to ''educate'' him ... trying to explain what CCW is about .... like, responsibility, what ramifications there can be if a shooting etc. After much patient effort I think I succeeded in part ... at least he was cognisant of what is involved if a shoot goes down.

Damn .. these guys are not what we want .... almost lookin for trouble ..... to ''prove themselves''.

I hope and pray that what I tried to explain will get him down off his macho pedestal ... and get him into sensible mode. I suppose tho there will always be a few, the likes of him ... and I am just hoping that they are also few and far between.. if we ever did NOT need amabassadors like him it's now.

I shall follow this up in a day or two .... to try and establish that he just might have gotten his head outa the dark and warm place.!
 
He is not alone. I have dealt with many just like him. There are more and more of them. It makes you wonder about "shall issue". The "Boy Scout" syndrome is bad too. These people seem to want to help everybody. They have NO idea about the real world. I wonder if video games ARE to blame?
 
I wonder if video games ARE to blame?
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I really am not sure ..... this guy is 22-23.. and should know better ... but, I am hoping I have made him think ... hard. I guess initially there is a ''novelty'' value ... some sorta ''big I am''.

The thing that needs reinforced is the responsibility ... and people by 21 and over should have that. I think they do but lose it in the euphoria of their feeling of ''power'' ...... or something like that. This is the first I have come across and it is more than concerning ........ but hopefully fairly rare.

Thing is, if he were to screw up ... it's not just his head on the block ...... but also ours too!! I am doing my NRA Instructor's course end of this month and hope very much to try and catch these (hopefully) isolated cases somehow and get em on the right track. I'm an optimist... or try to be!:p
 
At his age there is still the illusion of immortality which is now combined with the feeling of invincibility.


For years Hollyweird has show us the good guy bravely triumphing over evil. Quite often shooting from the hip after a fast draw and sending the bad guy sprawling with a single shot.

It's noble to want to save the world. It's foolish to think you can do it single handed. It's stupid to think you can do it with a gun.

Gun are very useful tools. I highly recommend them. But when the manure collides with the ventilation system, it's your brain that will keep you alive.



It's mandatory to remember there is a difference between carrying a handgun and fighting with a handgun. So you know, the issue is not whether or not you have a gun. Every police officer I know of who was killed in the line of duty had a gun with them. Having a gun with you in a fight may not be the ultimate criteria. Having a handgun with you you have confidence in, and can effectively fight with and win with, is the key. (Clint Smith)
 
Hopefully the sheer boredom of carrying a gun all the time will kick in. I started out as an off duty cop carrying a Govt model and two extra mags, everywhere all the time in a Milt Sparks Roadrunner with matching belt and a Camo jacket with the sleeves torn off to make a vest (that used to be pretty popular around these parts)....to one extra mag...To an HKP7 M8 and two extra mags...To one...To a Kahr PM9 and an extra mag to occasionally being very sure nothing bad is really going to happen and feeling pretty comfortable with a Ruger SP-101 shoved in my waistband under a T-shirt.....Always have a gun, no one has ever known about it though. For some reason, that was never a big deal to me. Maybe because I waited until I was 24 and a little tiny bit more mature and smarter.
 
I have also tried to educate people new to concealed carry. If you ever need it your big advantage is the element of surprise which of course you loose if you tell everyone. Those that have the attitude 'look at me I have a gun' we call flashers , they want attention just like the other type of flasher. We also tell the newbies when you are carrying keep your macho and prejudices at home. I have always been for a serious mandatory training course to obtain a CCW.
 
I guess none of us were ever young...

I still can't carry here in WI, but I can sympathize with the kid's bravado a bit. Many of us, especially those not raised in a gun-owning family before we're legal to buy for ourselves have to go through a "growing up stage".

In my late teens, and early twenties, I went through the same thing. The only difference is that luckily my ego made me keep my mouth shut about such things around other shooters lest I make myself look stupid. Instead I expressed my bravado and ignorance through what I bought.

My very first gun at 18 was a Remington Viper .22 from Wal-Mart. I knew enough that a .22 rifle is about the best "first gun" you can have, but I still chose the Viper over more established items like the 10/22 or Marlin mod 60, just because it was black, and had the protruding mag like a "little AK".

My first pistol was a Ruger P89, not because of any special feature other than it was the most affordable and highest capacity pistol I could afford.

My first centerfire rifle was a Ruger Mini-14 and I wasted no time putting a Butler Creek folding stock, and a flash hider on it. When I found out about Russian SKS's for only $90, I nearly murdered the thing putting it in a Choate Dragunov stock, and a 20 round mag to make it into an ersatz AK... Oh yeah, I threw away the original laminated stock as well. :banghead:

I bought an HK94 on credit for $2500, and extra MP5 mags at gunshows for $75-100, and if it wasn't for the shellshocked landscape of the pre-'94 and post-89 ban era when the wounds were still raw, and worse was coming down the pipe... I wouldn't have been fantasticaly lucky to sell it on consigment to an even bigger fool, or a very rich man for $3500 a little while later and get out of my payments...

Several years later my wife bought me a Kel-Tec Sub9 for my birthday which did the same thing as that HK94 did, 30 rounds of 9mm as a plinking range queen, for under $500. While the Kel-Tec didn't exist back then, the Marlin Camp Carbine did, and was just as inexpensive.

In '94 I discovered the Internet, still pre-web, but on Usenet through my university shell account I discovered rec.guns and I started to "grow up" before then I didn't really have any good source of gun knowledge, other than what had the prettiest and flashiest ads in the gunrags.

WIth the kid P95Carry talked to, this is key:

After much patient effort I think I succeeded in part ... at least he was cognisant of what is involved if a shoot goes down.
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You reached him, and he was willing to listen. I reached rec.guns and I was willing to listen.
 
I've seen some people like that.

My beef with the TX CHL process, is that it is simple to do, both the classroom and the range aspect. I think it needs to be on some levels, maybe even easier; then you see one of these types that don't quite grasp the reality and resposibility of the burden.

People need to get their CHL then seek out some professional instruction on the legalities, ramifications, and implementation of their firearms.

I learned more from the basic Personal Protection seminar at Powderhorn Ranch than what the CHL course taught.

My .02

Smoke

For years Hollyweird has show us the good guy bravely triumphing over evil. Quite often shooting from the hip after a fast draw and sending the bad guy sprawling with a single shot.
Click to expand...

Yeah, everyone knows you can stand straight up in the face of multiple bad guys firing full auto weapons, while you take them out one at a time with one shot from your standard 9mm handgun.

Sheesh:banghead:
 
too bad

Good reply AJ, I got started a little earlier then you at the age of 12 and I did opt for the 10/22.

P95 I am sorry that some of us younger gun people behave so stupidly. I got my CCW at 23 in IA. After taking the CCW class put on by an old retired Sheriff Deputy I was scared to have to use my gun. From talking to allot of people that have gone through a good CCW course it sounds like that is the norm. They try to make you realize how much responsibility you are signing up for. Hopefully this guy can make it to a class that will instill in him the amount of respect and wisdom that is needed.

One thing that I think is really interesting about people with permits is the fact that most of would much prefer to never be noticed. We all hope to God that we never need to draw our guns. This is the direct opposite of how many people would think of us. The antis like to portray us as cowboys or street fighters. None of this could be further from the truth. Part of being young and maybe not knowing allot of permit holders is this guy probably doesn’t know how he is supposed to act. If he never took any serious training all he has to go by is the hollwierd picture of you typical gun totter. I feel sorry for him. Maybe wait a month or two and recommend he check out THR or packing.org. I know this place has helped me learn so much.
 
Dopey needs to be lectured on the meaning of certain acronyms. The letters "CCW" do not read "See" CW.
 
Thx for all the comments guys.

Guess what!! He called me not an hour ago ... and had been thinking hard on what I tried to get thru to him! I suggested he accompany me to the range real soon (hoping I can sneak out Friday . and that should mean he's off work too - strike while iron hot!) .... to concentrate on some practice with his carry piece, even tho I am far from familiar with Glocks myself. I know he has put some rounds thru it tho so ... it'll be a case I think of safety drills and watch his technique.

He has had way too little handgun experience and so I hope to persuade him to get some simple practice first, with a .22 .. simply to try and hone his overall approach.

I honestly think his ego is ''pricked'' but usefully .. I wish you could have heard the tone of his voice ..... way more adult. I think we have a result!

:)
 
I think that the biggest thing people need to be taught is that a defensive gun use is likely to have that "car crash" sensation of slow-mo absolute horror about it. Then, assuming you survived, when all you want to do is decompress, you're going to have to keep your wits about you as you deal with the police, and perhaps the justice system. Unfortunately, unless you have other unexpected and startling bad experiences in life to draw upon, you can't really learn what that feels like until it happens to you.

I think that if the anti's understood that the vast majority of those who carry realize that to draw their pistol is nearly guaranteed to make one feel this way, they wouldn't be so opposed. But to understand that, they'd have to give up what lies at the core of their objections to RKBA and CCW, the notion that crime and violence happens to "other people".

To them, the defensive arguments for gun carry, use, and ownership represent confronting the same uneasy feelings that buying life insurance, or pre-purchase of a funeral plot engenders, absolute certainty in your mortality, and the fragility of your life. The funny thing is that these same people, just like the rest of us, feel no qualms about putting on a seatbelt, and getting behind the steering wheel airbag in their car which is essentially a small bomb. It just dosen't translate emotionally into the risk of winding up in a twisted pile of burning metal for some reason.

I now think that the majority of anti's are not fueled by statisim, collectivisim, or nannyisim. The anti-gun mindset is the ultimate manifestation of denial. Denial that you could be the victim of crime, denial that you could be hurt, denial that you could be raped, denial that you could be killed. Denial that through some strange twist of fate your government could turn genocidal and turn it's sight on you.
 
I say don't publish the fact but so what if you let your gun buddies know that you just got your CCW, its' something to be proud of. Not proud that you can gun a man down if needed but that you are taking responsibilty for your own safety. If one of my gun buddies gets a new gun he always comes in and tells us about it or even brings it by to show. We enjoy the shooting sports and the fact that we have the RTKBA.
If a golfer gets a new club doesn't he show it off.
Not to get anything started just trying show a different view. Just my 2 cents:)
 
Power without education and discipline is truly the epitome of Yeehawism.

Thank you, P95, for doing your part in combatting the Yeehaws.:) I have a perfect remedy: just tell him how much a criminal defense attorney will cost him when he does something really stupid like hurt a fellow human being.:D That ought to shock the Yeehaw right out of him.

I respectfully disagree with others here. Responsibility is not a function of age, but of education and awareness.
 
Good for you, P95. I hope to God you have good results in trying to teach that new CCW guy . . . responsibility that goes with a license to carry.

I'm not just talking about young people here. Many folks who acquire a new toy or tool . . . whether a new car, pickup or other worldly object, are naturally inclined to want to show off their new acquisition. Not bad in itself, but blatant exhibitionism can do a lot of harm in the case of a concealed weapon--just the stuff that makes "good" fodder for the anti-gun crowd.

Sensible responsibility are so important. I sure wish you success.
 
Any time we talk about CCW and RTKBA it makes me think of that line in the movie Spiderman.


Paraphrase:

"With great power come great responsibility"

I think that about sums it up.
 
Well, I'm going to play the devils advocate here. A while back myself and a couple buddies were talking about this very thing and one of them had a point that I couldn't counter. When you look at a military base, you see armed guards all over the place. When the threat-con goes up, you see even more armed guards in the area and soft covers tend to be replaced with flack jackets and helmets.
Now the one guy takes this very approach, short of wearing open carry, goes around with the various appearal that looks like he spent a bit too much time in the pro-shops of Gunsite, HK, Glock and Sig all in one day. His philisophy (and the one I bring here today) is that if the terrorist sees the base is heavily defended or bad guy sees good signs that you are carrying, the deterant is there almost like a warning sign that the terrorist would be better off to attack a lesser guarded facilility or the bad guy would do well to pass you over for an easier vicitm to rob.
I have to admit that he has a point. When I was stationed in Naples, Italy, the JRA or Red Brigade never did attack the base we guarded but they did blow up the USO in downtown Mergillina suburb killing one American sailor. There is an old Arab proverb that we learned in counter-terrorism class that goes, "When you are hungry, it's foolish to hunt a lion when there are so many sheep to be had" and I think the attack on the USO in 1988 is a good example of this line of thinking.
Now if terrorism can be looked at as street crime (a lot of the tactics are similar) but one with a political, religious or ideological basis, wouldn't one be better off to display a passive show of force as a deterant to the street thug that might realize that "this person is packing so I'll leave him alone and go after someone else" thereby reducing yoru chances of ever having to draw your weapon in the first place?
 
Grunt ... you make a valid point but IMO that has two sides (and what you mention re a base is perhaps more relevant than with carry) ... I guess we could argue it both ways. Sure ..... to not see a wolf should make the sheep more tempting - the wolf then maybe coming in to a fray (should it be necessary) with the advantage of surprise. But, OTOH ... if the Wolf is readily identifiable then maybe .. the BG may consider it better to deal with that as a prime threat, all the easier to then deal with the sheep! It's a bit apples and oranges.


megcatia ...... indeed, I quite agree .. within ''us'' ... the gun owners and shooters, sure, it is well OK to discuss, display our weapons .. no probs there and maybe I should have added such. I did know he had the Glock from earlier in the year - tho he'd quite obviously forgotten he'd informed me!.. the bothersome thing was the way in which he presented himself and his gun, as a new CCW .... THAT was the concerning aspect. The ''machismo'' flavor! I'd admit too following someone's comment .. sure, it ain't just young new CCW's that can be this way ..... like as not some ol' pharts as old as me could be just as arrogant :D



As I have said tho ..... I think he is already way more thoughtful ... and as others have referenced .. that is perhaps in the most part due to having stopped to think of the legal ramifications ... sorta taken the wind outa his sails :p .. sure seems so, and I hope so. Quite a turnaround.... it's not a game any more.

I will work on that even further and then just be happy to school him a bit in competency with shooting skills, with that weapon in particular .... and run over all the minutiae regarding concealment, rigs etc. He has thus far a fairly suitable Fobus ... and seems to like it.

I am feeling better about this already.:)
 
Well, hot-headed was how I was when I bought my first gun, a Marlin 60. I was driving back home through some not-so-good neighborhoods with my friend in the passenger seat, and I remarked how safe I felt now that i finally had a gun. IIRC, I was rather cocky... until I got the diatribe much like what's been going on here. Now, I remember two quotes--one as a truth, whether referring to knowledge, truth, whatever; and the other as a warning.

"It's not the years, honey... it's the mileage." Indiana Jones, Raiders of the Lost Ark

"And now you see that evil will always triumph over good, because good is dumb." -Space Balls
 
History, the greatest teacher.

re: "display a passive show of force"


Remember the Liberator Pistol?

Cheap, stamped metal, single shot, smoothbore .45 pistol manufactured by General Motors. The US dropped them by the thousands, by parachute to resistance fighters in the European Theater during WWII.
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It's purpose was to enable 2 or 3 freedom fighters to walk right up to an obviously armed Axis soldier, shoot him point blank and take his weapon.
If open carry were more common the role of the Liberator would be taken on by the Lorcin.


Discretion IS the better part of Valor.
 

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True. I would also cite the Marine barracks bombing in Beirut in 1982 as well. One thing to remember is that if the bad guy wants you bad enough, he's going to get you no matter what defensive posture you take be it the unassuming look of innocence or the hard look of deterance. I think though here you are looking at an animal of a different color. On the one hand you have the crimminal that is looking for an oppertunity with as little risk as possible to himself. On the other hand you have freedom fighters (or terrorists depending on your point of view) that aren't out so much for themselves but out for a cause they believe in be it ridding themselves of the Nazis of driving the US out of Beirut. Here I think is where there is a big differece. Those that are willing to pull off attacks for their political, religious or idological goals are the harder ones to deter than the ones out for easy personal gains.
 
Chris,
Perhaps your friend would benefit from "reality".
We have own here ( and from TFL), whom have seen various "elephants".

And we all probably have read Road Rep:
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=126319&perpage=25&pagenumber=1

There is more to responsible firearm ownership than the GUNS, CCW.RKBA, training,...encompasses all lot of stuff. And as EL Tejon puts it so well :
There is problem one...
Then there is problem two..
 
those types are not isolated to your area. There everywhere - :uhoh: I really think that these people need to attend one of teh more noteworthy courses. Not one that's all shooting and nothing else (that'll just feed thier ego more), but a course that pounds the aspects of the mental side of the occurabce/responsibility. how many of these types would last at a class of Ayoob's? Most would run at the sight of blood. seriously, some people need a bit more maturity before getting theier CCW permit.
 
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