The Mind of the SHTF-er

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Jim Watson

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There are frequent gun board discussions of weapons for "SHTF" or "TEOTWAWKI."

The trend seems toward an infantry rifle - AR, AK, SKS, FAL - and a large supply of long shelf life packaged ammunition. Plus a sidearm and ammunition.

I have just wondered what situation is being prepared for.
Nuclear attack by Communist China or resurgent Russia?
Race riots when, as Fred On Everything said, the blacks and the latins fight it out for the inner cities?
Mass domestic terrorism by American and infiltrating Moslem Jihadists?
Opressive US government?
Ecological and social breakdown due to Anthropogenic Global Warming?

Please furnish scenarios being planned for under the SHTF heading.

Frankly, it sounds a lot like the Cold War Survivalist movement done on the cheap. The best I could tell, those people were arming and equipping to live after a nuclear exchange by banditry of people who actually had set back food, clothing, and shelter.
 
SHTF is about smaller duration events, that are more likely in my opinion. These usually include Bug Out Bag and supplies for a couple of days. Katrina was the kind of thing where BOB might have been useful. It also might be a snowstorm, or even a long power outage in the wrong area. Any kind of Riot qualifies as a good reason to get the heck out of dodge.


TEOTWAWKOI is more about Rambo fantasies in my opinion. It also serves as a reason to give the wife when she asks why I have 10,000 rounds of 223. It could happen for a lot of reasons, but all of them are very unlikely. Bird Flu, big space rock, country disintegrates, etc
 
My idea of SHTF planning is having an extra cell phone battery in case my cell dies in the middle oif a pizza order. :)

The survivalist movement is definitely back in force, although no one calls it that. But after events like Katrina, people are starting to realize that the government can't/won't do much in the event of a large scale diaster. Somehow, the idea of preparedness (the new buzzword) has come to include firearms.

In that case, partamilitary weapons have a certain appeal. They look cool, or course, and no one wants to be under-gunned. But they are also designed for a less forgiving environment than the typical target or hunting weapon. Deer don't shoot back, but when people start thinking about the possibility of other people, armed, trying to harm them, reliability suddeny becomes a huge fcator. And there' nothing like firepower either.

I look st SHTF scenarious as harmless mental excercizes - and you never know.

BTW, TEOTWAWKI is set for 2012, Decmeber 21.
 
Try living here in florida.
The SHTF senario is very real every hurricane season.
Think those signs you see that say "you loot, we shoot" are for fun?

AFS
 
SHTF and TEOTWAKI

Most people who are of the mindset of "preperation" don't have a definative answer for your question except to say, "yes".

Most people try to prepare for everything from a full scale Chinese invasion to Hurricane Katrina aftermath to "zombies".

Personally, I like to be prepared to survive any natural or unnatural disaster, such as Mother Nature or economic event (which is probably the two most likely events). Home grown/world wide terror and full invasion fall far down my list, but by being prepared to live for 3-6 months without any outside assistance could be beneficial in the event one of the latter episodes occur.

While I take keeping my family safe and preparing for the worst serious, I also know there is a lighter side and that most people look askance at those of us who prepare. However, more and more people are becoming aware of a need to be self sufficient, because as Katrina revealed, .gov will not always be there to help.
 
Not so much the first & last reasons but all of the rest.
It's not just the firearms but the ability to be self -sufficelt for an extended tim if necessary. This also could include a period of extended unemployment.
This already to my family a while back and we pulled through just fine. My wife thinks a lot differently about my "perperations" now.

Better safe than sorry.
 
Jim, I'm guessing something natural... Ebola breaks out of Zaire, something like that...

But then there's minor things.. Electric going out for a few days, big storms, earthquakes, etc...

Boomstick comes in handy, but ain't imperative...
 
Generally SHTF could be defined as any short term civil, military or environmental breakdown where, with basic "stuff", you can drive out, walk out or wait out the problem.

Katrina is a perfect example as are major floods anywhere or snow/ice storms in non urban areas.

"Stuff" would be

1. Methods of personal and home defense such as pistol, shotgun and to a lesser extent rifle.
2. Minimum of 72 hours of food, water and medicine for you, your family and pets, to a maximum of 7-10 days.
3. Basic first aid up to and including sutures (crazy glue is your friend here)
4. Basic lighting, portable heating and cooking facilities, solid fuel or camping gas
5. "Get up and go" bag or box with a small version of all the above, you might want to consider a roomy tactical vest with pouches or small back pack. A hell of a lot easier to move with than carrying a duffel.
6. Four things that any soldier will say are essential, Tabasco sauce, spare socks, black waterproof plastic garbage bags and soft toilet paper.....:cool:
 
Where I have to laugh is when someone claims to have 2000+ rounds loaded in magazines ...you know.....for when the SHTF

If chinese paratroopers land in my cul-de-sac , I am gonna be hiding...not trying to make them mad

Firearms have a place in disaster preparedness
 
If we get invaded by an enemy, I will both be hiding and fighting. Guerilla tactics are effective against people invading who are unfamiliar with the land...

I would like to be prepared for any possibility, from economic collapse to maybe even a civil war or invasion. But, my real goal is to be nearly or totally self-sufficient in a remote place (in Alaska). I plan on pursuing that goal next year, I've collected tools and supplies for a while and some money. If I attain my goal, I will by default be prepared for most possibilities...
 
The Modern Survival Trend seems to consist of anything and everything from health food fads to nuclear war shelters, from weird religions worshipping crystals to stockpiled wheat grinders, from people who're worried about the Avian Bird Flu or Civil War in the US to people who are worried about the next hurricane hitting the Gulf States or an earthquake in California.

People that are really into this kind of thing also seem to stockpile everything from food and water to gold and silver coins and bullion, from bullets to beans and from needles and thread to tools, jumper cables and guns.

I did a search to find these and this is what I came up with.

It just depends on what you consider a "Survivalist" and it depends on that particular person.

Most people that prepare for some sort of catastrophe are usually concerned about three different scenarios.

1) Natural Disasters like Hurricanes, Floods, Earthquakes, Large Scale Forest Fires, Tornados etc.

2) Man made disasters like Riots, Widespread Civil Disorder, Civil War, Invasion by a Foriegn Power, Race War, Economic Collapse or whatever.

3) Pandemics, Nuclear, Biological or Chemical War.

If you count by numbers most "Survivalists" are going to be from the first group. Most people worry about things and most are going to worry about average things like crime and regionally specific events from list number 1 (For example, Earthquakes if you live in California) and maybe the first couple items from list number 2.

Most people that I know have Earthquake or Hurricane Kits, some camping equipment and a few guns and some ammo. The difference just seems to be in mind set. Just look at the links below and see for yourself what people are preparing for.

For myself, the only scenarios that I'm worried about are everyday crime (like burglary, assault or robbery), roadside emergencies (like my wifes car breaking down and her being stranded), tornados (This is TX afterall), floods (we live right next to a large lake) or riots and civil disorder.

I don't think that the worlds going to end anytime soon. If something bad happens the world will still go on, it'll just suck for awhile like it always does and it's best to just have some stuff to make your life better until things are back to normal, but this is like anything else, if you go overboard on it you can seem like a freak jumping at shadows.

http://www.savvysurvivor.com/

http://www.survival-center.com/index.htm

http://www.backwoodshome.com/store/files/ss49.html

http://www.endtimesreport.com/

http://www.survivalistboards.com/

http://www.modernsurvival.net/

http://www.readyforanything.org/ipn_preparenow_book.html

http://www.infowest.com/business/g/gentle/gsurvival.html
 
Meteor Strike!

Having your area transported back in Time - 1632 or Island in the Sea of Time

Seriously :))) - Natural or man made disaster and government tyranny.
 
I don't know if this qualifies for any sort of SHTF mindset, but my mindset in life in general is sort of based on the whole Boy Scout "Be Prepared" thing.

Obviously I can't prepare for everything, but I figure it never hurts to have gas in the tank, extra non perishables in the pantry, and spare ammo around. I don't buy anything "extra" that I wouldn't normally use in everyday life.

If I stopped having any source of funds right now (including access to any savings) I could drive about 300 miles, eat for a couple weeks, and go work off some stress at the range.
 
To me, Katrina was a perfect example. Desperate people without food or lodging or punks looking to capitalize on the bedlam.
I've been around after many, many hurricanes and there are always a bunch of unsavory type people flood into a disaster area after the fact. Supposedly it's looking for work but crime also seems to go up too.
But, to be honest, I think a lot of people overdo it and use SHTF as justification to buy another gun. Heck, I've done it myself. That's how I justified my Glock.
I think everybody should own at least one hi-cap firearm. Just in case. Mostly for civil unrest but I don't plan to take on the red army.
 
I agree with the definitions of SHTF- a short term disruption of basic services and possibly social breakdown as well. Katrina seems to be the textbook example, but here in the STL area, I don't really concern myself with hurricanes. I would be more concerned about the New Madrid fault cutting loose again with a nice quake. There might be a couple weeks of unrest, and maybe even a few days of barbarism (in some areas; I don't expect it in my neighborhood), but that's about it.

So honestly, short of a bunch of canned food and bottled water, there isn't much for us to worry about. But I'll still try to keep at least 500 rounds of 7.62x39 and .22LR ammo on hand- sure, it isn't THAT much, but for anything even remotely likely, it's way more than enough.
 
most of the TEOWAKI and SHTF threads have to do with the upwelling of formerly repressed adolescent fantasies of arming and/or leading a group of determined survivors in the aftermath of some cataclysmic event.

i confess to having had the same dreams. and, living in a ban state doesn't help the overwhelming desire to stockpile for the Winter War.

that said, i've spent quite a bit of disaster gear and supplies. over the last 12 years i've bought all manner of equipment, mostly surplus. gas masks, camo netting, tents, mummy bags, mess kits, stoves, cold weather gear, mosquito netting, water bags, cast iron camp fire sets, cauldron tripods, fire starters, first aid supplies, surgical equipment, water purifiers, etc. the last purchase that I made was for a chinese hand crank generator and a field D cell phone. as i've made a little more money as ive gotten older ive spent more and more on equipment.

i am pretty much set up to survive in the event of anything short of a pyroclastic flow, tsunami, or direct meteor strike from the asteroid-hurling bugs on Beta Centauri IV.

given that i live in what is basically the desert, neither the pyroclastic flow nor the tsunami is very likely.

that said, i need to replace my water supplies. 12 years ago I started out with 2gallon jugs from arrowhead; in the last 4 years ive been using datrex water pouches. now i think i'm ready to try buying those big 50 gallon drums with the sphion hoses and water preserver tablets. if anyone knows a lot about water storage, please PM me.

...

ps: have you all noticed that the golden age of MREs and Squad Trays is now over? I used to be able to buy squad trays of chiken teriyaki or jumbalya shrimp for about 12 bucks. now i can't even find them. and MREs cost about $8 a meal now!

I miss the days of surplus MREs.
 
Nuclear attack by Communist China or resurgent Russia?
Click to expand...

An SKS would do little good. You'd need a fallout shelter, geiger counter, air filter system, back up generator, lots of food and water, plus those suits. Maybe 15 months to wait for things to cool off too.

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Actually you could use the SKS bayonet to skewer your roommates when you go nutty from cabin fever. Anyone here see "The Shining" ? :uhoh:
 

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isn't it obvious?

for when the martians(who are in cahoots with the canadians)land up north, and they invade america in a joint effort with the zombie ilegal aliens from mexico.
the russians take this opportunity while we are fighting the martian/canadian/zombie mexican threat from the north and south to land on our east coast and establish the eastern seaboard as a new colony for the mother country. unless we prepare, we're all going to have to flee to california to the west, where we shall have to make due with the low capacity, bayonetless excuss for rifles they have there. now which would you prefer?

where were you in high school history?:neener::neener::neener:

*insert gratuitous gunkid post here*
 
There are plenty of reasonable scenarios that one should prepare for by buying semi-automatic, military-patterned rifles:

  1. Outbreak of a super virus that turns the neighbors into flesh eating zombie cannibals.
  2. Invasion by extraterrestrial intelligences looking for for a site for a new landfill.
  3. Incursion by rampaging barbarian hordes from the north, otherwise known as Canadian tourists.
  4. Massachusetts drivers on the highway.
  5. In-laws coming to visit.
 
I my case, I technically don't own a SHTF firearm. By that, I mean I didn;t by any gun I own for SHTF scenarios. I have many that will work in such an event.

I can recall Y2K when a number of people, who had never owned a gun, asked me what they should buy. I made reasonable suggestions, but also thought in terms of what I would like and could buy from them used after nothing happened. Got two guns this way. I should have bought a generator too. They were cheap, post Y2K.
 
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