The most OUTSTANDING custom 1911, EVER!

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OK..I'm selling EVERYTHING ..just to get a down payment together!
If it ain't the best looking custom Gov't model, It's sure as shootin' in the top 5 !!
 
Just out of curiosity, what's a ball park cost of something like that? Or am I allowed to ask?
 
I am with Nico. First class work, a lot of which I would not want done to MY gun. At least he didn't checker the hind end of the slide which is a "feature" I would pay to have ground off if you gave me one.
 
If it was inherantly that accurate then the cartridge would be used a lot in BullsEye competition.
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Not necessarily, there is no division within conventional pistol shooting that the .38 Super would have an edge in. It would only enter NRA Centerfire where the usual gun is either a .38 Special or a .45 ACP which can be used in both Centerfire and Bigbore.

There was one gunsmith who built a fully accurized Super with the chamber bushed and recut to headspace on the casemouth before such aftermarket barrels were available. He said it shot as accurately as a .38 Special conversion with less gunsmithing and standard magazines. But you had to get brass and dies when they were less readily available than they are now and be sure to pick up your empties.

Here are a few pics of Stan's latest build!
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I like it better, fewer flutes and all the same color. I like the mag well funnel, too.
 
It used to mean more when you knew that the pistolsmith had done the work by hand, and even if a mill was used the mill cuts were figured out in his head, the math done on a notepad, and the cuts sometimes a little bit off.
 
krs,
So you would prefer something less than perfect?
And how do you think the process of writing the program to execute those cuts works?
Believe me, you don't just doodle your pattern of a sheet of paper and then feed it into a scanner on the mill.
 
I'll put it like this Chuck, a while back someone found and was able to buy one of he first, if not the actual first pistol that Jim Garthwaite (I hope I got his name right, but I'm completely lousy with names) did for hire.

It was a pistol apparently built for bullseye shooting - checkered forestrap, and according to the new owner, still as tight as a drum. A pretty plain looking old government model with a set of adjustable sights.

What got me about the pistol was the leather pads on the bottom of the two mags that the buyer had gotten with the gun. They looked like they were glued on and were kinda rough around the edge the way a piece of leather might cut if you do it with a well used pocket knife.

Well, he'd signed the gun, but I couldn't tell you now what mark was used by him, and no doubt somebody had paid him a pretty sum for a gun that shot better than most. The insides were polished through and through, and you couldn't find a file mark. There wasn't a square millimeter that hadn't been worked by someone's hand, Jim's hands, and yeah, I do know a bit about getting a design to a file on disk.
 
After several years now, I am still awaiting how the magic occurs about taking a less than ideal Colt and making it into a precision instrument as described...

Pretty guns. I wish I did pretty.
 
Well perhaps I'm getting old and crotchety....uhhhh....no perhaps, I am!
;)
But what I'm trying to figure out is why you want to talk about crude leather basepads, rather than give Stan a compliment?
And believe me when I say that the work on the frontstrap, mainspring housing and slide top involved a HECK of a lot more than "getting a design to a file on a disk". Any idea how much work is involved in calculating the tool paths for the frontstrap alone? Think about it a minute..........a diagonal line running across a radius?
Anyways, I'm not looking for a fight. I'm just a bit bewildered.
:confused:
 
RogersPrecision said:
Anyways, I'm not looking for a fight. I'm just a bit bewildered. :confused:
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Chuck,

Some folks just live to criticize. Or, because he wouldn't spec out a feature on his gun, he can't appreciate what something took to produce. I can appreciate good work, even if it's not my cup of tea.

I know Jim Garthwaite personally. Spent time in his shop, worked along side him for a week on 1911 build of my own.


I'll give him a compliment. Your friend here has talent. That took a lot of skill and attention to detail to make something so nice.
 
Think about it a minute..........a diagonal line running across a radius?
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Not to mention using those lines to form another symmetrical pattern (the big X) on the frontstrap and the MSH. Very impressive work.
 
It's funny Chuck...when I saw this post I was hurrying to the end to post those pics of Stan's last build.

I simply cannot fathom the amount of imagination, trial and error, and downright grit and determination required for Stan to pull off the MSH and front strap treatment alone, much less the rest of the fine pistol!

And for the record, I've seen a dozen or more of your own creations that fall into that exact same category. I'm guessing that's where the "precision" in Roger's Precision comes from, huh? :)

Heady stuff, indeed, gentlemen!

-Matt
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersPrecision
Anyways, I'm not looking for a fight. I'm just a bit bewildered.

Chuck,

Some folks just live to criticize. Or, because he wouldn't spec out a feature on his gun, he can't appreciate what something took to produce. I can appreciate good work, even if it's not my cup of tea.

I know Jim Garthwaite personally. Spent time in his shop, worked along side him for a week on 1911 build of my own.
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Well, if Jim is alive I'm glad to hear it, but it amplifies what I said about names. It was my impression at the time I saw that gun that the artist who'd worked it was no longer with us. So if Jim has never done leather pads for his magazines pass my apology for mixing him into this, would you? It was another gunsmith's work.
 
I don't understand the agony over leather base pads or measuring the quality of a gunsmith's work by their appearance after years of use.

"Installation" of a leather base pad is hardly a gunsmith job anyhow. The usual recommendation in the day was to find a piece of sole leather, buy a tube of Barge brand rubber cement and make your own. Probably what was done here. There is no need for a magazine base pad on a bullseye gun in the first place and it would probably not be allowed on a hardball gun by NRA in the second place. I suspect somebody diverted it to early days IPSC and glued on his own pads.
 
Ok, let me say that I am really going to try and "tip-toe" around this one here because I don't want to take sides.

I understand what "krs" is saying. I don't personally like designs either that look like this. It completely takes away from MY idea of a custom firearm. I appreciate it...but I don't like it. I don't like fluting either.

In a good custom gun, one is able to see the beauty without the flash. That is what MY opinion is. I appreciate all of the hands-on work. The bluing. The wood. The accuracy. But I don't like excessive machine designs.

Machines don't create beauty to me. They may create "precision" of some sort. However, they CAN'T create art.

I guess it's just boils down to what appeals to certain people. For instance, I HATE stainless and black plastic (let alone camo). Talk about UGLY. However, it appeals to certain people. This custom gun does not appeal to me because besides the bluing job and the grips, nothing seems to be custom or aesthetically pleasing.

My 2 pennies...
 
don't understand the agony over leather base pads or measuring the quality of a gunsmith's work by their appearance after years of use.

"Installation" of a leather base pad is hardly a gunsmith job anyhow. The usual recommendation in the day was to find a piece of sole leather, buy a tube of Barge brand rubber cement and make your own. Probably what was done here. There is no need for a magazine base pad on a bullseye gun in the first place and it would probably not be allowed on a hardball gun by NRA in the second place. I suspect somebody diverted it to early days IPSC and glued on his own pads.
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Jim, there's no 'agony' over them. That post was made at 5:57 pm. my dinner is put on the table at 6:00 sharp, I had to take a leak and I had to be there. It was the only way I could think to describe the hands-on work that I call craftsmanship in the alloted time. The particular example is meaningless but I don't think the premise is - there's much that's lost in these machine made wonders, however skillful or difficult the programming that does them.

It's still programming and thus no different than the newest design on the dashboard of the latest edition of a FORD Taurus for the 2009 model introduced at whatever trade show with all the lights, fanfare, and other hoopla some marketing asshat (I learned a new word from a self describer) can devise to convince us of the marvels we behold.

I say phooey to it, that's all, and I'll call the attention of the forum back to my first comment, made before I was called a name for having an opinion, which was to the effect which I've now amplified unnecessarily because I'm pissed off at this BS and the idea that I should kowtow before the latest iteration of machine command. Phooey again, they all look too much the same to me.



(and, BTW, today is day three of my wife and I kicking a 45 year habit)
 
Well, everybody is entitled to his own opinion, and you are not alone. Some time ago I read one gunzine scribe to say he did not feel he had his money's worth unless the gunsmith had tennis elbow from hand checkering. But I was not offended when the guy I use got tired of that crap and built a machine checkering setup.

My indoor sport is pointing out stuff on the Gunsmith & Customer Internet & Gunzine Brag Pictures that I would not want on a gun of mine. There is a lot of stuff the shops are doing now that I would not pay for. Some of it I would pay to have deleted.

(Congratulations to your transition to a celibate marriage.)
 
Congratulations to your transition to a celibate marriage
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Oh no, you misunderstood me. That agreement is years old, this new effort is to stop smoking cigarettes. I'll pass along your congratulations, nevertheless, and Thanks!
 
RogersPrecision said:
Guys,
I just had to share this!
Stan Chen, remember that name.
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Chuck, I see that you still post around here from time to time. Just wanted to say, "Good call!" :D

It's amusing to read the (few) skeptical comments from years ago now that Stan Chen is indeed regarded among his peers, and among buyers of the highest-end custom 1911s, as being at the very top of the craft. I thought you might have decided to give this thread another bump after the American Handgunner article on Stan last month, but I see that you're too modest for a good old "I told you so!", so I'll do it for you.
 
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