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The Motives of Those Who Would Disarm Us

Discussion in 'Legal' started by Dave R, Feb 13, 2004.

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  1. Dave R

    Dave R Member

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    For the 2nd time in memory, I find myself disagreeing with Jeff Cooper. (That is not what this thread is about).

    In his current commentaries, he opines about the motives of those who would disarm us. I think he arrives at the wrong conclusion. Here’s what the Good Colonel says (excerpted).

    I believe this is an appropriate forum to discuss this. Cooper’s conclusion:

    I think he's wrong. My opinion is that it is all about power and control. Those who would disarm us simply want absolute control. They do not want us to have the ability to resist. They will never admit it. They will feign shock that I could even suggest such a thing. But that is my belief. I think Cooper may even agree with me, too. Later in the same Commentary, he says this:

    I believe that is spot-on. The UN, and the socialist liberals (which includes some Republicans, and excludes some Democrats) do not want the citizenry to be able to resist their will.

    What do you think of the motives of those who would disarm us? Envy? Absolute control? Or simply misguided emotion?
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2004
  2. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    I have no doubt envy is part of the motivation for anti-Second Amendment bigotry.

    In my experience, people who seek to deprive others of their intrinsic human rights tend to be angry, controlling, resentful, bitter, deeply unhappy people. They live in fear, and their deepest, darkest fears seem to be of the chaos within themselves. They tend to control others to avoid dealing with their own inward demons. They're authoritarian because they find comfort in external order to compensate for the disorder within themselves. They're deathly afraid they're not good enough. They're secretive. They live in terror of being laughed at, ridiculed, not taken seriously, dismissed. They punish. They demand. They require. They seem unable to live and let live. Their professed notions of "tolerance" and "fairness" are exclusive and demeaning. They believe they win when others lose. They don't forget slights or wrongs. They seem to know there's something wrong with them, and so huff and puff their way through life. They know there's not much chance anyone would ever love or respect them, so they content themselves with fear. They'll do anything to get even.

    Scratch a bully, find a coward.
     
  3. sm

    sm member

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    Standing Wolf, well written !

    Moderators, I would like to suggest Thread title : The Motive of Those Who Would Disarm Us and Standing Wolf's response be put in the Library.

    I feel this belongs with other well written works as written by Lendsringer, Dennis Bateman, et al.
     
  4. geekWithA.45

    geekWithA.45 Moderator Emeritus

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    I think...that's the most Standing Wolf ever wrote in one post, and he saved up all his good stuff for it.

    Mods: I second the motion.
     
  5. R-Tex12

    R-Tex12 Member

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    Extraordinarily well said, Standing Wolf! I wholeheartedly agree with the Library suggestion.

    R-Tex
     
  6. Michigander

    Michigander Member

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    The King James Bible does not state that money is the root of all evil. It states, "...the love of money is the root of all evil..." Money is power. The love of money is the love of power. I believe Dave R is correct.

    I'm not going to re-quote Standing Wolf here, it is indeed a most excellent post. However, after reading it I began to wonder who he was actually describing? To me, the description is of the sheeple, those who do not think, those who do not want to think and want others to think for them. In all this, I totally agree.

    However, I feel our greatest enemy are those who use the sheeple Standing Wolf so eloquently described. Those who fan the flames of fear so sheeple remain and/or become discontent with firearms and firearms laws as if they were the cause of crime and injustice. Those who woo their votes in order to obtain the power over others. It is those people, although many fewer in number, who I believe do think and do know exactly what they're doing that trouble me the most. I do not believe all those who would infringe our human rights are simply envious, angry, bitter, unhappy etc. The sheeple clamour for outward order, while their leaders tell them that they will obtain this order for them and in the meantime the leader's actions attempt to decrease order so that the sheeple's fear remains or increases.
     
  7. zpo

    zpo Member

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    I was gonna respond, but Standing Wolf did it so well....
     
  8. 7.62FullMetalJacket

    7.62FullMetalJacket Member

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    Well said, Standing Wolf

    I stand in awe.

    Colonel Cooper is right. You just need to look a little deeper.

    They ENVY our control over our own destiny. Being armed means that we can repel their control over us.
     
  9. ThreadKiller

    ThreadKiller Member

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    These thread hints at the powerful message contained within the pages of Ayn Rand's colossus, "Atlas Shrugged." In that tale of Left vs Right, Socialism vs Capitalism, we meet head on what it is that motivates the leaders of the Left. It is envy, my friends, nothing less than envy.

    The ethos of "self", built on a foundation of self determination and self reliance, frightens the Left. They doubt their own ability to achieve and mock the man who stands up on his own two hind legs and shouts "I can."

    Competent men understand and glory in their independence.

    Who is John Galt?

    Tim
     
  10. Bob Locke

    Bob Locke Member

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    I had a thought along these lines the other day (and S.W. pretty well said it):

    Those who want to take away our guns want to be able to freely use force to impose their will upon us.
     
  11. HunterGatherer

    HunterGatherer member

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    I too stand in awe.
     
  12. Mulliga

    Mulliga Member

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    Yup, quite nice, Standing Wolf :). Another entry for THR library...

    Envy was written about by none other than John Ross in "Unintended Consequences" (the fellow in the gun store, and the part where the customs agent tries to take away the hunting rifle). It's certainly present in the disarmament movement, but I believe there are many forms of envy...

    There are some who envy others not for their posessions, but for the pure ideals and emotions that others feel when they have those posessions. To Dianne Feinstein, a fine English double rifle is not a work of art, not a way to feed your family, not a means of securing liberty, but a liability, an accident waiting to happen.

    There are some people who are celebrities, who have millions of dollars, who have more time and money than most of us could ever dream about, and yet they still go unarmed. They sit in spas, or play golf, or drive expensive cars, because they don't know what to do with their money. To them, guns are ugly, dirty things, to be wielded only by bodyguards and servants, while the great mass of men should never have them.

    And then there are those people who fear themselves, who think that within every person lies a killer. These are the mothers who picket concealed carry reform in Wisconsin, these are the columnists who worry about road rage and "crimes of passion," these are the people who see mass murderers in ordinary human beings. True, many of the most infamous killers have had clean records before their killing sprees, but it is impossible to read men's minds.

    The principles of this country used to be, "It is better to let ten guilty men go than to imprison one innocent man." Unfortunately, the people in charge of this country in the 21st century are forgetting about that second part.
     
  13. TheBluesMan

    TheBluesMan Senior Member

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    Standing Wolf - I suggest that you send that in to Guns & Ammo Magazine(they still have Cooper's commentaries, I think). It is very well written and I think they would publish it.
     
  14. JitsuGuy

    JitsuGuy Member

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    I recently stated this in another thread... But through-out the past 6000 years or so of civilization, governments have become tyrannical... All of them. One only needs a good understanding of the past to understand the present and the future. Look at the examples in history, Russia is a prime example. If you think there are no longer people out there who want to control EVERYTHING then you're profoundly wrong. America my friends is not at all immune from tyranny in government. The real goal, as stated by Dave R is that they do want total control. That IS tyranny. They'll use the crime card till they're blue in the face as their motive, but we all know that is incorrect... Again, look at the historic examples of gun control and it's outcomes.

    Our worst enemy may not be "terrorists." It' may be those that slowly and surly tighten the noose year after year around the neck of our freedoms. Oh, but it's all for "security" purposes of course... But then again, we know what B. Franklin had to say about that...

    "They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security." B. Franklin

    The Patriot Acts are a perfect example of this... There are already many states that will not abide by the rules outlined in the Patriot Acts because they paint too broad a brush and they do so all in the name of "security."

    Our founding fathers weren't stupid... They knew the nature and tactics of government well.

    J
     
  15. ReadyontheRight

    ReadyontheRight Member

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    Outstanding!

    Well said Standing Wolf!

    Thank you.
     
  16. 4570Rick

    4570Rick Member

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    I would not dream of trying to re-explain what Standing Wolf expressed so eloquently.
    Kudos S W;)
     
  17. artherd

    artherd member

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    OK, I'll play.


    "You cannot enslave a free man. The worst you can do is merely kill him"
    -Robert A. Hienlien

    The fearsom power a truely free man has is immense. For he and those like him will never go quietly into the night, he will never bow to threats idle or manifest, he will never ever surrender.

    The very nature of the truely free renders enslavement a non-option, for the dead will never work your fields.


    The Free Man has the first and last say in his or her own destiny. She and He can walk proud and tall, and Boldly Go forth in life with the confidence and serenity afforded only one who cannot be compromised.


    There are those who lack this compunction, this peace, this freedom. They are full of compromise, willing to accept grose indignity and to live in fear, if it means as little as being guarenteed 3 square meals a day withought worry.

    There are people who cannot see the peace, the conviction, the whole-ness and love with which truely free men live. They can only see the power and the command with which others walk this earth, and desire it for their own.

    They do not understand this power, for it is not within them. They cannot wield it, and yet desire it all the more, for it shakes them to their very core of inadequacy and misheaving.

    Instead, they strike out at the enablers of power. Thinking that by whittleing away at our tools, they will find mere souls as weak as their own, finally us as their equals.


    If they only knew how deeply mistaken they are, for they are calling a bluff that was never made. We will never be their equal, because we can-not, will-not, be enslaved.


    Like those who know no language, they seek to remove pens for fear of the power they see weilded by those trained in their art.

    If they only knew how deeply mistaken they are, for true power lies not in the pen or the sword, but the mind which directs the hand which wields it.
     
  18. CaesarI

    CaesarI Member

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    here here!

    KJV Bible notwithstanding (Cooper's erudite enough to know it, and practical enough to know that the popular phrase, not the actual writing, is what matters), I further support the nomination movement of Standing Wolf's post. More true, eloquent and beautiful words have rarely been spoken.

    -Morgan
     
  19. atek3

    atek3 Member

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    I had a long chat with a gun banner. He said 'as a neuroscience student, humans are apt to follow irrational whims and self-control. During those times they can do crazy stuff like shoot or harm people.' The solution he said was a state monopoly on arms. I said what about vermont, where anyone can buy a gun private sale, and tuck it, loaded, in their waist band and walk around. Why don't they have this 'crazy person' problem. Luck.

    On a lighter note, I asked how America was able to prosper under economic liberalism before the rise of big government, his answer... Luck. Hong Kong, bastion of economic liberty, grew from poverty to wealth in 3 generations... Also luck. Than I said, "And you are going to try and tell me that India, China, Russia, Africa, and EVERY OTHER EXAMPLE of statist economics in practice has failed because of a lack of luck?"
    His reply: "Just because it has failed every time doesn't mean it will continue to fail, we don't have enough data." :barf: Fascists...


    atek3
     
  20. seeker_two

    seeker_two Member

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    Another vote here for immortalizing Standing Wolf's prose...:cool:


    There are three types of people in this world...

    1. Those who want to control others (CONTROLLERS)
    2. Those who want to be controlled (SHEEPLE)
    3. Those who control themselves & resist the control of others (LIBERATED)

    The Controllers want to call the shots for everyone. And there are plenty of Sheeple who will let them for various reasons (security, entitlements, etc.) As a result, the Sheeple never really become competent in providing wealth, security, and sufficiency for themselves--they MUST rely on the good wishes of the Controllers. And, as long as they can be in charge of everyone, the Controllers are happy & providing.

    But they're never happy...thanks to the Liberated. :D

    The Liberated have one goal in mind--to determine their own path through life w/o having to rely or cow to enforced authority. They follow laws & rules not because they're forced to by the Controllers, but because that law or rule is MORALLY RIGHT. They'd rather earn their own way than take entitlements (& the attached strings) from the Controllers, and the Liberated provide their own security. They also offer to teach the Sheeple how to become Liberated.The Liberated rely on themselves and become quite capable and adept.

    And THAT scares the bejesus out of the Controllers. Here's a group that doesn't need their "goodies" to survive. As a result, they don't accept the "strings" that the Controllers attach to the "goodies" that let them control the Sheeple. And the Liberated judge the laws & rules of the Controllers based on a higher moral standard to determine what laws & rules will be followed. The word of the Controllers isn't enough justification for them. Worst of all, the Liberated teach the Sheeple how to become Liberated themselves--reducing the power of the Controllers.

    So the Controllers see the Liberated as the enemy--and seek to destroy their enemy.

    The Controllers make rules & laws that the Liberated will resist. When they resist, the Controllers will use their Sheeple allies to force the Liberated into choosing their fate--comply or be defeated. The Liberated are faced with overwhelming odds and a moral dilemma. Some of the Liberated will fight to the bitter end, but many will accept the yoke of the Controllers & blend in with the Sheeple--at least in appearance.

    But the fire in the spirit of the Liberated always seems to stoke itself brighter in time. And it will burn bright again.

    (Please forgive my rants. Philosophy isn't my strong suit until after my second cup of coffee...:uhoh: )
     
  21. mp95bravo

    mp95bravo Member

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    in Awe...

    The more I read the posts here at THR, the more I am impressed. Everything is so passionate and well thought-out. And, the individual abilities of the members to so eloquently arrange their words is truly remarkable!

    I hope you are better than I when it comes to individual discussion...

    I usually get pissed off when talking to a gun-grabbing liberal and am not able to argue our points to any degree of success. Maybe that is an impossible task....

    ENVY and POWER; A combination since the stone age....



    KEEP YOU FRIENDS CLOSE....
     
  22. 7.62FullMetalJacket

    7.62FullMetalJacket Member

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    mp95bravo, Welcome to THR

    Keep reading. At some point in this exercise, after reading the arguments enough, they will flow like a sonata.
     
  23. Maimaktes

    Maimaktes member

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    Ain't tellin'.
    As much as I hate to gainsay Col. Cooper, whom I admire very much, whose books I have read, and who has kindly replied to several of my letters over the years, I find it pretty hard to believe that a gun-banner such as, say, Senator John Kerry, who is worth -- what? 700 or 800 million? -- who has dated movie stars, and who may very well be the next president, envies *me* because I own a few guns and would like to own some more.

    The same goes for senators Schumer, Feinstein, Kennedy, and all the rest of the fat cats. They *envy* one little broke, jobless, friendless man -- who probably couldn't get a date in a whorehouse if he knocked the door down with a wheelbarrow full of money, whose teeth are falling out like in _Papillon_ for lack of access to any sort of dental care or even proper hygiene facilities, whose general health is going down, whose 11-year-old car is hemmorhaging oil and antifreeze, who barely has a place to lay his head, who no longer even has any way to wash his clothing, and must just go dirty or *buy* new clothing if he wants something clean -- because he knows, or used to know, a little about guns and shooting and still owns a few guns (a few more than he can afford)? I'm sorry but it just doesn't scan.

    I don't much believe all the King's men in the BATFEces, the FBI, the FBI's marksmanship instructor at Quantico, Lon Horiuchi, or the FBI's HuRT team in general, or any "high-speed, low-drag" member of any big city or small town SWAT team, envies me.

    I don't believe the fat, tobacco-spitting deputy who has me pulled over on the side of the road, cooking me in the literally blinding, _Close Encounters of the Third Kind_-like glare of his super-duper roof rack spotlights as I wait for him to run my plates, do a warrant check, and write me a ticket, envies me.

    What's envy got to do with it? My strong impression is that all the above-mentioned hold me in absolute and utter contempt. I don't believe they even fear me. If they pretend to, it is only to justify killing me.

    Maimaktes
     
  24. ReadyontheRight

    ReadyontheRight Member

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    One day there was a fire in a wastebasket in the Dean's office and in rushed a physicist, a chemist, and a statistician. The physicist immediately starts to work on how much energy would have to be removed from the fire to stop the combustion. The chemist works on which reagent would have to be added to the fire to prevent oxidation. While they are doing this, the statistician is setting fires to all the other wastebaskets in the office. "What are you doing?" they demanded. "Well to solve the problem, obviously you need a large sample size" the statistician replies.


    :)
     
  25. HunterGatherer

    HunterGatherer member

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    "Caeca invidia est" is the way the ancient Romans put it. It means envy is blind. Meaning that in their maddening thirst for what others have, those who envy are blinded, and thus would be unable to enjoy those things even if they were to gain them. Or as Bishop Thompson put it, "Base envy withers at another's joy, and hates the excellence it cannot reach."

    Put yourself in the head of a gungrabber for a moment. What is it that they fear? Are they really so irrational as to fear an inanimate object like a gun? NO! Standing Wolf pinpointed exactly what they fear: "and their deepest, darkest fears seem to be of the chaos within themselves." So where does envy come in? They see us, especially those of us who have carried guns - every day for years - they see our resolve, and our self-restraint, and they envy us and hate us for it. How dare we walk down the street and not gun down strangers for an insignificant slight, as they say we would do when the talk about "blood running in the streets" or when they say a place will "turn into Dodge City" if CCW is allowed.

    No, despite his years, or more likely because of them, the good Colonel is still hitting the X.

    And I nominate Standing Wolf as a worthy replacement for the Colonel when such a thing inevitably becomes necessary.
     
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