CountGlockula
Member
More .40s for me!!!
It'll be around since its issued to most LEOs.
It'll be around since its issued to most LEOs.
The move back to 9mm accelerates
- Thread starter Newton
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johnnylaw53
Member
We went from the 9mm to the .357 sig about 10 years ago. Since then it seems the scores have gone down when we qulified. The reason being i think is we use to shoot 4 times a year now it is just once. Been told it due to the cost of ammo. Most of the officers use to also shoot more on thier own with the 9's I have heard alot say they don't get to shoot as much now days due to cost.
dhoomonyou
Member
Its due to the cost of ammo.
Walmart has Winchester white box 9mm at $20 per 100
the same brand in 40 SW is $30 per 100, and 45 acp is $33 per 100.
I wont sell my 40, BUT I am shooting it a LOT less, range sessions now are approx 150-200 rounds of 9mm, and no more than 50 of 40 and or 45.
22LR is getting a workout in my stable.
Walmart has Winchester white box 9mm at $20 per 100
the same brand in 40 SW is $30 per 100, and 45 acp is $33 per 100.
I wont sell my 40, BUT I am shooting it a LOT less, range sessions now are approx 150-200 rounds of 9mm, and no more than 50 of 40 and or 45.
22LR is getting a workout in my stable.
Our Walmart has 50 rnd. Blazer Brass at $9/9mm, $12.50/.40 and $15/.45. WWB 100rnd. at $20/9mm, $30/.45 (can't recall the .40 price.) I guess I should buy up some more WWB .45 before they raise the price.
Works out to .18 cents a round for 9mm, .25 cents a round for .40 and .30 cents a round for .45. For $50 bucks you can shoot 278 9mm rounds, or 200 .40 rounds or 167 .45 rounds. Over a 100 more rounds of 9mm than .45.
Works out to .18 cents a round for 9mm, .25 cents a round for .40 and .30 cents a round for .45. For $50 bucks you can shoot 278 9mm rounds, or 200 .40 rounds or 167 .45 rounds. Over a 100 more rounds of 9mm than .45.
KBintheSLC
Member
If I'm gonna spend the extra money on a .40 caliber round, it needs to have a 10mm auto casing pushing it along. In general, the 40S&W only delivers about 100 FT/LBS more energy than a 9mm+P. Not to "diss" the 40 SW... that still equals 25-30% more energy more than the 9mm. But the difference was not enough to convince me to ditch my 9's and get a 40 SW.
So, my logic is that if I have to spend the extra money, should I not get double the energy of the 9mm by using a 10mm auto?
9mm = upper 300's FT/LBS
40 SW = upper 400's - lower 500's
10mm Auto = mid to upper 700's
So, my logic is that if I have to spend the extra money, should I not get double the energy of the 9mm by using a 10mm auto?
9mm = upper 300's FT/LBS
40 SW = upper 400's - lower 500's
10mm Auto = mid to upper 700's
CZF
Member
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 2,034
I dumped my .45 ACPs due to the high cost of ammo and also reloading components.
Have settled on 9mm and 10mm, with about 1,200 10mm reloads
in reserve.
After they are gone. I'll still want to buy factory 10mm over the .45 ACP that is old and slow, compared to the mighty TEN!
However, I do wish to eventually get a .357 SIG barrel for
my Witness.
I've seen insanely low prices on such JHP ammo such as Ranger T in .357 SIG at Gunshows.
Have settled on 9mm and 10mm, with about 1,200 10mm reloads
in reserve.
After they are gone. I'll still want to buy factory 10mm over the .45 ACP that is old and slow, compared to the mighty TEN!
However, I do wish to eventually get a .357 SIG barrel for
my Witness.
I've seen insanely low prices on such JHP ammo such as Ranger T in .357 SIG at Gunshows.
wristtwister
Member
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2008
- Messages
- 419
Too many 9's
I've got too many 9mm caliber guns right now, and fixing to get one more. I've got 7 of them , and I've got a friend who's getting rid of a Ruger P95 for $175, which is too good to pass on. I shot it at the range a few months back, and it's a good "car gun". My problem is that I can't stay supplied with 9mm ammo. I can burn 500 rounds in a couple of trips to the range, and if I shoot many of my guns at one sitting, I can burn a ton of ammo. I've got several I keep as "collector pieces", but I shoot all of them.
I'm looking to get another .44 magnum, but it might be that I just trade a couple of the 9's for one. 9's are a lot of fun, but you can't shoot through a car engine with one... the .44 will do it in a heartbeat.
Just remembered...If you count my 9x18's , I have 9 of them, a Mak and a PA-63... they're "sorta" 9mm...
You can never have too many guns, too much money, or too much ammo...
WT
I've got too many 9mm caliber guns right now, and fixing to get one more. I've got 7 of them , and I've got a friend who's getting rid of a Ruger P95 for $175, which is too good to pass on. I shot it at the range a few months back, and it's a good "car gun". My problem is that I can't stay supplied with 9mm ammo. I can burn 500 rounds in a couple of trips to the range, and if I shoot many of my guns at one sitting, I can burn a ton of ammo. I've got several I keep as "collector pieces", but I shoot all of them.
I'm looking to get another .44 magnum, but it might be that I just trade a couple of the 9's for one. 9's are a lot of fun, but you can't shoot through a car engine with one... the .44 will do it in a heartbeat.
Just remembered...If you count my 9x18's , I have 9 of them, a Mak and a PA-63... they're "sorta" 9mm...
You can never have too many guns, too much money, or too much ammo...
WT
Blues Brother
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 248
I will not diss the 40 or 45 by ANY means. I think they are both great rounds, but I just really like the economy of the 9. its cheaper to shoot, so you can practice with your carry gun(s). I like the $$ of the 9.
tinygnat219
Member
What I don't understand is people trading in good firearms for new firearms just to save a couple of bucks on ammo. All I have done is simply shelve the firearms I used to shoot all the time, and increased my .22 shooting. I also take advantage of sales when I can on other ammo and buy in bulk.
Blues Brother
Member
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2008
- Messages
- 248
People knee jerk react to everything Tinygnat. everthing.
I work at a car dealer in the office, and you would not believe the amount of people that freak out over gas prices and trade their truck for a car and take a beating on the trade in value, and pay sales tax, etc... just to save $500 a year on gas.
I have never understood that. people are a trip.
I work at a car dealer in the office, and you would not believe the amount of people that freak out over gas prices and trade their truck for a car and take a beating on the trade in value, and pay sales tax, etc... just to save $500 a year on gas.
I have never understood that. people are a trip.
orionengnr
Member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2005
- Messages
- 5,713
Hmmm...
I've been getting out of 40s slowly but surely for the last ten years. Finally sold the last one (G-23) about two years ago. Had nothing to do with economy per se, but ammo costs have had an impact.
I realized that with 9s and 45s I no longer had a reason to keep a 40. To be more concise, my carry nine is smaller, and my 45s shoot better. I reload 45, and have adequate reserves of 9mm.
Same deal with 44 Spl....rendered redundant and difficult to justify anything I don't carry or shoot regularly.
Gone, gone, all gone.
I've been getting out of 40s slowly but surely for the last ten years. Finally sold the last one (G-23) about two years ago. Had nothing to do with economy per se, but ammo costs have had an impact.
I realized that with 9s and 45s I no longer had a reason to keep a 40. To be more concise, my carry nine is smaller, and my 45s shoot better. I reload 45, and have adequate reserves of 9mm.
Same deal with 44 Spl....rendered redundant and difficult to justify anything I don't carry or shoot regularly.
Gone, gone, all gone.
Mountie855
Member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2008
- Messages
- 170
Like Orion and some others, I have reduced my calibers to 9mm, 38/357, 44Mag. Simplifies things, and all are inexpensive to load for. They do all that I need (want) to do!
+1 on the end of the AWB and the resurgence of the 9mm. Ten rounds of 9mm -vs- ten rounds of 40 S&W -vs- seven to ten rounds of 45 ACP and it isn't hard to figure out why the 9mm was less popular during the Cinton years.
I think a lot of the trade-ins are police and LE trade-ins, it's not that the civilian market doesn't want them, it's just that there is a saturation in the market right now. It's a good time to buy a 40 S&W IMO.
I think a lot of the trade-ins are police and LE trade-ins, it's not that the civilian market doesn't want them, it's just that there is a saturation in the market right now. It's a good time to buy a 40 S&W IMO.
People are going with 9MM simply because of ammo cost, wether you buy ammo or reload. I can buy .45 bullets for the same money as .40, and since I love shooting the .45, the .40 hardly gets shot now. 9MM brass is basically free, and the bullets are much cheaper than .40 or .45.
I bought an AR in 9MM. I had wanted one for a while, but ammo prices helped it along. I traded a .357 for another .22 LR pistol. It's way cheaper to shoot. I did sell my 1911 in 9MM, but only because I wanted an all steel one. I just haven't found the right one yet, but I will.
I bought an AR in 9MM. I had wanted one for a while, but ammo prices helped it along. I traded a .357 for another .22 LR pistol. It's way cheaper to shoot. I did sell my 1911 in 9MM, but only because I wanted an all steel one. I just haven't found the right one yet, but I will.
Not sure I see the point of the trades. I bet 99% of America goes to the range less than once a month. Maybe even less than once a quarter. So they are giving up ballistic performance to save maybe $100 a year in ammo. Even my buddies who others would call "gun nuts" always rag on me saying their 9mm ammo is so much cheaper, yet THEY don't even go to the range more than once a quarter.
BlindJustice
Member
I picked up a CZ 75B in 9MM Luger 9x19 or as it was originally
named the 9MM Parabellum. The CZ is everything users and reviews
have said it to be, reliable, and very accurate. I got it for a range
gun so I can cut back on shooting just .45 ACP out of my 1911.
However, I like the CZ 75B in my bedstand better than my model 60
3" Bbl. .357 Mag. loaded with .38 SPecial +P. THe +P is very spendy
and the J-frame is only 5 shots compared to 15 + 1 of 147 gr. sub sonic
in the CZ 75B. I like the DOuble Tap 147 gr. Gold Dot JHPs at
1,100 fps still just under supersonic. My .45 ACP carry load is the
Double Tap 200 gr. Gold DOts at 1,100 FPS as well.
Beyond economy of the 9MMx19 the CZ 75B platform has the frame
mounted safety for similair handling as a 1911 with the DA first shot option
for grabbing out of the nightstand.
Can't justify a .40 S&W but it does seem a good cartridge
and my next semi-auto will be another 1911 in .45 ACP.
I have noticed a big interest in a lower cost 1911 Commander
in 9MMx19 than are currently offered on the market.
Randall
named the 9MM Parabellum. The CZ is everything users and reviews
have said it to be, reliable, and very accurate. I got it for a range
gun so I can cut back on shooting just .45 ACP out of my 1911.
However, I like the CZ 75B in my bedstand better than my model 60
3" Bbl. .357 Mag. loaded with .38 SPecial +P. THe +P is very spendy
and the J-frame is only 5 shots compared to 15 + 1 of 147 gr. sub sonic
in the CZ 75B. I like the DOuble Tap 147 gr. Gold Dot JHPs at
1,100 fps still just under supersonic. My .45 ACP carry load is the
Double Tap 200 gr. Gold DOts at 1,100 FPS as well.
Beyond economy of the 9MMx19 the CZ 75B platform has the frame
mounted safety for similair handling as a 1911 with the DA first shot option
for grabbing out of the nightstand.
Can't justify a .40 S&W but it does seem a good cartridge
and my next semi-auto will be another 1911 in .45 ACP.
I have noticed a big interest in a lower cost 1911 Commander
in 9MMx19 than are currently offered on the market.
Randall
BlindJustice
Member
Another factor in 'movement' to 9MMx19 are the newer offerings
in compact/sub-compact chambered for it. They are getting to be
the same size if not smaller than some older .380 ACP platforms.
The .380 ACP ammo costs more because of less demand.
At Wally World near me,
9x19 WWB 115 gr. FMJ is $18.50/100
WIN 147 gr. JHP is $16+/50
at a different shop
Rem 124 gr. FMJ/50 $12/50
Wally World - doesn't carry .45 ACP WWB
does have Rem Bulk 230 gr. JHP $36/100
I go to the range every 2-3 weeks, range membership
is $185/Year - no charge for visits. Non-Member 1 hour
session is $17 So, after 11 range sessions as a member
my per session cost will go below $17 per session.
I also always take my S&W 617 6" Bbl. 10 shot cyl. yeah,
it's economical but also just a favorite fun gun.
Randall
in compact/sub-compact chambered for it. They are getting to be
the same size if not smaller than some older .380 ACP platforms.
The .380 ACP ammo costs more because of less demand.
At Wally World near me,
9x19 WWB 115 gr. FMJ is $18.50/100
WIN 147 gr. JHP is $16+/50
at a different shop
Rem 124 gr. FMJ/50 $12/50
Wally World - doesn't carry .45 ACP WWB
does have Rem Bulk 230 gr. JHP $36/100
I go to the range every 2-3 weeks, range membership
is $185/Year - no charge for visits. Non-Member 1 hour
session is $17 So, after 11 range sessions as a member
my per session cost will go below $17 per session.
I also always take my S&W 617 6" Bbl. 10 shot cyl. yeah,
it's economical but also just a favorite fun gun.
Randall
BlindJustice
Member
Here for any of y'all that want to play
beat yer chest, and caliber war
---------------------------------------
Double Tap Ammo offeringss ALL Bullets Speer Gold Dots
.45 ACP ------- .40 S&W ---- 9mm Luger +P -
185 gr 155 gr. 115 gr.
1225 fps 1,275 FPS 1,415 FPS
616 ft lbs 560 ft. lbs 511 ft. lbs
200 gr. 165 gr. 124 gr.
1125 FPS 1,200 FPS 1,310 FPS
562 Ft lbs 528 fl lbs 473 ft lbs
230 gr. 180 gr. 147 gr.
1,010 FPS 1,100 FPS 1,130 FPS
521 FPS 484 ft lbs 421 ft lbs
The above numbers are for standard sized
platforms with service pistol bbl. len.
The 9MM +P are from a G17
such as the 115 gr. @ 1,415 FPS w/511ft lbs
In a G19 115 gr. @ 1,395 FPS
Let the comments commence...
R-
beat yer chest, and caliber war
---------------------------------------
Double Tap Ammo offeringss ALL Bullets Speer Gold Dots
.45 ACP ------- .40 S&W ---- 9mm Luger +P -
185 gr 155 gr. 115 gr.
1225 fps 1,275 FPS 1,415 FPS
616 ft lbs 560 ft. lbs 511 ft. lbs
200 gr. 165 gr. 124 gr.
1125 FPS 1,200 FPS 1,310 FPS
562 Ft lbs 528 fl lbs 473 ft lbs
230 gr. 180 gr. 147 gr.
1,010 FPS 1,100 FPS 1,130 FPS
521 FPS 484 ft lbs 421 ft lbs
The above numbers are for standard sized
platforms with service pistol bbl. len.
The 9MM +P are from a G17
such as the 115 gr. @ 1,415 FPS w/511ft lbs
In a G19 115 gr. @ 1,395 FPS
Let the comments commence...
R-
BlindJustice
Member
My shooting buddy has a G19 - he's been talking about getting a
.357 Sig. He then looked at the cost of .357 SIg ammo. but the clincher
to him was talking to a gun dealer. THe dealer said most of the .357 Sig
buyers from his store get the .357 SIg and after a couple of range sessions
are back asking about buying a .40 S&W barrel.
Randall
.357 Sig. He then looked at the cost of .357 SIg ammo. but the clincher
to him was talking to a gun dealer. THe dealer said most of the .357 Sig
buyers from his store get the .357 SIg and after a couple of range sessions
are back asking about buying a .40 S&W barrel.
Randall
JR47
Member
I simply shoot more .22 lr at each trip to the range. The basics are the same. My carry gun varies with clothing, but is most often a P32. No 250 pound zombie weight-lifters around here. In fact, crime is so low that even speeders are notable in the local paper.
I also CCW a Taurus PT101, and a Colt Officer's Model in .45 ACP. Each is shot on every range trip, probably three magazines of each.
Cheap ammunition won't make those who shoot once a year shoot more. That's a red herring. They shot once a year when 9mm was $6.00 a box.
Using Law Enforcement as a barometer is also bogus. It's not the cops who are survivors of shoot-outs picking the platform, or the caliber, it's the administrators and accountants. Money is God to them. The only time that caliber intrudes is the possibility of getting sued over it.
The military regards the pistol as REMF use. It's not designed for offensive use, except in very specialized cases, and isn't expected to be useful for more than the time it takes for appropriately armed forces to arrive.
Shoot what you want, it isn't going to make a bit of difference to anyone but you. I own a dozen 9mms, a half-dozen .40 S&W, and a dozen .45 ACP pistols. There are those that I shoot more than others, because of features that they possess. As far as caliber goes, you have to hit first, and smaller calibers tend to make that hit, and where you hit, more important.
I also CCW a Taurus PT101, and a Colt Officer's Model in .45 ACP. Each is shot on every range trip, probably three magazines of each.
Cheap ammunition won't make those who shoot once a year shoot more. That's a red herring. They shot once a year when 9mm was $6.00 a box.
Using Law Enforcement as a barometer is also bogus. It's not the cops who are survivors of shoot-outs picking the platform, or the caliber, it's the administrators and accountants. Money is God to them. The only time that caliber intrudes is the possibility of getting sued over it.
The military regards the pistol as REMF use. It's not designed for offensive use, except in very specialized cases, and isn't expected to be useful for more than the time it takes for appropriately armed forces to arrive.
Shoot what you want, it isn't going to make a bit of difference to anyone but you. I own a dozen 9mms, a half-dozen .40 S&W, and a dozen .45 ACP pistols. There are those that I shoot more than others, because of features that they possess. As far as caliber goes, you have to hit first, and smaller calibers tend to make that hit, and where you hit, more important.
elChupacabra!
member
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 562
Let me second the "Thank God I'm a reloader" crowd. Not 3 months ago I was buying my pistol ammo at WalMart - now, I'm rolling my own for the following costs:
9mm
Bullet - 8.2 cents
Primer - 2.5 cents
Powder - 2.0 cents
Brass - Free (range pickup / my own factory once-fired)
TOTAL - $0.127 / round
That's $12.70 / hundred
40S&W
Bullet - 10.3 cents
Primer - 2.5 cents
Powder - 2.0 cents
Brass - Free (same as above)
TOTAL - $0.148 cents
That's $14.80 / hundred
45ACP
Bullet - 11.7 cents
Primer - 2.5 cents
Powder - 2.0 cents
Brass - Free (same as above)
TOTAL - $0.162 cents
That's $16.20 / hundred
At these prices, I can afford to shoot whatever I want. 45ACP may be 30% more than reloaded 9mm, but it's STILL 20% less than factory 9mm at WM!
And, consider that if I cast my own boolits, that 8-11 cents for the bullet may go away entirely, as some out there scrounge their own lead, have a hookup, etc. Talk about economical!
Now before anyone kicks in about how expensive it is to get into reloading, consider the loss you will take when you sell your 40S&W and buy a new 9mm handgun. You could probably get well into reloading for that, and keep a gun you already know / like, and that has better ballistics!
9mm
Bullet - 8.2 cents
Primer - 2.5 cents
Powder - 2.0 cents
Brass - Free (range pickup / my own factory once-fired)
TOTAL - $0.127 / round
That's $12.70 / hundred
40S&W
Bullet - 10.3 cents
Primer - 2.5 cents
Powder - 2.0 cents
Brass - Free (same as above)
TOTAL - $0.148 cents
That's $14.80 / hundred
45ACP
Bullet - 11.7 cents
Primer - 2.5 cents
Powder - 2.0 cents
Brass - Free (same as above)
TOTAL - $0.162 cents
That's $16.20 / hundred
At these prices, I can afford to shoot whatever I want. 45ACP may be 30% more than reloaded 9mm, but it's STILL 20% less than factory 9mm at WM!
And, consider that if I cast my own boolits, that 8-11 cents for the bullet may go away entirely, as some out there scrounge their own lead, have a hookup, etc. Talk about economical!
Now before anyone kicks in about how expensive it is to get into reloading, consider the loss you will take when you sell your 40S&W and buy a new 9mm handgun. You could probably get well into reloading for that, and keep a gun you already know / like, and that has better ballistics!
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