The NRA needs to educate the people.

[10thVaCav]

Well, the NRA can't be relied upon to help defend the RKBA because it's the most effective gun control lobby we have in this country. Every single major federal gun control law on the books was endorsed by the NRA, including the infamous 1934 FFA. Their ILA writes much of the gun control legislation that is proposed, and many guncontrol bills have been co-sponsored by GOP politicians and written and endorsed by the NRA.

I agree with the poster who said that the NRA = the GOP. The two organizations are joined at the hip and have been since the formation of the NRA which was founded by two GAR members. The NRA has been known, many times in the past, to get out the vote for gungrabbers like Arlen Spector.

I see the NRA as the most successful shell game played upon truly conservative Americans since the GOP managed to gull conservatives into thinking that they are THE conservative party.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

I agree with the no mention of the NRA(for the bad feelings they bring up in people) and they have there hands full, another company is what you need. One that is new and no one knows about, thats your edge.

Rather than start up a new company, why not start small and build from there?


Work out some deal with THR members in your area, reserve a section of a range, and invite out a bunch of non-shooters.

If you know anyone who is a college student and pro-gun, they can use their student status to contact student groups on campus and invite them to the range. Better yet, a group of as few as three students can form a campus "Rifle and Pistol Club". Then they can hand out flyers, get a group together, and take them to the range for classes.

If you want more info on this, run a THR search with keyword "UTRPC" and check out what our group has done here at UT Austin. Over 400 students have come shooting with us since September, and most of those had never fired a gun before.

I'm starting to see our club T-shirts (with crossed rifle) being worn by guys and girls on campus and at parties. Bit by bit...

-MV

 

[velojym]

I ended my membership when I realized they'd cave as soon as legislation was passed, then add it to the 'over 20,000 gun laws' they needed to enforce.
Uh, no. My push would not be to support those laws, but to push for revocation. A century of allowing 'reasonable' inroads into liberty adds up to a lot in the end.
Compromise always costs, in terms of freedom lost.
(wow, I'm a poet! ....a really bad poet...)

 

[mindwip]

Its a good idea to get new shooters of course. But what we need is money. Money to send out ads before elections and through out the year. Thats what the company is for. Its not for those who are willing to shoot for the first time, but for those who have yet to meet anyone who shoot, and those to young to forum an idea about guns, and to speard the true facts about guns.

In a way its just an education to the mass poeple of the usa to not get them shooting. But to dispell the idea guns are bad. That way when someone like a friend says "hay want to go shooting", they are more apt to say yes. Or maybe not pass that anti gun law.

The company needs to do what Brady/MMM companys does, spread the word.

I do tell all my friends and who i meet about shooting, and lol they all like it and hae a gun or just cant afford one. I ran out of friends.

The object is to get poeple in the mind set so they go to your clubs.

 

[Silver Bullet]

Jeez, an unusually low signal-to-noise ratio in this thread.

For anyone doubting the NRA’s power on our behalf:

http://www.nramemberscouncils.com/siliconvalley/1805Results.html

Note in particular this quote from Feinstein (speaking of the NRA):

Quote:
"I'm a bit numb ... They had the power to turn around at least 60 votes in the Senate. That's amazing to me."
- Senator Feinstein as quoted in the NY Times 3/3/04

Since then, the gun-liability bill has been passed without the AWB renewal provision.

Anyone wanting more facts can carefully review this thread:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228378&page=3,

in particular posts #56 and #66.

 

[geekWithA.45]

There are a lot of Democrats that are not politicians..........but you can't become so heavily associated with one party and expect people from the opposition party to just except you with open arms.

To some extent, I agree with you, and I have some sympathy for the rank & file Dem who has lost control of his party.

The problem is that to whatever extent the rank and file non politician Democrat is gun friendly, or even simply not hostile to us, it was NOT reflected in the agenda and actions of his party since the mid 60's, which was and still is, deliberately and actively working to destroy the armed citizenry.

The Democratic leadership has been actively hostile to all but the tamest of deer and duck hunters. Handguns (and their owners) were officially demonized in the 60's & 70's, they were forced into disarray during the Reagan era in the 80's, and by the time they came back in the 90's, they'd given up on handguns as a front burner issue and officially demonized EBRs (and their owners).

The official policy of the DNC has been hostility to gunowners, and it has been that way for DECADES, althought they occassional take their foot off the gas when they think it's going to cost them votes.

Don't think for a minute though that they'll go for it when nobody's looking.

Here's the 52 senator who voted in favor of the renewal of the AWB in March, 2004:

Akaka (D-HI)
Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Breaux (D-LA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carper (D-DE)
Chafee (R-RI)
Clinton (D-NY)
Collins (R-ME)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dayton (D-MN)
DeWine (R-OH)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Durbin (D-IL)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Fitzgerald (R-IL)
Graham (D-FL)
Gregg (R-NH)
Harkin (D-IA)
Hollings (D-SC)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Lugar (R-IN)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Pryor (D-AR)
Reed (D-RI)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Schumer (D-NY)
Smith (R-OR)
Snowe (R-ME)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Voinovich (R-OH)
Warner (R-VA)
Wyden (D-OR)


9 Republicans, out of 51 voted to renew the AWB.
43 Democrats, out of 48, voted to renew.

A pattern like that is unmistakable. How can you expect the NRA to be anything other than hostile to them?

I'd done detailed analysis of their party platform starting in 2000. They show signs of ducking for political cover on RKBA, but even then, they leave themselves plenty of wiggle room:

http://geekwitha45.blogspot.com/2004_08_01_geekwitha45_archive.html#109392451704658177


My conclusion at the end of my most recent analysis was that the DNC 2004 platform was microscopically better on arms issues than in 2000, in that they'd gone into stealth mode and were trying to keep a low profile. I alsno noted and that if they kept getting slammed in the polls, they might be back to American baseline by 2012.

Now that they've NOT been slammed in the polls, I'm betting my traditional dollar that their 2006 platform will, at minimum, be incrementally worse than their 2004 platform, perhaps drawing even with their 2000 platform.

 

[Kim]

Yep the so called 2 Blue Dog Dems from Arkansas who both run as conservativew with support for the 2nd amendment both voted for gun control. They voted for something that has no way of passing in Arkansas by a mostly Dem Legislature but boy Oh boy on the National Level they are willing to stick it to everyone back home. Very few people really know how their Senators vote. We are stuck with these people. Unless Huckebee runs aganist and beats Pryor. But I doubt it. His advertisments are so down homey with his kids praying around the table. And he always speaks in a soft Oh chucks kind of voice. Just like his Daddy. He probably has his eye on the White House in the future. Just watch.

 

[benelli12]

i think the people should be more educated, and taken out to the range to shoot a .22 auto pistol and rifle. If they dont have fun.........
this probably has nothing to do with your posts, but i didn't read them all.
Im AM educated on the right to bear arms

 

[JohnBT]

"Well, the NRA can't be relied upon to help defend the RKBA because it's the most effective gun control lobby we have in this country."

Even though your claims aren't true, you're still trying to make it sound like it was the NRA who VOTED these bills into law. The NRA doesn't get a vote in Congress. They lobby, they propose, and they negotiate if necessary; much to the consternation of those who would prefer an immediate, final showdown at high noon with the winner taking all - say for instance we EITHER have guns outlawed, OR no gun laws. Heaven forbid, according to many here, that anybody would ever attempt to negotiate a middle ground to preserve the core of our right to own and use guns while we educate and organize. The people of the NRA do a great deal of hard work and you shout traitor. Shame on you for your shortsightedness and narrowmindedness.

I've never seen so much spin, negative spin, about the NRA anywhere this side of Democratic Underground.

And yes, NRA founding member Union General Ambrose Burnside was a republican. Funny thing is, that doesn't bother a lot of us Southerners. What's really wild is that he was quite the SOCIAL LIBERAL in his day. Read the following about the original NRA policy, or lack of policies as the case may be.

John
___________________________

"...the NRA was founded by Union officers who aimed to protect American liberty by fostering voluntary training in the responsible use of arms.
The NRA’s Articles of Incorporation were notable for what they did not contain: exclusionary clauses. In contrast to many of the other organizations and clubs created in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, the NRA had no restrictions on membership based on race, sex or religion.
The NRA quickly grew into the governing organization for the shooting sports in the United States. Its policy of complete integration contrasted markedly with the racist policies of other sporting organizations, such as the U.S. Lawn Tennis Association, the Professional Golf Association, the New York Athletic Club, the Amateur Athletic Union and the League of American Wheelmen.
When Ambrose Burnside founded the National Rifle Association in order to promote rifle practice, he probably never foresaw that his little organization would eventually encompass all the shooting sports, and would grow into the most powerful lobby in the world." - www.nrapublications.org/first freedom/burnside.asp

 

[mindwip]

Hopefully the Dems will go to far and get them selfs thrown out in two year. It seem alot of poeple were not happy with the GOP so they said your not getting my vote. Not that they wanted the Dems in control. I think in 2 years they will be elected out, after they go to far in there actions(the Dems). They think that they are some big hereo right now and that they are god they will go to far on something and people will start to vote GOP again


And i heard that only 7% of the house and sen changed only 7% thats not a lot, and those races were very close very close.

If we can get more people open to guns and haveing them wanting less restictions that would help come next election.


I do think on the hole we are very lucky to have the NRA, they just cant do everything at once

 

[Silver Bullet]

JohnBT: well said.

 

[mbt2001]

I don't understand the original post is referring to 57% of people not supporting Gun Rights. I guess I missed something, because I have no idea what he is talking about.

anyway, if the MEDIA is reporting it, then it isn't true. Look at the LIES that they were aiding Dem congressman and the Brady's is propagating during AWB I and the attempt at AWB II.

If the media released this, it is because they are scarred and things are most likely the other way around. Most people I talk to today, think that guns are fine and shouldn't be banned, ESPECIALLY post Katrina.

 

[SoCalShooter]

My question to the originator woud be, why does the burden fall on the NRA? Are you indisposed enough that you cannot educate people?

Education starts at home, in your community, at work, on the street, in the grocery store, wherever you may find yourself, if you expect someone else to do it, it will probably not get done.

 

[Silver Bullet]

I don't understand the original post is referring to 57% of people not supporting Gun Rights. I guess I missed something, because I have no idea what he is talking about.

I agree; I didn't believe that statistic either.

I see a lot of polls where pro-gun sentiment is overwhelming, but I never see the news source that is doing the poll report those results.

When somebody throws out factoids like the 57%, my questions are, 1) who conducted the poll, 2) to whom was the poll directed, and 3) what was the exact wording of the poll.

Without knowing that, the factoid is meaningless, and probably just meant to influence the less discerning members of the public.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

In a way its just an education to the mass poeple of the usa to not get them shooting. But to dispell the idea guns are bad

I agree that it would be great to change more peoples' mindset, regardless of whether they personally go shooting or not.

However, especially on the person-to-person level, it's far easier to take someone shooting for two hours than it is to argue about gun politics with them for two years.

What would a snazzy website and a (very expensive) flyer campaign accomplish?

"Gee honey, I was really against assault weapons, but then I got this flyer in the mail with a big picture of an AK-47 on it, and a bunch of information about the Constitution, and it changed my mind."

I just don't see it happening.

However, you take someone shooting a .22, they realize that a gun isn't some evil device forged by demons.

From there, it's a pretty easy logical process for many people.

this .22 gun isn't bad --> even if it shot more bullets, it wouldn't be any worse --> even if it shot bigger bullets, it wouldn't be any worse --> (intervening time to mull it over) --> an AK-47 isn't so bad, so long as you don't do bad things with it


-MV

 

[Mr.V.]

even if it shot bigger bullets, it wouldn't be any worse

I dunno about that...I started on a .22 just a couple of years ago (I was an evil dirty anti before that). When the guy to the right of me let loose a 30-06, my pants looked like a hot-fudge sunday.

 

[mindwip]

The goal of the flyers would be to let people know guns are good in a general sense. It would not say AKs are good or glocks. It would be more like gun trueths, as in how many poeple they protect, the mom that protects her son, stoping rape, how not as many people are killed by guns as Brady wants you to think.

The messages are not ment to tell people what guns are good or bad, just that guns are needed and good, its still up to them to see if they should ban that bad Ak but let the .22 stay.

I would think just letting people know that guns are safer then they thought will do alot. And your right, it will be hard to change peoples views that they have held for years, I want to get the new generation before Brady does, and hopefully some antis that are still senseable

And no you dont need a company to do this but it makes it alot easyer. At the start i wont have one untill later. I am off to send pms to some of the members of THR to ask if they would help with the pics they make.

 

[DerringerUser]

To anyone saying "the NRA needs to educate the people".

I presume that you are:

a) Donating to the NRA
b) Contacting the NRA leadership to explain what you, a donating member (preferably a Life Member) would like them to do
c) Are you, yourself, educating young people in the shooting sports, and generally being a great ambassador for the shooting community and Constitutionalists in general.

If not, how is that any different from the old "it's society's fault" excuse?

-MV

Yes, yes, and no. Other than my son, its such a controversial topic down here in southern california that its taboo to even say the word "gun". Whenever anyone menciones it, everybody is all up in arms (no pun intended) and starts to get snappy. I would like to move, but there is just too good of weather down here. We should really start merchandising pro-gun shirts, maybe with Oleg's work plastered on it. I just wished most of american was exposed to the facts.

For 2008, if John Edwards would get the nomination I would vote for him. He's not totally pro-gun, but he's the most pro-gun decent dem I know of.

 

[scout26]

1. Last time I checked the NRA is made up of individual members. We're the ones the "Need to Do Something."
2. We're up against Goebbels in the media: "A lie repeated often enough becomes the truth."
3. Grassroots is our only realy hope. The media/politicans are going to continue hammering the "Guns are Bad, M'kay." line. We have to take non-shooters shooting, especially kids. The NSSF has a neat program where kids can get patches for either small bore rifle and/or trap shooting. http://www.nssf.org/JrUSA/ I've always sprung for the cost a stamp to get kids their patches. Now, they got it so that I can preorder a bunch. But I still think it's better that a couple of weeks after I've taken my kids' friends out to the range, they get a small reminder in the mail. I'm also working with my club to sponsor/setup SCTP program. Then I'll work with local schools to recruit (And I'm near Chicago, so I know it's a Sisphiean task.)
4. If it is to be, it's up to me.