The original pine tar finish

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DeanDallas

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In 2005 or 6 I made a post on Gun-Boards about using pine tar to repair & restore stripped finish stocks to their original finish.
The post was lost in their changeover to their new system. I have come across it recently on the Surplus rifle forum that some one saved it in the original form. I just want to put this to rest, as I have had some hard comments from posters that should know better.
If it is OK to re-shellac old Russian rifles, it should be fine to refresh old Finn rifles with a new coating.
I do not encourage stripping any stock to refinish it, I have learned it is better to use the original type of finish to refresh the wood only. And this is the only reason I am bringing this up.
The pictures I will post was used by the Auson pine tar dealer on the West Coast for years until PC forced the end.
Even a model 14 stock looks OK. Don't kid yourself M14 birch stock looks fine with pine tar.

Edit to say; The second coat over the old finish usually gives a marbled look to the Finn stock.
 

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More pictures of a Aussie L1A1 FAL parts & m 39 handguards
 

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I will try that next time along with shoe polish and leather dye. But get plenty of pictures I want to see it.:)
 
In the picture below 2 of the 28/30 stocks were sold to the member Caribou of "Life below Zero" 2 months back. They are great people.
I bet they get hard use up there, Chip said they had 2 28/30s without stocks.
 

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More pictures of my pickup ovenbed.
 

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Here is another forum I made a post on about my backdoor deck. Known as Texas Traveler, I have work on & collected old chain saws for decades.

http://www.arboristsite.com/community/threads/preservation-of-wood-decks.103554/

The cheapest source of pine tar I have found for small amounts is this sports medicine business on the web.
$9.54 for a 16 oz bottle.

http://www.ambercity.com/pine-tar-16-oz-bottle-160602-74676166025.html

You will find references to a Toms pine tar mix good for gun stocks.

The man did not have anything new at all. Pine tar Ski wax is better & is the real deal.
http://xcski.gearwest.com/product/s...2352/1838051?gclid=CKyzm5TPvb8CFTJn7AodMUUAgg
 
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http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=8165
The links I posted on this old post is mostly gone but a new search will bring them up.
There are a few things I would do different on preparing the Finn stocks, mainly leaving the stock fittings on like Butt plates & sling fittings. Because pine tar will swell the holes enough to have to re-drill the screw hole's.
Even Finn Arsenals did not remove the fittings. On Civil Guard rifles they used a lacquer on top of pine tar pitch , but on SA Army rifles it was just plain SA army oil which had pine tar pitch.

PT will close small hairline weather cracks at the end of stocks good enough they are not noticeable.
Refreshing old Finn stocks will create a marbled harden look that has desirable look among collectors. A collector may not admit it, but it will sell 2 to 1 beside a plain stock rifle.
To the budding stock refinishers please do not use Polyurethane on any stock.
 
Roofing tar would probably work.

A friend got much the same effect with roofing tar.

My Dad made wood stain for years using roofing tar and paint thinner,,,
When he started using lacquer instead of varnish,,,
He switched to lacquer thinner.

It's messy as all heck,,,
But it worked very well on pine and driftwood.

Aarond

.
 
If it was a wood pitch OK. But a petroleum base tar should not be recommended for wood by anyone.
 
Can you elaborate on the method of application?
Pretty much what has been posted, some have tried it mixed 50/50 with turpentine. I like it straight up on the stock with the suns heat.
some use a heat gun. If going over an old Finn stock with original finish just clean it with a thinner & apply. I would let it set for 6 to 8 hours, wipe down & let dry for a day. This is for warm weather now, not winter
 
I posted this on another gun forum years back.

To be honest about the love for a product that works for me is this & using pine tar for stain & refinishing other wood products military Gun stocks

I got to playing with a couple hundred Aussie LIA1 butt stocks & handguards a few years back.
I had bought out Tapcos inventory that came from Century Arms.

Sorting out the genuine blonde ones that sell good for Joe Poyer lookalikes for a really classy look for the L1A1 FAL. At 40.00 bucks a piece

Most of the coachwood stock sets sold off pretty fast, even the hundred or so British laminate walnut handguards went super fast. The Brit. handguards went for $40.00 bucks each set.

That left me with some dogs, believe me I tried every thing in the book to get the stocks looking right.
Every thing, clean them, stripped them, steam them & heated them.

Leather stain all colors, minwax stain, BLO, & even bleach.
I had all colors of the rainbow plus just a bunch of gray fence post.

Finally as a lark I took the stain-free best of the stocks & dumped them in a tray of pine tar.
I let them soak for 4 or 5 hours then wiped them off, the stocks had the look of new Aussie coachwood stocks.

The small hairline cracks at any either end of the wood were closed up & the overall med dark color was as even as could be. The former dents in the wood were hard to spot.
They were like arsenal new wood.

So in hindsight I got a completely new outlook on treating stocks before ever putting BLO on one.
Before you knock it, try it you just might like the idea.
 
There is a lot of things that need to be said about pine tar.

First it is a wood preservative, with that it will bring old wood back to life. A natural preservative with oils & rosins it will actually close small cracks in the ends of stocks.
Small dents will become less noticeable in wood, plus after drying I notice the finish is harder.

And now this
The first thing you notice after you start assembling the rifle back into the stock, it has a closer fit at all points.
Small screw holes need to be re-drilled because the wood has soaked up all it could. That dried up beat to hell stock is not that way anymore.

Edit to post a old post from 2006.
http://www.falfiles.com/forums/printthread.php?t=170523

I was banned from the FAL forum by a lawyer with whom I had disagreed with about what is right or wrong.
Typical business for me at my age, at the time there were 4 or 5 lawyers on board.
 
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Finn soldiers used pine tar as an aid to grip the rifle the year round. With heavy winter mittens as well in warm weather with bare hands it gives a firm grip on the stock much like a baseball player uses on a ball bat. Their lives depended upon on it, pine tar was a very important part of their lives.
Plus using wax pine tar mix on his winter wooden snow skis.

When the purest of the military collectors say to leave a Finn rifle alone no matter how they look, I say they are wrong. If in good condition Yes but not if dried out.
Even a young Finn one of my harsh critics finally said joking about a beat to hell rifle and I quote: It Escaped the Belt Sander & Bucket of Oil.

In the case of destroyed arms picked up on the battle field they are the only true relics.
 
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DeanDallas
I understand what you say about the Hard Core Purist. It seems they are always trying to tell people what they can and can't do with their weapons.
Those Collectors are the ones I put in with the (MHMTCC) McDonald Happy Meal Toy Collector Club.

Here is a link to the post I did on doing a Finnish Pine Tar Finish
http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=137&t=85350

What is the correct thing to do? The answer to this question has changed over the years. Also depending on where you lived would have had something to do with it in the pass. Now days we have the internet. You can post something today and everyone can see it.
Back in the 60s and 70s making milsurps look pretty was common. People paid to have guns refinished. But then you had the guys that just bought things and stuck them in the closet. Most often not to save the history, but just because they liked old guns.

Now days some will tell you that if you do more then wipe your gun off with a dry paper towel, you are destroying history.
Can you tell what was done to your guns in the pass? If you have a refurbed Mosin the only thing you can tell for sure is that it was cleaned, refinished and put away by Russians. Just about all the history prior to refurbishment were destroyed by Ivan.

I hate the Collectors that come down on others that don't do the same as they do. Ask yourself, Who made them the experts? Some call themselves Purist and go about telling others how they are right and others or wrong. But who taught the Purist?
Here is something you can still do. Talk to the ones that used the history that you collect. Find that old Vet and ask what he did from day to day to care for the weapons he was issued. Ask him what he used to clean his rifle stock with and what he put on it to protect it from the rain, mud and day to day use. You will be amazed at the answers you get.
I have heard the Purist say, that is what it says in the manual. Ask that old Vet about the military manuals and what he thought of them. You may get a good laugh.

I was told once that any military stock that I applied BLO to, I was destroying, because I was applying a new finish to it. But the same person would clean a cosmoline soaked stock, removing the last finish applied by the military, and say that it's ok. Was even told that applying Howard's Feed-N-Wax was approved by Collectors for military stocks. As far as I know, the military never used Howard's.

Over the past 24 years I have cleaned, refinished and restored more surplus stocks then I can count. The best advise I can give is. Do your best to use the same things on your surplus weapons that would have been used when they were still in serves.

Remember, as a Collector, you should be an open book. A new Collector needs to fill his pages with information and the seasoned Collector needs to teach and shear information from his. But if you close your book, you can not add to it or give from it.
I was told on another forum that I did not know what I was talking about when it came to stocks. I was belittled, and made fun of. I did not lash out, I asked questions and the only answers I got was I was wrong and they were right. Some people can not see past their Egos.
A member there sent me a PM wanting to know how I was able to keep a cool head with the Ego Clowns. I told him to wait and watch.
I then opened my book and laid the information out for all to see. The ones with the Egos faded away because their books had been closed and had very little in them. Others started asking questions and I answered the ones I knew.
There are many ways to remove oil from stocks and to refurbish them. Some work better then others. Some are used with a heavy hand and others are gentle. What you do most often depends on what you are working on.

I was once told that Old Vets were wrong and that they really could not remember things. But this was coming from someone that had never been there or done that, hell he didn't even have the T-shirt. I can still close my eyes and see my friends sitting on the grinder cleaning our M16A1s and listing to a silly song called Swinging for the first time.
 
GunnyUSMC
Thanks for the reply , the purist we speak of are usually are the first ones that start badmouthing you behind your back along with lying about their motives.
It is right about them shellacking old MNs with worn finishes but not right about refreshing Finn stocks with pine tar.
Hypocrites all.
In my life I have learned to pick my friends, that are not small minded & have no reasons for lying.
 
DeanDallas
I am a purist at heart when it comes to milsurps. That is, I like to keep them as is, and not try to make them pretty. But it is not my place to tell others what they can and can't do with their property. I do advise that one does his homework to be sure that they are not altering something that is rare.
Now I just love an old Warhorse, you know, that old rifle that would have a hell of a story if it could talk.
I have been repairing stocks for over 24 years and I do my best to blend the repaired area with the old finish.
That Finn M91 in that post that I did the pine tar finish on was stripped clean when I got it. My friend Dave bought the rifle from the guy that stripped the stock, got a hell of a deal on it.
Here is something that most don't know. The Finns coated rifles with pins tar like the Turks did their rifles with cosmoline. When the rifles were issued the pine tar had to be removed with a solvent. Then the stock would be waxed with a wax and pine tar mix.
I know Tom, the guy that makes Tom's 1/3 Mix. I was the one that got him to make his Finn mix. It's very close to what the Finns used and it is made in Texas.
 
I am a purist much more than you may realize. I have sold many rare pieces that have brought high prices all over the country without any complaints from anyone. Even to a director of the NRA that I met again Sunday.

Quite a gentlemen, he is retiring to Sarasota, FLA from Ohio later on when he gets his home remodeled. He laugh about pine tar and said as a Finn Collector I am well versed in pine tar. So I feel I am in good company.

But back to the Finn use of Pine tar in refurbishing the army used a SA army oil of which I cannot even pronounce much less spell. It contained wood pitch of which is the same as pine tar one is liquid the other is semi-solid.
Both will mix with turpentine, and the semi-solid pitch will dissolve in it.
So in the act of refinishing there is truth in the quote of. A sanding belt with a bucket of oil.
 
Indeeed, stored away safe the wife has a 28 and a 28/30in need of stocks...., the 28/30 with all the metal (cut down stock, but the guy saved teh hardwhere), the 28 is a magizined action if I remeber correct like. will be a good day to see her get 'em together and shoot em, Dean. The 28 is a project of collecting bits and picese for her, like a puzzel.
 
Thanks Caribou that explains a lot:) If the 28/30 nose piece is hard to find, the model 39 nose piece will work in a emergency. In case you do not want to remove the front sight to install.

You & your beautiful family take care. We hope to see much more of your true adventures.
 
Here are 4 L1A1 stocks I did with pure pine tar in 2006 8 years ago . Four old take off stocks brought back looking sharp.
There is nothing that will come close to pine tar for doing a natural stain & bring wood back to life like it will. The pictures
were taken last week.
 

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While doing some hard woods with pine tar I have had better luck using a wood conditioner on the wood to get an overall better even stain for PT. But as always it works best on unsealed wood. They call it Pre-stain wood conditioner by Minwax.
It has cancer causing agents so wear protection such as gloves & plenty of ventilation.
 
Here are 2 pictures I took of one stock I am trying a new method of getting an even color on hard wood stocks.
 

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