The "Permission" to Keep and Bear Arms

Status
Not open for further replies.

NIGHTWATCH

Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2003
Messages
870
Location
Ground Zero
I dont exactly agree with this, but we have fallen by way of comfort. :(





THE SECOND AMENDMENT IS ALREADY DEAD

THE PERMISSION TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS


By: David Browlow

Was the 2nd Amendment included in the Constitution to protect our right to hunt, our right to target shoot, or our right to defend ourselves from the local neighborhood hoodlums?

While those may be important benefits of the "right of the people to keep and bear arms," is that really why our founders declared it an unalienable right, and locked it in the Bill of Rights at the number two spot - right behind the freedoms of speech, assembly and religion?

The short answer is of course, no. The 2nd Amendment was intended to protect the states and the people from being forced to suffer through another "long train of abuses" like the ones that led to the war against Britain - a purpose for which, unfortunately, the 2nd Amendment it is already dead.

Sure, most of us can still hang onto our rifles, shotguns, and depending on where we live, our handguns – which gives the false impression that we have a 2nd Amendment that actually protects our right to keep and bear arms. But, if we are only allowed to keep the guns they tell us we can keep, and if we are only allowed to carry them the way they tell us we can carry them, then, that is not a right, that is not a guarantee - that is a favor.

It would be more accurate to call it, "The permission to keep and bear arms." (2nd Amendment, Rev. A)

What our founders learned from their victory in the War for Independence was that in order to drive out an occupying force, one must have both the means and the willingness to kill the occupiers in such large numbers that they lose the will to fight.



Fortunately for the Patriots, they fought on a somewhat level playing field with the British in terms of access to firepower. They both carried the same kind of muzzleloaders, they had a similar type, if not quantity, of cannons and artillery, they had similar armor (very little), they both used horses to transport men and material into battle, and they had the same means (or lack thereof) to communicate with their troops.

Based on that experience, they ensured (or attempted to ensure) our right to "keep and bear arms" for the expressed purpose of protecting the newly formed Republic from a federal government they feared would become every bit as oppressive as the one they just threw out. If they only knew the half of it!

The 2nd Amendment was to be the safety valve of last resort to deal with any future attacks on our freedoms that could not be resolved by peaceful means. Granted, today’s guns can put a lot more lead downrange than the guns our forefathers used. But, as far as being of any real use for non-peaceful conflict resolutions against the forces we have allowed our government to amass?

Assuming that we could actually muster up the courage to resist the occupation regime through the use of force - which is highly doubtful given the comfortable form of slavery we have grown to accept - we might as well be armed with bows and arrows!

Here’s how we became so hopelessly outgunned. The 2nd Amendment was intended to guarantee; "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."

Notice it doesn’t mention anything about guns. It guarantees the right to keep and bear "arms" as necessary to the security of a free "state." (Notice it doesn’t mention anything about the security of a free federal government either!)

Once we allowed our government to arbitrarily define the term "arms" as strictly limited to a few select types of rifles and pistols, we cleared the way for the regulation of gun style, gun size, gun caliber, gun rate of fire, barrel length, magazine capacity, as well as the explosive power of the shells, the type of projectile that can be launched from our "arms," and on and on. In other words, we gave up any chance of a putting up a real fight against our occupiers when we allowed the occupiers to make up the rules.

But that is only half the problem. While we have permission to "keep and bear" what is essentially a 21st Century version of a muzzle loader, our federal and local police forces have been arming themselves to the teeth with the most advanced weapons and technologies our money can buy.

Nearly every federal agency has formed it’s own paramilitary force, which is clearly outside the constitutional provisions of a national army and navy. This has resulted in close to 100,000 armed, increasingly belligerent federal agents lurking around the cities of this nation - with access to such unlimited resources and firepower they could challenge many of the world’s regular armies.

Then, largely as a result of the phony "war on drugs" and "war on terror," we have militarized our local police forces to the point where they are now armed with; helicopters, armored vehicles, SWAT teams, snipers, machine guns, grenades, body armor, infrared detectors, command and control systems, and electronic surveillance – all of which are made available as a force multiplier to the FBI/DEA/ATF/IRS whenever called upon.

The final nail in our coffin is that if anyone ever actually got serious about winning back our freedom, the feds would simply call in the U.S. military, the most formidable fighting machine ever created, to pound the troublemakers into small grains of powder. So to all the above formidable capabilities of our various police agencies, we could add fighter jets, AC-130 gun ships, attack helicopters, M1 tanks, artillery, rockets, smart bombs, every caliber of gun known to man, surveillance drones, special forces units, and who knows what else!

Many have been clinging to the false hope that as long as we still "have" the 2nd Amendment, there will always be the slight chance we could win a fight to regain our freedom.

But, while we were off raising families and having fun living the American dream - with our heads planted firmly in the sand – our occupiers have been busy maneuvering the chess pieces around the board with great cunning and skill. Take a look around folks, we’ve been surrounded – it’s a checkmate!

Sure, we might still have the ability to wage a little one-man revolution – for about five minutes! But for the purposes for which our founders intended it, which was to ensure that the several states would remain free from warmongering tyrants like the ones who have seized control of our country, sadly…

The 2nd Amendment is already dead.

article- http://www.etherzone.com/2005/brow071805.shtml
 
Yeah, it is like that with the other amendments too.

You have to ask permission to peacefully assembly. You have to ask not to be searched. You have to go to court and ask that your property not be seized. The list goes on, but I tell you, when I have to board a soldier in my home, when my 3rd amendment rights are taken away, that is when I will vote from the roof tops. ;)
 
When my 3rd amendment rights are taken away, that is when I will vote from the roof tops
I agree.....

And not to foolishly hoot for reasons of false comfort, I dont agree with the author that we have exactly lost.

The DC shooter comes to mind. If one thug with a scoped rifle could tie in knots the agencies of three states inculding the capitol. What about a hundred citizens reconciled to giving their life? A thousand? A million? There are 70 million folks with guns? It is not a situation the government wants and I think our military would splinter over the order to attack the homeland.

Vietnam showed us what a population of armed citizens with rifles can do to a modern military.
 
It's too pessimistic. Any revolt by the citizens will likely include sizable portions of the military coming to the side of the rebels, with their issued equipment. Also, there are many examples of forces with just small arms going against mechanized forces, and winning.

So while I agree things aren't the way they should be, the government still has cause to fear an armed uprising.
 
molon labe ! babe!

He who has not the heart for this fight may leave, I would not die in his company.
Tho in the main your facts are accurate it is not a true reading,
Why would you choose to believe that our Fathers Sons and
fellow Americans would be willing to open fire on our Families and Citizens?
Tho by recent History I would be willing to place more faith in the U.S Armed forces than any alphabet soup LEO .org
Should there be an actual uprising even they are Americans!
God Love US; when did Pogo's "We have met the enemy and he is us?" become a truth to live by?
Henry IV's (paraphrase) We only have one life to give our prince(Liberty) and he who loses it this year is quit for the next!
 
This is nuts. How is the 2A more restricted now than 50 years ago? 100 years ago?

We have more CCW provisions than at any time in our history, remember ccw was illegal in old Tombstone. The AWB sunset with hardly a whisper. Full autos are a couple forms and a check away. Guys in my county collect and shoot cannons. You can legally own and operate a tank or a jet fighter. This is a country where the 2A is dead?

The sky isnt falling, that's brass from one of Clint Smith's ariel gunnery classes. If you think we are living in an occupied regime, I suggest you talk to some people who've lived in an occupied regime.
 
Don't forget in most states you can "Vote Early"

"When my 3rd amendment rights are taken away, that is when I will vote from the roof tops"

Then you may not have to worry about that statement! :evil:
CT
 
This is nuts. How is the 2A more restricted now than 50 years ago? 100 years ago?
Perhaps less so than 50 years ago in some respects, but definitely more restricted than 100 years ago. Can you mail order an short barreled shot gun or a 20mm anti-tank rifle these days? How about the results of finding Great Grand Pappy's Thompson SMB in the wall?

Full autos are a couple forms and a check away.
For some reason, I am forced to recall the old saw about pigs and singing.
 
Last edited:
Ctex, that's early and often

8-0

I'm from STex where the Duke of Duval held court til the IRS drug him into court.

I'm still pissed, GGfather(deceased 1942) came to town to vote for Kerry and didn't even call me.(that's a joke son, that's a joke, hmmmm)
 
Rebar said:
Also, there are many examples of forces with just small arms going against mechanized forces, and winning.

Two words: Air Superiority

The "government" would always control the skies, and therefore, win.
 
This is nuts. How is the 2A more restricted now than 50 years ago? 100 years ago?

We have more CCW provisions than at any time in our history, remember ccw was illegal in old Tombstone.

Either way, in most cases, you still have to ask the government's permission prior to excercising your rights. And just because they did it wrong a hundred or fifty years ago doesn't mean we should too.
 
So....we're outgunned, and we shouldn't even bother fighting?.

That is pretty much what I'm gisting out of this story.

Well....maybe the guy who wrote this should tell all of the insurgents in Iraq that what they're doing, which appears to be so effective to the rest of the world, isn't really working.

This guy must be some sort of Democrat schlub who never heard of the words "Guerilla Warfare".

You can fool some of the people some of the time, you can fool the Democrats all of the time.
 
he DC shooter comes to mind. If one thug with a scoped rifle could tie in knots the agencies of three states inculding the capitol. What about a hundred citizens reconciled to giving their life? A thousand? A million? There are 70 million folks with guns? It is not a situation the government wants and I think our military would splinter over the order to attack the homeland.

then get out there, Nightwatch, and set an example for the rest of us!

You guys are a bunch of Keyboard Kommandos with way too much time on your hands. Armed revolt. Give me a break.
 
I think our military would splinter over the order to attack the homeland.
"The U.S. Government declares a ban on the possession, sale, transportation, and transfer of all non-sporting firearms. A thirty day amnesty period is permitted for these firearms to be turned over to the local authorities. At the end of this period, a number of citizen groups refuse to turn over their firearms. Consider the following statement: I would fire upon U.S. citizens who refuse or resist confiscation of firearms banned by the U.S. Government." - Question 46 of the "Combat Arms Survey," as administered to 300 Marines at Twenty-nine Palms Marine Base, May 10, 1994.

62% of those Marines said they would not fire if ordered, but that leaves 38% who said they would. It would be a simple matter to create a very large and effective select force from among that 38% to do the job. Additinally, with the growing anti-civilian attitude among Federal Law Enforcement Agencies (Particularly among the elite combat units, which nowadays make up a huge percentage of total agents), you'd probably get a much higher percentage of them who would say yes on that question. With concentrated force, from community to community, they'd be hard to stop. That said, it wouldn't take a lot of gun owners to pull an "Enemies Foreign and Domestic" response.
 
Sire, Sire, the HighRoaders are revolting!

Call Art's Grammaw, she'll make them all take baths. :evil:


That sounds like a book idea to me, Enemies F&D taken to the next level.

It'd be a "border legions vs. the Praetorians (domestic LEO and some military)" kind of scenario.

Wait, didn't someone already do a book about Idaho seceding or something? Nat'l Guard vs. Regular Army?
 
The "government" would always control the skies, and therefore, win.
The Soviets had air superiority in Afganistan. They lost.

And how many pilots, ordered to bomb American civilians, will obey that order? I'd say that the majority would not, and a not insignificant number would join the revolt.
 
Our military officers swore an oath to the Constitution, not to the people in power. I doubt the military would remain united against a popular uprising for long.
 
This is nuts. How is the 2A more restricted now than 50 years ago? 100 years ago?

I've seen examples of how, friend. I've seen a WWI veterans trove of war trophies after it was plowed up from where he buried it in 1934 after the NFA was passed by Congress. There were several Mauser water cooled belt fed machine guns in the lot. All legal when he acquired and brought them home openly from France. He had to bury them in 1934 as he didn't have the money to pay the tax. The tax was set at a level that was confiscatory for the majority of people who even had a job in the middle of the Great Depression.

FOPA, 1986. I've got an Uzi that cost me about $995 including cost of the gun, sales tax, conversion, and payment of the $200 tax stamp to the BATF. I see equivalent guns being advertised for $5000 today as a result of FOPA. That's not erosion of the 2nd Amendment?

Apparently, you and I can look at the same events in our history and draw opposite conclusions.
 
Asking the gov't for permission does not make something a right, it makes it a granted priviledge THAT CAN BE EASILY TAKEN AWAY.

100 years ago one could purchase firearms and other weapons freely, without complicated restriction(s) that DO NOT defeat the criminal element. It only makes it more difficult for someone to legally purchase weapons...criminals of course all walk into gunshops and fill out 4473s and are thereafter prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law, when caught doing so [read dripping with sarcasm].

Most of the GCA of 1934 was directed at putting out-of-work revenuers back into business (Gov't jobs that was meant to help his Majesty FDR to rebound the country from the disaster created in 1929). Now then, in "modern times" the limitations have only grown for law abiding citizens and the assault continues (check the latest try at making .50 cal illegal to be possesed by individuals).

That does not mean that the "sky is falling" but it sure makes some of us uneasy to know the rug can be pulled out at any time. Granting a person permission to own a firearm is not the same as having freedom to own firearms. Every time I buy a firearm I am granted the right to transfer, but only after jumping through the appropriate hoops. Criminals, meanwhile, simply continue to purchase weapons freely, without limitation or regard for the law...sure is better than the old days.

Debating the "roof top" option has proven fruitless here at THR, so why go there...
 
FOPA, 1986. I've got an Uzi that cost me about $995 including cost of the gun, sales tax, conversion, and payment of the $200 tax stamp to the BATF. I see equivalent guns being advertised for $5000 today as a result of FOPA. That's not erosion of the 2nd Amendment?

Exactly.

Taxes, fees, permits, registration and regulation are the government's ways of discouraging activities they cannot ban outright, but would like to.
 
The DC shooter comes to mind. If one thug with a scoped rifle could tie in knots the agencies of three states inculding the capitol. What about a hundred citizens reconciled to giving their life? A thousand? A million? There are 70 million folks with guns? It is not a situation the government wants and I think our military would splinter over the order to attack the homeland.


then get out there, Nightwatch, and set an example for the rest of us!

After you Rabbi...........faith before fury. :D
 
No, it isnt an erosion of the 2A, it is an example of how demand drives price and a free market in action.

We may have lost conveniences, but we certainly have not lost rights. The law was broken by burying machine guns, not in their possession. The owner for whatever reason chose to break the law, thus the consequences.

The vast majority of rights that everyone yodels about have only been codified in the last 75 years: Gideon, Mapp, Escobedo, Miranda, Brown, & Roe are all relatively recent. These have all contributed to making the 2A stronger than ever.
 
The thing is centac, it is NOT a free market. The pool of NFA weapons to be owned by private individuals in finite, and no more can be made or imported legally. The high price of these weapons is due to the curtailment of the supply, a restriction imposed by the .gov.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top