The Port Arthur Massacre in Australia

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C

Cortez

member
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Location
Riverview Queensland Australia
It is approaching that time of year again when the anti-gun organisations aided and abetted by a frenzied media, insititutes their annual pogrom against legitimate gun owners.

It is difficult for legitimate gun organisations to have their point of view fairly represented at any time of the year in this country but at this particular time, it becomes virtually impossible.

There have been many calls for a public inquiry into this massacre and the government won't have a bar of it. In fact they have clamped a 30 year embargo on the release of any information in relation to the massacre. Odd for a government which has nothing to hide, wouldn't you say?

I wish there were some American investigative journalists who would attempt to tackle an investigation into the massacre. Not a single Australian journalist will touch the story.

I have always believed that there was a lot more to the massacre than the public have been told but it would require a journalist with the tenacity of a ferret to really root out the information.

One thing that has always haunted me about this massacre was the fact that of the 35 people who were killed and the 20 odd who were wounded, NOT ONE of them had the means of protectiing themselves and thereby perhaps cutting down on the number of people killed and hurt.

It is even more damning that 2 weeks following the massacre, the Council of Australian Police Ministers in a formal meeting recommended to the Federal Government that the ownership of firearms for the purpose of self defence not be permitted. This was eventually ratified.

Quite an amazing recommendation considering what had just happened at Port Arthur.

I don't believe a citizen of the USA would be happy if such a law were introduced into the USA following a massacre there.
 
I am an American but I have studied Port Aruthur just a little myself. I found out a couple of very fishy things. There were gun control advocates there who said if more restrictive laws are not passed, there WILL be a massacre in Tasmania.

Also, of the shots fired in the cafe, most of them resulted in deaths. That was over 20 people, all shotand killed. By a man with a .223 caliber rifle. In America, as well as the shooting in Canada with a Ruger Mini-14 the kill ratio was not nearly as high.

In fact, the point of the .223 is to wound as opposed to kill. And then we have Martin Bryant. Mr. Bryant was judged mentally ill, no one has spoken to Mr. Bryant about this since.

And the 30 year moratorium (after destroying the place this happened).

Then, we have the fact that all of the Australian gun control orgs seemed to be very well funded by the UN and "child" orgs and NGOs.

I believe that Australia was a test case for an international gun control movement whose ultimate goal is to disarm everyone except for governmental bodies (this of course making resistance to tyranny impossible).

Right now, Australian gun owners need to be a lot hotter than they are about all this (that or move en masse to America :) ) Your government sold you out. Stand up now and fight politically to get your rights back before the government makes it illegal to speak out against these abuses.

Yes, I say that seriously. Governments which disarm citizens are like husbands that beat their wives. It won't end, there is no just once. It will happen until the wife (or the citizenry) steps up. Otherwise the only recourse will be armed conflict. (I hope Aussie gun owners have the fire to do that)
 
Some Australians will come around to your way of thinking if you talk to them about it, but that's the ones who are receptive. Sadly there are no pro gun politicos likely to get into office, and the opposition would be worse and stand for nothing. Howard will stay until he retires. The only way this country will harden up is if the *grammaw wouldn't like what i said* judges get replaced with people with brains and guts. Of course, getting antis to contradict themselves is fun. Like this.
me: a university in the US raffled off an AK clone.
her: that's horrible!!!!
me: you know you'd want one.
her: yes maybe to shoot john howard!!

An anti gunner wanting to destroy an anti gunner, such a beautiful thing. :cool:
 
RE:Rebecca Peters

I would love to have some proof of that because I have always felt that the Coalition for Gun COntrol AUstralia of which she was the head, was in some way responsible.

There is something that stinks about the whole business.
 
n fact, the point of the .223 is to wound as opposed to kill.
Click to expand...

This statement is false and has been debunked time and time again. While the rest of your statement may be correct, when you put forth such obviously incorrect info as this it forces the question as to the validity of the rest of your information.
 
Do any of you see anyone in politics throwing Aussie shooters a lifeline?

::cuss: :banghead: G'day all of you Australian shooters, I have been doing some research on the internet and on this forum, on the content of your firearm-laws and I have to say,you have the worst Prime-minister in living memory John bloody Howard running your country. He is even worse than John Major and Tony Blair and even Paddy Ashdown,-the former Liberal-Democrat leader.

This man calls himself a Tory and acts as though he is a member of the Liberals.How the hell can he call himself a Conservative, when he pays lip-service to conservative values-including shooting???????? What a Wanker!!!!!!!!!!!
"I hate GUNS" WELL I THINK AUSSIE SHOOTERS HATE YOU,YOU DICK.:cuss: :rolleyes: :


In the UK we have had it tough, in terms of unwarranted attacks on our sport and the banning of full-bore self-loading centrefire rifles and later most kinds of pistols-but at least our pump and semi-auto rimfire rifles and shotties have remained safe to this day, THANK GOD, BUT NO OFFENCE AS YOUR RESTRICTIONS ALSO ANGER ME COMPLETELY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

On the other hand, you guys have certainly had it tough with the Port Arthur Massacre and all of the fallout and bollocks that accompanied it,but at least you still have proper pistols to shoot and can compete in most disciplines, that we in the UK cannot compete in, these days.

Do any of you think that your government or any government in the forseeable future, will drop the ban on military-appearance rifles?If they do then you can recieve military-style straight-pull rifles from us in the UK-if you want, so you can have the use of an AR-15, or Ruger M14 again, but in a bolt-action format.

It probably seems unlikely that this will happen because of that pompus prat Howard,preaching his anti-gun bull????, but one can hope and pray.

Do you or have any of you travelled to New-Zealand or even abroad to countries like the USA or even the UK, to shoot pump and semi-auto shotguns again and take part in sporting clays and practical disciplines?

Can any of you tell me if there are further planned restrictions and possibly bans on pistols and other legally-permitted firearms in Australia. If you look at our laws and what we have to do in order to get a license, it is far easier to acquire one here in the UK than in Australia, because we don't have to pass any exams to get a license. Training courses and exams in the UK are optional, but are prefered by some police forces, in terms of individual competantcy.

:what: :eek: The one thing that is totally ridiculous, is having to wait 30 goddam months for a collectors permit, to acquire a black-powder revolver, because in the UK these weapons can be acquired in a matter of a few-months, depending on your police force.

To think that my country was bad, in terms of anti-gun hostility, Iv'e only got to look at the wonderful land of OZ, to see that there are others suffering injustice, because of a dopey-bastard, called Martin Bryant-wait he's too thick to pull-off a massacre like that in Port Arthur. Isn't he border-line retarded or was he set up?Hmmmmm John Creepy Howard, you've got a lot to answer for.

Also I will check out this Australian anti-gun website and cause total and utter chaos and maximum outrage, to these pathetic liberal green party pissants.:neener: :evil: :evil: :D
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Last edited by sterling180 : Today at 11:05 PM.
 
One thing that has always haunted me about this massacre was the fact that of the 35 people who were killed and the 20 odd who were wounded, NOT ONE of them had the means of protectiing themselves and thereby perhaps cutting down on the number of people killed and hurt.
Click to expand...
Here's the problem.

The anti-gun argument is that if one of those people had been armed, there would be 70 dead and 40 wounded (since now there are two psychos with guns). People who are unfamiliar with firearms frequently don't recognize them as a form of protection, rather they view them exclusively as an implement of murder and terror.

They think if they block the legal market the number of guns in the hands of psychos will be reduced by lowering straw purchases. It denies such facts that tons of illegal narcotics are able to enter the country unscathed and end up in the hands of psychos...why are guns exempt?

But the bottom line is that if a majority of people don't own a gun, and they don't know how to operate a gun, and they haven't even held a gun...that majority will frequently be persuaded to relinquish their gun rights simply because someone says "They're dangerous and since you don't have one why should anyone else?"

The real reason for an assault weapon is to fight your government and its supporters. There are few other reasons. You can argue until you're blue in the face that in the last 100 years alone, more than 60 million people were murdered by their own government...but they'll probably look you in the face and smugly reply "that's not going to happen here, psycho..."
 
Mr V

If what you say is the case then we may as well all behave as willing and compliant victims, because there is no hope for any of us.

As a retired professional soldier, I am not going to be anyone's victim and if I can't have a gun to defend myself then I'll find something equally lethal, although perhaps not quite as handy. The trouble in this country is, that if you harm a felon in the commission of a crime, regarless of how serious it is, the chances are he/she will get off and you, the victim, will go to jail.

I don't know how it happened but somewhere aloing the way, the Mad Hatter got his hands on the legislative cake in this country and we are now paying the consequences.
 
If what you say is the case then we may as well all behave as willing and compliant victims, because there is no hope for any of us.
Click to expand...

Cortez--

I don't see how what I said leads to that conclusion. My point is that when a society loses the gun culture...losing gun rights isn't far behind. It becomes easy to make the argument that "you don't have a gun, right? So you're better off if the other people don't have guns either."

If you do lose your gun rights you certainly aren't completely helpless. I never said that. However, you will be far more easily victimized if they're shooting at you with a Steyr-Aug and you're returning fire with a trusty yew bow and cloth-yard-shaft
 
Mr V

You are absolutely correct. The thought of trying to string a longbow and draw a shaft in the middle of the night has me in stitiches.:eek: :)

God forbid anything like this should ever come to pass.

You will have to forgive me - I get a bit depressed with the whole firearms situation in Australia at the present time.
 
"However, you will be far more easily victimized if they're shooting at you with a Steyr-Aug and you're returning fire with a trusty yew bow and cloth-yard-shaft."

Are you implying that the Australian army will be sent against its own people? Or do you just think the good old steyr is cool? Sorry, that line seemed a little ambiguous to me.
 
The Australian Army used against the people?

Why wouldn't it be, if little Johnny or some other potentate ordered it?

The nation was founded by Royal Marines guarding the first 'colonists' -

a significant number of whom were in chains.:D
 
That is possible. I suppose the best I can say is that I will not fire, and I will try to get as many others to do the same. But being a lowly reservist the chances of me making a choice like that are pretty dang low.
I'm pretty sure firing at civilians would not qualify as a lawful command.
 
Historical precedent is troubling....

"I'm pretty sure firing at civilians would not qualify as a lawful command."
**********************************************************

I completely agree with your reluctance to fire on civilians,Sphiphel Rike.

Back in 1854, British troops were used to brutally suppress a revolt on Victoria's goldfields - a revolt brought on by government heavy-handedness in the issue and inspection of miners licences.

For the benefit of North American members who may not be familiar with the event, here's a brief account:

http://users.netconnect.com.au/~ianmac/eureka.html

A government force consisting of detachments of British Regiments, the 12th and 40th, plus mounted and foot police of the Victoria Police, attacked an entrenchment of aggrieved gold miners at BALLARAT at daybreak on 3 December 1854. The resulting action, the attack on the Eureka Stockade, is today among Australia's greatest legends.

For two days earlier the gold-miners in revolt seemed to hold the future of Victoria in their grasp. A well-armed group of 'Californians' and Canadians were among parties of 'foreign anarchists' set upon achieving Parliamentary democracy -- and nothing less. But the Irish seemed to predominate, and English Chartists, Scots, Swedes, at least two Italians (one, Raffaello Carboni, fresh from revolutionary Rome), a Jamaican, and an African-American said to be from Baltimore, Maryland, were involved in the uprising. The Ballarat Reform League gave some semblance of organisation to these strands of indignation about gold licensing fees, a desire for political reform, and the general disorder at Ballarat.

To complicate matters, a further force of 800 troops. including a Naval Brigade from HMS Fantome and HMS Electra, with howitzers and shrapnel ammunition, was on its way from Melbourne.Gold Commissioner Robert Rede (who later officiated as Sheriff during the 1880 hanging of bushranger Ned Kelly) decided to strike quickly without waiting for the large reinforcement from Melbourne. Captain J. W. Thomas (40th Regt) and a scout led the combined government force to the Stockade in the early hours of 3 December. The Stockade was all but deserted, few miners believing it would be attacked on the Sabbath. The Stockade was thus taken with minimal casualties, but these increased when mounted police attacked bystanders.

Of some 120 men captured at the Stockade, only 13 were committed for trial. The State Treason Trials commenced in February 1855. Successive Melbourne juries refused to convict any of the defendents. Democratic reforms ensued, with peace being eventually restored on Victoria's goldfields.

Captain Henry Ross, the Canadian
leader at the Eureka Stockade. Known
as Charles Ross in Australian documents,
such as his death certificate, Ross was
shot 10 or 15 minutes after being arrested.
Photograph by S. J. Dixon, of the Electric
Light Photo Galleries, Toronto, Canada
Photo provided by a proud relative in Canada.
**********************************************************

The precedent seems to suggest that when 'government' begins to worry about civil disorder - however justified the disorder may be - 'government' tends to use force at hand to retain control.

During 1968, as a lowly U.S. Army PFC, I was trained in 'riot control' and ordered on standby for civil unrest then in progress in first Washington, D.C. and later Chicago.

I have no doubt that should the situation have continued to spiral out of control in those cities, plenty of federal troops would have been on the scene in short order - with live ammo issued.:uhoh:
 
The precedent seems to suggest that when 'government' begins to worry about civil disorder - however justified the disorder may be - 'government' tends to use force at hand to retain control.

During 1968, as a lowly U.S. Army PFC, I was trained in 'riot control' and ordered on standby for civil unrest then in progress in first Washington, D.C. and later Chicago.

I have no doubt that should the situation have continued to spiral out of control in those cities, plenty of federal troops would have been on the scene in short order - with live ammo issued
Click to expand...

Two words:

"Kent State"
 
Hi Cortez welcome to THR,

Joe Vialls has done some investigation

http://home.overflow.net.au/~nedwood/portarthur.html

He has some good points but I take his stuff with a grain of salt.;)

The latest attack came in the form of Australia Post refusing to carry any firearm related parts, not even scopes! Fortunately they largely backed down on this however they will still not take international post of major firearm parts. Forcing us to use exorbitantly priced courriers:cuss:

Duck and Quail hunting was recently "Banned" in QLD. The reason:

Low populations?
Over Hunting?
Irresponsible hunters?

If you picked one of the above, you were wrong. The real reason was that Peter Beattie QLD Premier decided that enough was enough and that it was "Uncivilized" to shoot poor little birds with nasty guns. Civilized people should only eat meat that they buy in the supermarket.:cuss: :cuss:

OK enough ranting.

Stirling; I like the idea of Bolt action copies of Auto Rifles. Technically speaking they are legal to own. However it is virtually impossible to get approval for importation. :cool: It is possible that we could build them ourselves. But there would be little market for them IMHO most aussie shooters are into either sport shooting or hunting.

I'm sick and tired of hearing from fellow shooters that gun ownership is a privilege and that we shouldn't do anything that might cause greater restrictions. Bunch of sheep.:fire:

Pump rifles are OK, I own one myself. Pump/auto shotguns, auto rimfires are Class C which is possible to obtain if you are an instructor or for pest management in rural areas.

Cortez I live in QLD maybe we could meet up for a shoot or something.

Josh
 
Yep, same phenomenon Hawkmoon....

"Two words:

"Kent State""
**********************************************************

But those Ohio Guardsmen were still under the control of Ohio's Gov. Rhodes -who was responding to a request by Kent's Mayor for assistance.

I was a member of the regular Army and we were being trained to deal with increasing civil disorder around the U.S.. Events of that era were straining whatever remained of the federal system of government envisioned by the founders of the U.S.:uhoh:




Kagar:
********************************************************** "The latest attack came in the form of Australia Post refusing to carry any firearm related parts, not even scopes! Fortunately they largely backed down on this however they will still not take international post of major firearm parts. Forcing us to use exorbitantly priced courriers."
**********************************************************


Wasn't it interesting that there had been no prior consultation by Australia Post with the Minister for Communications?

I may be getting overly cynical, but methinks little Johnny is quite happy to bypass the system when he wants his way - especially if it helps to rid the civilian population of those 'e-e-e-vil' guns.:scrutiny:


**********************************************************
"Peter Beattie QLD Premier decided that enough was enough and that it was "Uncivilized" to shoot poor little birds with nasty guns."
**********************************************************


So much for "sport hunting" as our justification to own firearms.....:fire:




**********************************************************
"I'm sick and tired of hearing from fellow shooters that gun ownership is a privilege and that we shouldn't do anything that might cause greater restrictions. Bunch of sheep."
**********************************************************


You know how bad it is when SSAA presidents caution their members to never refer to their firearms as "weapons".:rolleyes:

Unfortunately, Australian shooters are relatively few in number and so far have been easy to marginalise politically. As you note, some of us encourage the process by seeking to accomodate government's "sensible firearms laws".
:banghead:
 
An explaination of what had happend-and NO OFFENCE TO ANYONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The post that I supposedly sent a couple of days ago,-I didn't send because I was out and about with one of my friends in London, at the time it was posted.My girlfiend had had some of her friends over and this included some guys that I knew from school who turned up with her friends-and these guys, I dont think like me at all, because they think that I am a weird gun nut and that I am mental, that I have tourette-syndrome.

My drawers were raided and my rough-posts were taken and one of them was the one that was sent a couple of days ago-was modified, specifically offend people and was posted so that I would look like a complete fool in front of everybody and would get kicked-off by a moderator, like Mr Roberts.

My password and username were also taken from my drawer, in my bedroom.

The post that was taken and modified to impersonate my rantings, was actually a post destined for another forum that tolerates moderate language-not for this forum.

So I apologise for any persons who were offended because of the actions of these idiots who thought it was funny to impersonate myself and to trash my name on an internet forum, by posting offensive posts. I did not join up to get shunned and rejected by other members.

I had words with these blokes and I demanded an apology be made on behalf of those who might have been offended but they laughed and said:"No and what are you going to do about it?" and started to push me around, so I hit one of them and I wrestled with another one and stuck his head down my toilet and flushed it twice, whilst hitting his back.

I certainly do not approve of using the word Wanker on this forum, even though it sums up John Howard and Rebecca Peters and their misguided beliefs.

Now some might think that what I did was extreme, but this was also for other obscene insults made against me in the past.I sent the guy packing stinking of toilet water.

They won't come online anymore, because if they do and I hear about it, they will have to stay in hospital for a few-weeks.That will teach those scumbags, not to mess with me.

I am telling the truth so if you don't believed me, well thats your decision, to make.

The previous post was going to be toned down in some areas, before I submitted it, but to add wanker to it, seems too harsh for this forum.Those morons were planning to insult Americans and insult G36-UK, by calling him Scottish names on this forum and to use the F word frequently,as well.

I found a list of names to be insulted.
 
The eureka stockade scenario would be highly unlikely in today's climate. They were english troops, today's troops are obviously a little different. We all got told that if an unlawful command was given we did not have to follow it, but that we'd better be damn sure it wasn't lawful. My sergeant at basic even told us some of the ways he'd managed to get himself out of being charged. :cool:
 
Could I have Some Information please?

:) What is the maximum barrel- length of the replica Winchester 1887 lever-action shotguns, made by Norinco and that Australian company?Do Norinco make interchangable barrells like remington, Mossberg, Ithaca and a few others do? because I am really interested in getting a lever-action 12 guage shottie,imported via one of the UKs main distributors.

When I talk about barrel length, I mean that there is a minimum of "24 on repeating shotguns, here in the UK and the pictures of the Winchester that I have seen, look a tad bit on the shortside.Could any of you guys supply me with some relevent information and also some similar info,on the Bentley pump-action Shotgun?
 
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