The proof that Saddam worked with bin Laden

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ahadams

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai...27.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/04/27/ixnewstop.html

The proof that Saddam worked with bin Laden
By Inigo Gilmore
(Filed: 27/04/2003)


Iraqi intelligence documents discovered in Baghdad by The Telegraph have provided the first evidence of a direct link between Osama bin Laden's al-Qa'eda terrorist network and Saddam Hussein's regime.

Papers found yesterday in the bombed headquarters of the Mukhabarat, Iraq's intelligence service, reveal that an al-Qa'eda envoy was invited clandestinely to Baghdad in March 1998.

The documents show that the purpose of the meeting was to establish a relationship between Baghdad and al-Qa'eda based on their mutual hatred of America and Saudi Arabia. The meeting apparently went so well that it was extended by a week and ended with arrangements being discussed for bin Laden to visit Baghdad.

The papers will be seized on by Washington as the first proof of what the United States has long alleged - that, despite denials by both sides, Saddam's regime had a close relationship with al-Qa'eda.

The Telegraph found the file on bin Laden inside a folder lying in the rubble of one of the rooms of the destroyed intelligence HQ. There are three pages, stapled together; two are on paper headed with the insignia and lettering of the Mukhabarat.

They show correspondence between Mukhabarat agencies over preparations for the visit of al-Qa'eda's envoy, who travelled to Iraq from Sudan, where bin Laden had been based until 1996. They disclose what Baghdad hopes to achieve from the meeting, which took place less than five months before bin Laden was placed at the top of America's most wanted list following the bombing of two US embassies in east Africa.

Perhaps aware of the sensitivities of the subject matter, Iraqi agents at some point clumsily attempted to mask out all references to bin Laden, using white correcting fluid. The dried fluid was removed to reveal the clearly legible name three times in the documents.

One paper is marked "Top Secret and Urgent". It is signed "MDA", a codename believed to be the director of one of the intelligence sections within the Mukhabarat, and dated February 19, 1998. It refers to the planned trip from Sudan by bin Laden's unnamed envoy and refers to the arrangements for his visit.

A letter with this document says the envoy is a trusted confidant of bin Laden. It adds: "According to the above, we suggest permission to call the Khartoum station [Iraq's intelligence office in Sudan] to facilitate the travel arrangements for the above-mentioned person to Iraq. And that our body carry all the travel and hotel costs inside Iraq to gain the knowledge of the message from bin Laden and to convey to his envoy an oral message from us to bin Laden."

The letter refers to al-Qa'eda's leader as an opponent of the Saudi Arabian regime and says that the message to convey to him through the envoy "would relate to the future of our relationship with him, bin Laden, and to achieve a direct meeting with him."

According to handwritten notes at the bottom of the page, the letter was passed on through another director in the Mukhabarat and on to the deputy director general of the intelligence service.

It recommends that "the deputy director general bring the envoy to Iraq because we may find in this envoy a way to maintain contacts with bin Laden". The deputy director general has signed the document. All of the signatories use codenames.

The other documents then confirm that the envoy travelled from Khartoum to Baghdad in March 1998, staying at al-Mansour Melia, a first-class hotel. It mentions that his visit was extended by a week. In the notes in a margin, a name "Mohammed F. Mohammed Ahmed" is mentioned, but it is not clear whether this is the the envoy or an agent.

Intriguingly, the Iraqis talk about sending back an oral message to bin Laden, perhaps aware of the risk of a written message being intercepted. However, the documents do not mention if any meeting took place between bin Laden and Iraqi officials.

The file contradicts the claims of Baghdad, bin Laden and many critics of the coalition that there was no link between the Iraqi regime and al-Qa'eda. One Western intelligence official contacted last night described the file as "sensational", adding: "Baghdad clearly sought out the meeting. The regime would have wanted it to happen in the capital as it's only there they would feel safe from surveillance by Western intelligence."

Over the past three weeks, The Telegraph has discovered various other intelligence files in the wrecked Mukhabarat building, including documents revealing how Russia passed on to Iraq details of private conversations between Tony Blair and Silvio Berlusconi, the Italian prime minister, and how Germany held clandestine meetings with the regime.

A Downing Street spokesman said last night: "Since Saddam's fall a series of documents have come to light which will have to be fully assessed by the proper authorities over a period of time. We will certainly want to study these documents as part of that process to see if they shed new light on the relationship between Saddam's regime and al-Qa'eda.
 
"Show me the link", I heard everyone and their brother cry out; "The War Is Wrong", "It's BUSH'S War, not America's War", "Warmonger"...

I had all of these things said to me, repeatedly, people were telling me "I fell for Bush's Lies; Hook, line and sinker".

I almost doubted myself once Kellog, Brown and Root's name was thrown into the picture to get a "Rebuild Contract" even before the fighting was really beginning.

Whew.

Or should I still be a doubting baba louie (sorry Thomas) and expect to now hear that the document in question was planted by Sec. Rumsfield's staff late last week?

No real big surprise really... was it?

Makes one wonder if the really evil, sinister chemical/bio things walked out the back door being carried by remnants of A.Q., while we were kicking in the front door. All the vaunted Iraqi Army did was stall for some time and not much of that, (as it were).

Next few weeks should be interesting during the "discovery" period.

Thank you aha for posting this.

Adios
 
Doesn't Rupert Murdoch own the UK Telegraph? Oh, brother! This report is laughable! Don
 
Even if these documents are real and were really found (doubt it) Doesn't this just prove that we should be spending our time wiping out Al Queda? It's not as if (again if these documents are real) Iraq was their sole source of finance.

It's been over a year and a half since Bush stood at Ground Zero and stated that whoever was responsible for this would be found (Bin Laden?). So far, he's failed.

Jits
 
Remember the papers requesting "yellow cake" from Nigeria?

And don't forget the "high grade aluminum tubes" for enrichment of uranium!

Both claims patently FALSE (dare I say LIES?)!

Don
 
It means that Saddam had access to a secret, deniable "delivery system" for any nasty crap he ever got ahold of - including nukes, which he's been pursuing for decades.

Bush did good.
 
I thought they had "bullet proof" evidenece BEFORE the war started.



Bush has been teeter totttering on a cliff for almost 2yrs with his foreign policy. I can't believe the Bush administration has lasted this long.
 
Quite laughable, Jim! What "nasty crap" do you think Saddam was going to deliver? What method was he going to employ to deliver?

How close was Saddam to NUKES and delivery systems they already have in North Korea?

BUT.. the North Koreans don't have oil and they never tried to wack "dubbya's daddy"!

Where are all 'em Al Qaeda bastages? Ain't they the ones who spanked us on 09-11? WHY CAN'T WE GET THEM?

Don
 
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Remember the papers requesting "yellow cake" from Nigeria?

And don't forget the "high grade aluminum tubes" for enrichment of uranium!

Both claims patently FALSE (dare I say LIES?)!

Don

1. Nigeria - I have no clue. Please elaborate.

2. Provide evidence to disprove the multiple reports and pictures I saw of the seized tubes.

Even *IF* you are correct about the tubes, Iraq has a nuclear facility. (Sold to them by the french.)
 
Regarding North Korea:

Many (generally anti-war people) say, "what about North Korea?"

Why can you people not grasp these two crucial points?:

1. War with NK means war with China. All 1.6 Billion of them.

2. NK has nukes. We have nukes. (Probably more than them.) If they use one on us, what do you think we're going to do to them? Kim is many things, but blatantly ignorant and stupid probably isn't one of them.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/madeupnews

The proof that Saddam worked with Hitler
By Inigo Gilmore
(Filed: 27/04/2003)


Iraqi intelligence documents discovered in Baghdad by The Telegraph have provided the first evidence of a direct link between Adolf Hitlers' Nazi Germany and Saddam Hussein's regime.

Papers found yesterday in the bombed headquarters of the Mukhabarat, Iraq's intelligence service, reveal that a Nazi operative, believed to be William Canaris, was invited clandestinely to Baghdad in March 1938.

The documents show that the purpose of the meeting was to establish a relationship between Baghdad and Nazi Germany based on their mutual hatred of America and Israel. The meeting apparently went so well that it was extended by a week and ended with arrangements being discussed for Goering himself to visit Baghdad.

The papers will be seized on by Washington as the first proof of what the United States has long alleged - that, despite denials by both sides, Saddam's regime had a close relationship with Nazi Germany.

The Telegraph found the file on the Canaris meeting inside a folder lying in the rubble of one of the rooms of the destroyed intelligence HQ. There are three pages, stapled together; two are on paper headed with the insignia and lettering of the Mukhabarat.

(copyright MI6 Document Fabrication Branch)
 
Iraqi intelligence documents discovered in Baghdad by The Telegraph have provided the first evidence of a direct link between Adolf Hitlers' Nazi Germany and Saddam Hussein's regime.

That shows the stupidity of this entire topic. Does anyone think that if Bush and Co. were really concerned about absolute evidence, some would not be "found" in Iraq? I'm sure that between them, the CIA/Military Intelligence/FBI could generate any documentation they desired, with Saddam's fingerprints on the paper, sales receipts from France/Germany/Russia and even photographs of Saddam, Osama bin Laden and Jacques Chirac hanging out with Susan Sarandon on Saddam's yacht. After all, as some would have you believe, they managed to kill JFK/MLK/RFK and not get caught for over 40 years, didn't they?

Bush did what needed to be done.

(edited: gotta work on that grammar and lousy spelling. Maybe when I grow up.)
 
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Agricola,

good to hear from the Ministry of Silly Walks.

The record of the Left on Iraq is such that we can be confident that any evidence of Saddam's perfidy will be recieved as proof of Bush's perfidy. Any evidence of Bush's perfidy will be taken as Gospel. Any evidence that the Left was wrong will be brushed over, and we'll be told to "move on". Any error on Bush's part will damn him and all his works forever. Such is life.
 
Apparently, according to the Left, it is now more credible to believe that George Bush and Tony Blair and a few others are engaging in a tinfoil-hat, Bilderberg Trilateral Illuminati-style conspiracy than it is to believe that Saddam Hussein and Osama Bin Laden were engaged in a conspiracy.

I say this without irony or hyperbole: that is sad. It's pitiful.


I had my doubts too, but come on. Let's not take leave of our senses.
 
Don't use the word "proof."

Those who will not believe are not inclined to believe anything regardless of the source.

Those who will believe are inclined to believe anything regardless of the source.

Those who opposed the war will immediately discount any evidence as planted.

Those who support the war will say WMD is just over the next hill.

Evidence of the inferiority of our culture. What we need is a mullah to tell us what to think.
 
For me, the odds of Saddam Hussein not cooperating with radical Islamists are zero, zilch, nada.

I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to believe there can be a link here. I agree ... it will come down to what people want to believe, period.

Regards from TX
 
Saddam played banker/broker/cutout for AQT from Saudi Arabia for a long time. No big deal, the Brits, the Euros and the CIA and DIA has known this for a long time. Now we have public confirmation of it.

I just wish they would publish the connection between AQT and Syria. God's Monkey House needs a good scrubbin'.
 
1. Nigeria - I have no clue. Please elaborate.

2. Provide evidence to disprove the multiple reports and pictures I saw of the seized tubes.

Even *IF* you are correct about the tubes, Iraq has a nuclear facility. (Sold to them by the french.)

Drjones, you might want to go back and review the "evidence" that Sec. of State Powell presented in his speech to the UN last February.

There were claims that Iraq was trying to buy yellowcake uranium from Nigeria. They had the documents to proove it! UNFORTUNATELY the documents were so poorly forged that they didn't even get the names of the agencies supposedly selling the yellowcake correct! These documents were furnished to the US by the INC. :rolleyes:

The aluminum tubes (that you saw with your own two eyes) looked surprisingly like the tubes they would use to manufacture 81mm rockets for the BM-21. This is what they were intended to be. This is a violation by Iraq, but they certainly were not intended to be used for uranium enrichment. :rolleyes:

And when did the French supply the Iraqis with that nuke facility? I assume you're talking about the one at Tuwaitha. Was that facility up and running after we bombed the snot out of it in 1991? If so, we should send a crew in there and secure the evidence! Why aren't we doing that? :rolleyes:

And remember the "poison factory" in Kurdish controlled northern Iraq run by Ansar al-Islami? We got control of that and guess what! NO RICIN! :rolleyes:

And the white powdery substance that they found and thought might be anthrax? Turned out to be ammonium nitrate! :rolleyes:

And those "mobile chemical/bio labs" they found burried? They contained equipment for the manufacture of conventional high explosives. :rolleyes:

And remember the chemical plant where they captured the "Iraqi general"? No evidence of chemical weapons being made there either! :rolleyes:

I could go on....... but I'm getting tired of typing! :cool:

Don
 
And when did the French supply the Iraqis with that nuke facility? I assume you're talking about the one at Tuwaitha. Was that facility up and running after we bombed the snot out of it in 1991? If so, we should send a crew in there and secure the evidence! Why aren't we doing that?
Done. Multiple preliminary tests on material there show it to be weapons-grade plutonium. Must have been planted by the CIA though. :rolleyes:

And remember the "poison factory" in Kurdish controlled northern Iraq run by Ansar al-Islami? We got control of that and guess what! NO RICIN!
Documentation please. :rolleyes:

And those "mobile chemical/bio labs" they found burried? They contained equipment for the manufacture of conventional high explosives.
Documentation please. :rolleyes:

And remember the chemical plant where they captured the "Iraqi general"? No evidence of chemical weapons being made there either!
Documentation please.

People like yourself that just say whatever they want with zero documentation to substantiate it, get really tiresome. I am throwing down the gauntlet here. You want to pretend that all these findings have been retracted, then you’re gonna have to prove it. Show us what you got.


I could go on....... but I'm getting tired of typing!
No need to go on, just go.
 
Done. Multiple preliminary tests on material there show it to be weapons-grade plutonium. Must have been planted by the CIA though.

Uh, ahenry........ you say weapons-grade PLUTONIUM?!!! :D

Multiple preliminary tests confirm that?!!!! :D

I'm afraid you are confused! Documentation? :D

TIA! Don
 
And today our forces tested barrels full of some substance--that tested positive as nerve and blister agents. To be fair, they tested it three times and one of the tests was inconclusive--only the other two were positive.

Now, was it planted, or were the tests faked? Inquiring minds want to know.
 
Now, was it planted, or were the tests faked? Inquiring minds want to know.

I think the issue is that we were told by the administration that:
President Bush, in his State of the Union address, described a vast Iraqi weapons program and talked about several mobile labs, 30,000 munitions, 500 tons of chemical weapons, 25,000 liters of anthrax and 38,000 liters of botulinum toxin. These weapons were supposedly deployed in the war and controlled by field commands that we have long since overrun — so where are they?
(plagiarized from The New York Times)

So, we found 150 gallons of nasty stuff? Cool, we knew some had to be lying around there somewhere (though I'm still no fan of the on-site tests they do -- I'd like to see more precision). The question is whether the claims made by Bush were correct, or whether they were even made in good faith. I've got my doubts (but it's not worth getting in to that again).

As for proof that Saddam "worked with bin Ladin," I've got doubts about that too. If the report is correct, then it shows that Saddam Hussein (or someone under his command) made contact with someone from Al Quaida 5 years ago.

Doesn't portray him in a good light, but still no smoking gun. Certainly not enough to go to war over.
 
Be careful before jumping to conclusions, Don G. They said the same thing (cyclosarin/mustard) back on the 7th of April and later had to quietly back down. If they are wrong, you will hear nothing more about it. If they're right, the administration will beat the dead horse until it can be beat no more!

I'm no expert on Iraq's WMDs, but I do know a thing or two about various WMDs. Cyclosarin is usually stored in binary components which are mixed just before employment. Cyclosarin, when mixed, degrades fairly rapidly.

Oh, and ahenry, Iraq was trying to obtain weapons grade U-235........ not Pu-239. So I would find it very surprising indeed, if they found weapons grade Pu-239 like you stated! :D

Don Q
 
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