The Purpose of the Second Amendment

Status
Not open for further replies.

InkEd

Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2009
Messages
2,575
Location
Parts Unknown
I keep hearing on the anti-gun propaganda about how they are not going to hinder people's right to hunt and all this other garbage. Last time I checked, the Second Amendment does not mention anything about hunting.

The Second Amendment exists to insure the citizens if the United States away to protect themselves against ANYONE (BOTH foreign AND domestic) that wishes to oppress them, regulate their other Constitutional Rights or THREATENS to do any of those things. The Second Amendment exists to uphold the sanctity of the other Amendments. Just my two cents.

What are your opinions on this issue?
 
My feelings on the Second Amendment are a bit different, perhaps a bit controversial. I believe people put too much emphasis on it. I believe people put to much stock in it. I believe that it exists for one purpose and one purpose only; to limit Congress' ability to pass legislation infringing on a creator imbued right. A right that exists independently from the gift of man. It cannot be granted, suspended, revoked,limited, or removed by any man or group of man. Only God may remove that right, as long as I draw breath, I retain that right. Only through my inaction or approval can my right be removed or modified. Revocation of The Second Amendment would not remove my right.
 
What IS the definition of an "inalienable right"? That lack of understanding seems to be the problem with the president, and the people who are not understanding the Constitution, its intent, and the 2nd Amendment.
 
The constitution was signed by multiple men, each with his own thoughts and beliefs. However, based on writings of prominent signers there is no question that their original intent was defense against tyranny, national defense and self defense. However, aside from the last reason listed i personally don't believe the other two are realistic today nor is it constructive to constantly claim otherwise. The disparity between civilian weapons and government owned has grown infinitely since the days of muskets. In addition, Jefferson and others did not favor a standing army in times of peace. That is obviously not practical today.

The general perception of those who run around saying their guns are there to defeat the government "when the time comes" is not positive and does far more to move the general public against gun rights rather than in favor of them. The worst is the small but loud group of people living in fantasy land who are today calling on people to "get ready" for the coming revolution. The irony is that the use of force by a small minority to overthrow democratically elected representatives is by definition tyranny.

I'm not claiming that it impossible for tyranny to reign in america but only that us and our AR15's aren't going defeat a modern, technologically advance military. And before anybody says it, the situation in Afghanistan is absolutely not evidence to the cntrary. Making it too costly to continue an occupation thousands of miles away for years on end is not the same thing as defeating a military at home.

Regardless of intent though, the second amendment is law and not going anywhere. The reasoning behind the third amendment isn't really applicable today but it is still law.
 
The constitution was signed by multiple men, each with his own thoughts and beliefs. However, based on writings of prominent signers there is no question that their original intent was defense against tyranny, national defense and self defense. However, aside from the last reason listed i personally don't believe the other two are realistic today nor is it constructive to constantly claim otherwise. The disparity between civilian weapons and government owned has grown infinitely since the days of muskets. In addition, Jefferson and others did not favor a standing army in times of peace. That is obviously not practical today.

Disparity aside, gun owners outnumber the military about 100 to 1.
Getting rid of a standing army is very easy to do - all we have to do as a nation is stop playing the world's policeman, trade and deal with all on an equal basis - there are a lot of countries who do that and we should lead by example
 
I'm not claiming that it impossible for tyranny to reign in america but only that us and our AR15's aren't going defeat a modern, technologically advance military.

Defeat, maybe not. But it will stop them and that is enough. The cost to our military attacking the armed citizenry is too great. What makes you think it is a silly ideas that our arms are a defense against our mitary our police forces being used against us? When we are armed, many things are off the table such as the government rounding up all the Jewish citizens here. That will not happen to an armed populace. It is a deterrent and it can be effective.
 
(Mods ... if this belongs in Legal ... please feel free to move)

I think this was possibly raised before, but doesn't the opinion in US v Miller 1939 actually help us in terms of having the AR-15/AK platforms (as well as many others) protected precisely because of their "military/militia" utility?

Wasn't the problem with Miller et al that they had no voice (one dead, the other not represented/didn't appear) and with no testimony that such weapons (short barreled shotgun) did have military utility? Therefore the Court could not render an opinion as to whether or not a short barreled shotgun had any military utility?

While modern military arms are select fire, the fact that the civilian counterpart is only semi-auto does not, in my opinion, render it as "not having military/militia utility". Weren't the M-14s issued to the USMC either all or for the most part, issued as semi-auto only, as part of their doctrine of controlled, aimed fire? That makes the civilian M1A easily its equal.

Comments please
 
there is no question that their original intent was defense against tyranny, national defense and self defense. However, aside from the last reason listed i personally don't believe the other two are realistic today nor is it constructive to constantly claim otherwise. The disparity between civilian weapons and government owned has grown infinitely since the days of muskets.

The general perception of those who run around saying their guns are there to defeat the government "when the time comes" is not positive and does far more to move the general public against gun rights rather than in favor of them. The worst is the small but loud group of people living in fantasy land who are today calling on people to "get ready" for the coming revolution. The irony is that the use of force by a small minority to overthrow democratically elected representatives is by definition tyranny.

I'm not claiming that it impossible for tyranny to reign in america but only that us and our AR15's aren't going defeat a modern, technologically advance military. And before anybody says it, the situation in Afghanistan is absolutely not evidence to the cntrary. Making it too costly to continue an occupation thousands of miles away for years on end is not the same thing as defeating a military at home.

Regardless of intent though, the second amendment is law and not going anywhere. The reasoning behind the third amendment isn't really applicable today but it is still law.

Actually, the threat of armed rebellion, or large scale insurrection, does tend to put limits upon Federal or State action. No one wants to start a civil war, and the threat of one will cause popularly elected government officials to think twice. It may still happen, but they will think twice about it.

Chances are very good, that if armed resistance against tyranny is supported by a large portion of the populace, the military will either be split with some backing the freedom fighters or will elect to sit out the fight, as happened in the War of Northern Aggression.

We don't need to defeat a NAZI style occupation force, we only need to convince our children, brothers, sisters, and friends in the military, that they are backing a tyranny. Or at least, force the military to acknowledge that they are indeed backing a tyrannical regime.

How many Army or Air Force officers do you know that would be willing to use nuclear weapons against their own fellow citizens?

Your attitude that any such attempt is doomed to failure, is not supported by history, either ancient or recent.

By the way, if you read the reasoning behind, and the history of the 3rd Amendment, you could understand how it might happen again. It wasn't just about forcing troops to live in the homes of private citizens, but forcing the communities to pay for the cost of stationing such troops among them.
 
From way back:
PENNSYLVANIA GAZETTE

(PHILADELPHIA)

(Tench Coxe, writing in support of the proposed

Constitution, under the pseudonym

"a Pennsylvanian")

The power of the sword, say the minority of Pennsylvania, is in the hands of Congress. My friends and countrymen, it is not so, for THE POWERS OF THE SWORD ARE IN THE HANDS OF

THE YEOMANRY OF AMERICA FROM SIXTEEN TO SIXTY. The militia of these free commonwealths, entitled and accustomed to their arms, when compared to any possible army must be tremendous and irresistible. Who are these militia? [A]re they not ourselves. Is it feared, then, that we shall turn our arms each against his own bosom. Congress have no power to disarm the militia. Their swords, and every other terrible implement of the soldier, are the birthright of an American. . . . [T]he unlimited power of the sword is not in the hands of either the federal or state governments, but, where I trust in God it will ever remain, in the hands of the people.

February 20,1788
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top