Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The reloading of massive-size cartridges...

Discussion in 'Handloading and Reloading' started by Matt304, Sep 23, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Matt304

    Matt304 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Utica, IL
    This may sound a little odd, and don't jump to conclusions as I'm really just curious but...how would one go about the complete reloading process of a round like the 14.5mm russian?

    For instance would the die/press set need be completely custom?

    What about primers this large?
     
  2. BEARMAN

    BEARMAN Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2003
    Messages:
    395
    Location:
    CANADA
    Just guessing but I think it would be like reloading .50 BMG . One of the large RCBS or LEE CLASSIC presses, custom dies , and probably a hard time finding the proper size primers. If the primers are an odd hard to get size maybe the primer hole in each case could be altered to the .50 BMG primer size. I don't know the problems you would encounter but I am sure it could be done. People reload for things they can't get cases for, so each case is hand made, and once you have made the first few , you would figure out a system to mass produce more .
     
  3. DaveInFloweryBranchGA

    DaveInFloweryBranchGA Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2005
    Messages:
    1,539
    Location:
    NE Georgia
    Certainly sounds interesting to think about.

    Matt,


    1. First, find a source for brass and primer components. If this can't be done, no use going any further. Having custom made is a possibility, but could get awful expensive quick. But it can be done. If you have brass, I'd suspect the brass would have enough material to machine out and make an adapter for .50BMG primers for sure. Not sure I'd try to reload steel cartridges in this size caliber. Not fun to resize, I'm guessing.

    2. Find a press big enough to resize the case. In this case, the Lee Classic Cast and RCBS Rock Chucker are likely big enough to do the job and have the larger size threaded hole to take larger dies. If these two presses are too small, you can use a other types of presses and dies similar to stuff used by bench rest shooters, but on a larger scale size wise.

    3. Have custom dies made. I'm sure Lee Precision could handle this job at a pretty reasonable price. If not, there are other folks that do this kind of work.

    4. Identify an appropriate powder. I'm guessing off the cuff, but it's likely .50BMG surplus powder should work nicely. That's certainly where I would start.

    6. Locate a bullet. This could be tough. You could go custom or you could look into making your own. Again, an expensive option to go custom. That said, there are plenty of folk out there that could have a custom mold for lead bullets made and then add their own jacket. Not sure if you need the jacket, but at that velocity, I'd suspect so.

    All in all, unless I had the money and a Rooskie machine gun I badly wanted to shoot, it's not hardly worth it due to costs involved overall. But if I did and could afford it....that's another story.
     
  4. Matt304

    Matt304 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Utica, IL
    Thank you very much for the useful input guys.

    Truthfully, I've never reloaded a single cartridge before.

    I mean I assume there is a few things to learn when attempting a project like this obviously, but also assume after a couple of runs it is as easy as can be. I'm sure perfecting the ammo accuracy-wise is the actual challenge here.

    This idea is really impractical for just about everyone, I mean who the hell wants a rifle shooting $12+/shot 14.5mm ammo? I'm sure some people out there would love to try but for the most part it's impractical.

    Anyways, why do I ask then? Well again, I'm always curious about how you could go about doing a lot of things for custom projects, and this just so happens to be one of them. Personally, I'm one of the people who would someday like to own a massive cartridge shooter like this just for the heck of it, only it would be need necked to .50cal of coarse. Will it ever happen? Probably not. (Just trying to stay honest in this discussion here.)

    So where might a source exist for 14.5mm cases today? I found one source (Bigskysurplus), and fired brass cases are $8 each. Primed for $12 each. Expensive yes, but are these cases all going to be of outdated production? Are there any small manufacturing facilities which could turn out brass cases such as these anymore, if only a small run of quantity was needed (100-200)? Or are you looking at big setup charges for a quantity this small, of a more or less custom case?

    Is there a reason for 50cal surplus powder in this scenario? Mainly price wise I assume?
     
  5. mrkubota

    mrkubota Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Eastern AZ, SoCal
    Most any press that can accept the 1.5" die sets would work.
    RCBS Ammomaster, Hornady .50bmg, Hollywood Sr., RockCrusher, Corbin.

    The RockChucker won't because it's not tall enough.

    Dies are available from CH4D.com or can be custom made.

    There's 14.5mm wildcat from SSK based on the .50bmg case that would be easier to load for.
    http://www.sskindustries.com/14_5.htm

    Even the 20mm Vulcan would be easier to get components for. You just need to put a bushing into the primer pocket to fit std .50bmg primers in place of their electric primers.

    Basic reloading for .50bmg:
    http://www.hevanet.com/temple/50reloading.html

    A few surplus suppliers:
    http://www.hi-techammo.com/
    http://www.patsreloading.com/
    http://www.gibrass.com/

    [​IMG]
     
  6. brickeyee

    brickeyee Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2005
    Messages:
    3,135
    The dies needed to draw the brass will cost a lot of $$$.
    They get ammortized over the cost of thousands to millions of shells.
    It also takes a lot of expermineting to get the draw process going perfectly.
     
  7. Matt304

    Matt304 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Utica, IL
    Had an idea this might be the case.
     
  8. Matt304

    Matt304 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Utica, IL
    Thanks for that info Mrkubota.

    The SSK 14.5mm is actually a 50bmg necked up. This idea would consist of the large 14.5mm russian case necked down.

    The case is 114mm in height, next I'd like to aquire some loading/ballistic info on the actual round.

    When a new round is developed, I assume a computer simulation is used to predict pressures generated? Or is this mostly done through a test bed device? Curious as to some numbers which may be produced from the round, for instance how a machinist would design a proper action/barrel for the cartridge.
     
  9. mrkubota

    mrkubota Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Eastern AZ, SoCal
    The .50bmg is already considered to be slightly 'overbore' as is. Using the larger russian case will only worsen that issue and likely lead to faster throat erosion in the barrel.

    Gale McMillan had a .50/20mm wildcat that measured barrel life in the hundreds of rounds rather than the 3k or so that a normal .50 has....
     
  10. HankB

    HankB Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2003
    Messages:
    5,213
    Location:
    Central Texas
    What about the legal issues?

    IIRC, there's a Federal law prohibiting cartridges over .50 ". . . unless suitable for sporting purposes . . . " or some such. So .577, .600, .700 Nitro Expresses are OK, even some custom 8-bore stuff . . . but I doubt that the BATmen would let stand a claim that the 14.5mm Russian round was "sporting" . . .

    How about the few people that have Lahtis or Solothurn 20mm guns? Those were sold over the counter & by mail up until 1968, are there any ammo reloading issues there, based on caliber? :confused:
     
  11. Matt304

    Matt304 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Utica, IL
    Wow, now that's what I'm taking about. The vulcan case is monstrous, even more so than the 14.5mm if I recall.

    Why is it exactly these larger bores wear the barrel quicker? It would seem everything is scaling up (surface area, bullet size) thus you would almost think the friction would be left nearly the same per area. Possibly due to a longer bullet I suppose? (since the is the only factor which actually increases friction rate with scale...)

    I never realized that barrel life was that short, but the factor I would account for also in here would be price per shot. I don't think you could really afford to put more than a few rounds through every so often...

    Did McMillan's gun simply use a ton of weight to suppress recoil, or some sort of dampening action? One interesting design to note in this scenario of massive energy rounds is the Mechem NTW-20.
     
  12. Matt304

    Matt304 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Utica, IL
    We're talking about .50cal cartridges here (necked down to there at least).
     
  13. mrkubota

    mrkubota Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Eastern AZ, SoCal
  14. wdlsguy

    wdlsguy Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2004
    Messages:
    2,880
    Location:
    TX
  15. Matt304

    Matt304 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Utica, IL
    Holy mackeral.

    1600gr @ 3300fps. 39lb rifle. Something tells me that 5th wheel trailer mount is a must.

    Looking at the two, the 14.5mm looks very similar in case size to the 20mm, maybe slightly less base diameter, with a slightly longer neck.
     
  16. Matt304

    Matt304 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2006
    Messages:
    624
    Location:
    Utica, IL
    I took a photo compairing the 14.5mm and 50cal and a photo compairing the 50cal and 20mm and scaled them fairly close to give a good comparison.

    Curious, is the band above the neck on the 20mm located on the projectile itself?

    [​IMG]
     
  17. mrkubota

    mrkubota Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Eastern AZ, SoCal
    Yes, that's the "driving band" and is the part of the projo that actually engages the barrels rifling.
    As an aside... that's the part of the projo that gets turned down to the proper diameter to reuse the surplus Vulcan projos in older 20mm rifles like the Solothurn and Lahti.

    http://www.angelfire.com/mo/brashco/

    The 20mm Vulcan was the final result after initial tests with a .60 caliber (14.5mm) didn't work out. The case geometry for both versions is basically the same. (some history: http://tri.army.mil/LC/CS/csa/aagatlin.htm )

    Serbu's got a 20mm in the works as well:
    http://www.serbu.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=339
     
  18. pvtschultz

    pvtschultz Member

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2006
    Messages:
    10
    That's just wrong! What kind of person would put their shoulder up to something like that? Could you imagine hitting a prairie dog with it!!!
     
  19. highlander 5

    highlander 5 Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2006
    Messages:
    2,285
    Location:
    lynn,ma
    reloading 14.5 russian

    as far as presses redding makes THE BOSS which looks more than big enough,or if you've gold mine Old West Scrounger makes or used to make a giant o press that looked like a rock chucker on steroids made to load 20 mm AA has enough leverage to crush beer cans full steel cans mind you not aluminum but I never saw a price so this might be a case of "If you have to ask you can't afford it"
     
  20. mrkubota

    mrkubota Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Eastern AZ, SoCal
  21. mrkubota

    mrkubota Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Eastern AZ, SoCal
    Russian PTRS 14.5mm shooter:

    [​IMG]
     
  22. Sunray

    Sunray Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2003
    Messages:
    10,496
    Location:
    London, Ont.
    "...We're talking about .50cal cartridges..." Not if you're thinking 14.5mm. That's a Russian roughly .60 calibre heavy MG round. You'd be looking at having custom dies made, using custom bullets and then you'd have to find brass in sufficient quantities to make it worthwhile. Or have the brass turned on a lathe. Other than that, reloading for it would be the same as reloading anything else. Just a lot bigger.
    There's nothing wrong with being curious. We'd have a lot less stuff to play with if nobody was curious.
     
  23. mrkubota

    mrkubota Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2004
    Messages:
    102
    Location:
    Eastern AZ, SoCal
    He's talking about wildcatting the russian 14.5 case down to .50 caliber....
    My picture posts were in response to the post as to who would shoulder such a large caliber rifle.....
     
  24. flutedchamber

    flutedchamber Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2006
    Messages:
    51
    Location:
    NJ the state of total despair
    The only two presses that I know of that are large and strong enough are the Rock Crusher, which is a Rock Chucker on steroids, and a press made by Corbin for bullet swaging. Both presses are costly, especially the one from Corbin. Dies, as stated can be bought from Ch. Good luck.
     
  25. missing_something

    missing_something Member

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2006
    Messages:
    5
    14.5 Russian

    Well... just looked at the post and its very interesting..... I reload and shoot 14.5 Russian from a PTRD and PTRS AT Rifle.

    Here are the steps...

    Ammomaster press = not strong enough for resizing, I use for priming and bullet seating.

    Corbin press = neck and Full Length sizing of cases.

    2" reloading dies obtained from CH4D dies. Top notch dies.

    Cases.... Well you have to look around... Brass cases preferred (ease of use) Surplus military brass dealers (Big Sky Surplus just to name one). The case needs to be deprimed and then the primer pocket reamed out to take a sleeve. The sleeve is then fitted and glued in. A flash hole also has to be drilled. The case is then ready for .50 BMG primers.

    Bullets... well have a machinist make then from solid Brass, or a custom bullet maker, or buy from SSK or locate a dealer for .585" projo's. There are a few out there. 1000 grain is the original bullet weight.

    Powder... As stated previously .50 BMG powder is suitable..... loads aren't readily available and I can't discuss in open forum as it is liability issue.

    Then voila.. large calibre fun...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page