The Second Amendment was Ratified to Preserve Slavery - Rebuttal

[Ieyasu]

I noticed the thread concerning the article ( http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery ) referencing the law journal article by Carl Bogus was locked. However, since that article is getting lots of eyeballs around the web, I thought I'd post a rebuttal...

Here's the original law journal article (1998): http://www.saf.org/lawreviews/bogus2.htm


This is a rebuttal: http://lawreview.byu.edu/archives/1998/4/kop.pdf (scroll down to p. 1522)

There is so much that is misleading in that law journal article. One example, after reading III. THE MYTH OF AN INSURRECTIONIST RIGHT from the Bogus article, compare it to the first section here: http://www.guncite.com/gc2ndcont.html

Incidentally here are some the the author's previous affiliations:


VIOLENCE POLICY CENTER, Washington, DC

National Advisory Panel, 1993-Present.

HANDGUN CONTROL, INC., Washington, DC

Board of Gov., 1992-93, Board of Directors, 1987-89.

THE CENTER TO PREVENT HANDGUN VIOLENCE, Washington, DC

Board of Directors, 1989-92.

http://www.law.gwu.edu/SiteCollectionDocuments/CV/Carl_Bogus.pdf


Funny how this article: http://truth-out.org/news/item/13890-the-second-amendment-was-ratified-to-preserve-slavery fails to mention those affiliations. If some law journal article was penned by a former NRA board member, I think it'd be a different story.

 

[chas58]

Thanks for the post and good research.

 

[Ieyasu]

You're welcome! And welcome to the Highroad. I see it's your first post!

 

[TNBilly]

Thank u And it falls under the heading of If They - the Progressives - Don't agree with History - Rewrite It!

 

[Ieyasu]

If They - the Progressives - Don't agree with History - Rewrite It!

Good point. There is unintended irony in the URL that contains the article -- "truth-out.org."

 

[Frank Ettin]

Excellent post. Thank you.

 

[goon]

The right to keep and bear arms existed in several state constitutions, and not all of them were southern states with a danger of slave revolts.

The idea of repairing or replacing a non-functional or tyrannical government was outlined by John Locke in the late seventeenth century.

In either case, SCOTUS agrees that this is an individual constitutionally protected right. Doesn't matter if it came from a box of cereal - it's a right and that's what matters.

 

[Wylie1]

Don't agree with History - Rewrite It!

Yep everything from stories told to children now that were tragities in the day, just about every religion is included as well as our constitutional liberties, not to be confused with constitutional rights mind you.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Carl T. Bogus, "The Hidden History of the Second Amendment", 31 U CA at Davis Law Review 309, 1998.

Carl Bogus writes: "When Michael A. Bellesiles reviewed more than a thousand probate records from frontier areas of northern New England and western Pennsylvania for the years 1765 to 1790, he found that although the records were so detailed that they listed items as small as broken cups, only fourteen percent of the household inventories included firearms and fifty-three percent of those guns were listed as not working."

Bellesiles' myths about the nature and content of Colonial probate records, and descriptions of firearms when they are listed, have been thoroughly debunked by several probate scholars. Bogus invokes the name Bellesiles 10 times. Mostly cited to: Michael A. Bellesiles, The Origins of Gun Culture in the United States, 1760-1865, 83 J. AM. HISTORY 425 (1996); the precursor of Bellesiles' Arming America the first Bancroft Prize winner book to have its award revoked by Columbia University.

Carl T. Bogus chaired a symposium on the Second Amendment sponsored by the Joyce Foundation championing the collective right (ie, militia-only) view and stated he would not accept any article accepting (or even just explaining) the individual rights model. The symposium produced a conference issue of Chicago-Kent Law Review, Vol. 76, No.1. and a book Carl T. Bogus, The Second Amendment in Law and History: Historians and Constitutional Scholars on the Right to Bear Arms, The New Press, 2001. Bellesiles' contribution was entitled "The Second Amendment in Action".

The particpants in the symposium, conference issue and Bogus' book were recruited by Prof. David Yassky to sign an amicus curiae brief backing the militia-only intepretation in the case of United States v. Timothy Joe Emerson (U.S. Court of Appeals, 5th Circuit, case no. 99-10331). In Emerson, the Fifth Circuit court conducted a study of the intent of the 2nd Amendment and ruled that the 2nd Amendment was intended to be an individual right (United States v. Emerson, 270 F.3d 203 (5th Cir. 2001)). Bogus and Bellesiles were not persuasive in court.

ADDED:
Here's a comment on exPres. Clinton's warning to Democrats to not trivialize the "gun culture" made by a poster "L.A. Lawyer" using the Bogus argument at http://www.politico.com/story/2013/...-dont-trivialize-gun-culture-86443_Page2.html

... "Gun Culture", like birtherism and creationism, needs a reckoning, President Clinton. The Second Amendment ... was a concession mostly to white slave-owners and white aspiring slave-owners and the sort of people George Washington had to put down during the Whisky Rebellion ... There is simply no need for the Second Amendment, as a "check on government," because the US Government has at its disposal nuclear weapons, killer drones, extensive surveillance. ... at the end of the day, President Clinton had to send in quasi-military force to assert federal power over the Branch Dividian compound in Texas. Let's not be afraid to assert federal power. The "Gun Culture" has little future, as we look to move into space, the Moon, Mars, and beyond.

To see similar talking points, enter into a search engine:
"Repeal the Second Amendment" site:democraticunderground.com

 

[Billy Shears]

Thank u And it falls under the heading of If They - the Progressives - Don't agree with History - Rewrite It!

Indeed. And talk about irony: someone promulgating a history so revisionist as to be practically fiction wears the surname Bogus. An aptly named "scholar" to say the least.

 

[VVelox]

Hah!

Article was pulled. It now leads to a 404 page, although it does not say it.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

To snarky me, Carl T. Bogus has the dubious distinction of making Gilbert Ernest McGill (aka GEErnst, Publius II, G. Eyclesheimer Ernst, editor of Firearms Policy Journal and head of the one man Potowmack Institute) sound half-way coherent by comparison. At least McGill honestly believes what he says and says what he means, I'll give Gilbert credit for that.

 

[Ieyasu]

Article was pulled. It now leads to a 404 page, although it does not say it

The URL works for me, this morning.

 

[Ieyasu]

At least McGill honestly believes what he says and says what he means, I'll give Gilbert credit for that.

He probably does, but only because he functions in transmit mode exclusively.