The Security-Six.S&W 19/66: Did Progress Kill Them?

[Cosmoline]

SteveC is right. I've seen Bill Ruger quoted as saying the company lost money on every Six built. That may have been an exaggeration, but the point is an important one and speaks to Ruger's relative position in the 1970's. They were the third guys after Colt and S&W. They had to price lower than the better-known DA revolver makers in order to have any chance. And they were viewed as something of a lesser critter by the gun writers.

Even today not many gun writers see the virtues of the Sixes. They've only really grown in status since the 90's. Folks started finding them on the bargain shelves for $150 or so and realized how good a shooter they were. They've simply held up very well over the years, better in some cases than the Smiths and Colts that were their competition. And when you start shooting them, you really see how nice they are.

The GP/SP line in the 1980's represents a streamlining of production methods, and a shift away from the LEO market. The SP's are a CCW piece, the GP's are a range and field piece. Neither one is a classic carry magnum. After all, by that time the law enforcement market had shifted to wondernines and polymer.

The virtues of the Sixes have been extolled not in the gun press but on line, by shooters who are amazed at how nice a gun they are. I remember being pretty surprised that I had never even heard of these older Rugers. Like a great old movie nobody bothered to see in the theater, there's a tendency to go around telling people "hey, have you seen this movie? You HAVE to see this movie!" But I don't think that makes us kool-aid drinkers as MCGunner claims.

As far as bullet weights, the Sixes I've owned over the years have done best with 158 and heavier magnums. They do get gummy when you shoot a lot of .38 Special out of them then switch, probably because of chamber tolerances. The very best loads for shooting and accuracy were the old heavy 180 grain Black Talons. I wish I could find some more of those!

 

[Sig88]

I've always liked the Security Six but I seem to always miss the deals to buy one.

 

[toold128]

I took my boss to a gun show in Houston in January 1985. He bought a Ruger Security Six, stainless, 2 3/4".

We went to the range the next day and he did not like the recoil and blast. So he sold it to me for $100.00. In the last 25 years I have fired it over 500 rounds. Never shot anything but Remington 125gr hollow points. Never had any problems.

I have carried it every day since I got it.

 

[MCgunner]

The Security Six demise was the result of the switch to lower cost manufacturing using investment cast parts. It is less expensive to machine a cast part that's already close to the proper shape of the final part than to machine the part from a block of steel that requires more material to be removed. Parts are necessarily larger to assure strength of the casting.

Hate to tell you this, but the Six series WERE investment cast. That's a Ruger thing, has been since the 50s. Investment casting kept costs down even on the Sixs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruger_Security_Six

From Wiki....

Development and history

The introduction of the Security Six and its variants marked Sturm Ruger’s first attempt to enter the double action revolver market. The corporation's earlier designs had been Colt Peacemaker style single action revolvers. Ruger used investment casting for most parts in an effort to hold down production costs.[2] As with all Ruger firearms, the Security Six revolvers were robustly designed with large, heavy-duty parts for durability and to allow for investment casting.[2][3] The "six series" line enjoyed sales success because of their basic features, solid construction, and competitive pricing.[2]

 

[roaddog28]

Hi again,
The topic is did progress kill the K frame magnum and the Six Series revolvers? I think yes. The 1980s saw law enforcement go away from revolvers. Both of these revolvers were excellent carry/service revolvers for law enforcement "back in the day". The L frame and GP100 came out as heavy duty replacements for the K frame and Six but by then the "wonder 9 mms" were starting to take over. As a result, the L frame and the GP100 became a outdoor field and range gun. Police officers only carried a revolver as a backup and only short barried snubbies.

I also feel neither the K frame magnum or the Ruger Six Series was meant to shoot large amounts of light grain full power 357 rounds. I do feel the Ruger Six Series was stronger than the K frame and could shoot a higher count of 357 rounds in the heavier grain 357s. I do believe the statement Bill Jorden said about the 19/66. Meant to shoot 357s "only for business" and practice with 38 specials.
Bottom line. Neither one of these revolvers are made anymore but I treasure there history. The model 19/66 is nicknamed "Everything you need in a revolver and nothing you don't need". The Ruger Security Six Series had all of the features of the 19/66 but was stronger and some say not as refined. I believe the Security Six is the "most underrated revolver ever made. I shoot my Police Service Six better than my GP100. I feel the Six Series revolver was the best revolver Ruger ever made.
I love both the K frame and Six Series and enclosing pictures of my revolvers. You can see there my favorites.
Howard

Ruger Police Service Six 4 inch

S&W Model 13-2 4 inch (fixed version of the M19)

S&W Model 19-4 6 inch

S&W Model 66-4 4 inch

 

[MCgunner]

The topic is did progress kill the K frame magnum and the Six Series revolvers? I think yes. The 1980s saw law enforcement go away from revolvers.

Now there's an excellent point. Service revolvers lost out to autos in the 80s. Sales of all service revolvers have dropped off since then and the CCW market prefers smaller, lighter guns.

Nice firearms ya got there. I had a 4" M19 for a while in addition to the Six.

 

[Confederate]

So he sold it to me for $100.00. In the last 25 years I have fired it over 500 rounds. Never shot anything but Remington 125gr hollow points. Never had any problems.

If he used those skinny little grips shown, I don't doubt your friend wouldn't like it. The first S&W 681s had skinny grips and no one liked them, either. Better grips help considerably.

I have a late friend who had eleven versions of the Rugers. He had Speed-Sixes, Security-Sixes, Single-Sixes and in varying barrel lengths. He bought most of them back in the 70s and 80s. All were stainless.

Although I'm partial to the "Sixes," I'd love to have a 66 w/4-inch barrel and counterbored chambers. A stamped sideplate would be nice, too.

 

[slick6]

If he used those skinny little grips shown, I don't doubt your friend wouldn't like it. The first S&W 681s had skinny grips and no one liked them, either. Better grips help considerably.

I have a late friend who had eleven versions of the Rugers. He had Speed-Sixes, Security-Sixes, Single-Sixes and in varying barrel lengths. He bought most of them back in the 70s and 80s. All were stainless.

Although I'm partial to the "Sixes," I'd love to have a 66 w/4-inch barrel and counterbored chambers. A stamped sideplate would be nice, too.

Like you, I'm partial to the "Sixes". However, I have managed to collect three, 4" "No dash#)S&W model 66's, shown below:

 

[madcratebuilder]

The Security Six demise was the result of the switch to lower cost manufacturing using investment cast parts. It is less expensive to machine a cast part that's already close to the proper shape of the final part than to machine the part from a block of steel that requires more material to be removed. Parts are necessarily larger to assure strength of the casting.

The Security Six is investment cast.

I seem to recall a lot of gun rag ads in the 70's comparing the Ruger Security Six to the S&W 586/686 L frame. I like both the Rugers and S&W's, always room for more.

2.75" Security Six and 4" Service Six.


Pair of L frames.


586 L frame and a M27 N frame.

 

[Deaf Smith]

Well the 'progress' didn't kill mine!

Deaf

 

[Jonah71]

My 1972 Security Six has given me no problems at all. I fire a lot of .357's. The price keeps that number lower. Saw one last week for $325 with some very visible pitting and beginnings of serious rust problems. Makes me feel a little less stupid for paying $425 for my "like new" Six. I know.....way too much $$ but I feel like I'e got my moneys worth already this summer.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

You paid $425 for a "like new" Security Six, and you feel like that might have been too much? Consider what you would pay for any new and "comparable" Taurus, S&W, or recent Ruger. In todays market, I'd say you still have a bargain.

 

[Jonah71]

You paid $425 for a "like new" Security Six, and you feel like that might have been too much? Consider what you would pay for any new and "comparable" Taurus, S&W, or recent Ruger. In todays market, I'd say you still have a bargain.

That's good to know. I bought it not really knowing a thing about it and was really just trusting my dealer. For some reason I thought having the 4" bbl made the Sec. 6 less valuable. Just as I did with the old 1958 S&W 4" Mod 14 he sold me for $445. He told me at the time that he believed the 4" was harder to find in the Mod. 14. Found out here at THR that it (S&W) was part of a special order for the Air Force. I'd previousy believed it was made for the KC Police.
I really have no business buying guns without finding out everything I can about them first. I went home last night and made a list of the 11 guns I've bought from him this past year and compared the prices to Gun Broker and Buds. All things considered, he's treated me right. I've kept 3 of the Rugers, 2 Smiths, 1 Sig, and the Kimber. I've been to everyplace I can find in about a 50-70 mi. radius and can't find one that beats his overall prices. Give me another 10 years and I might know what I'm doing. (or maybe 20)

 

[harmon rabb]

The Security Six demise was the result of the switch to lower cost manufacturing using investment cast parts. It is less expensive to machine a cast part that's already close to the proper shape of the final part than to machine the part from a block of steel that requires more material to be removed. Parts are necessarily larger to assure strength of the casting

It works though. You'll never see anyone calling the GP100 and SP101 anything but tanks.

 

[DrLaw]

My K-frame Model 66 has been shot mostly with .38 specials, wadcutters and round nose. However, I have stoked it from time to time with .357 magnums in 125 and 158 grain, Remington and the old Smith & Wesson loads, and reloads loaded not too particularly hot.

It has stood up to those without any problems.

The Doc is out now.

 

[Lucky Derby]

DrLaw-Is the book in that photo a novel or an LE textbook? I love the Pontiac patrol car in the cover art.
BTW that's a nice K frame.

 

[Deaf Smith]

My 1972 Security Six has given me no problems at all. I fire a lot of .357's. The price keeps that number lower. Saw one last week for $325 with some very visible pitting and beginnings of serious rust problems. Makes me feel a little less stupid for paying $425 for my "like new" Six. I know.....way too much $$ but I feel like I'e got my moneys worth already this summer.

You have! While I try to shop around and my most expensive Security Six cost me $345, they are still bargans. I really don't think most revolvers today are as good. Yea they use CNC machinery, but I notice there seems to be more flaws. Barrels flying off, barrels blowing in half, trigger locks malfunctioning, etc...

Deaf

 

[Confederate]

Some nice photos, Slick! All three have unblackened sights. Did you do that or is that how you got them?

I ground the grips off two of mine so they take round-butts.

 

[slick6]

Some nice photos, Slick! All three have unblackened sights. Did you do that or is that how you got them?

I ground the grips off two of mine so they take round-butts.

1)First, let me say, that my pictures certainly can't compete with your pictures! Yours are consistently great looking! I had an older low cost camera that somehow, resulted in the pretty nice photo above, of my three S&W M66 no dash # revolvers! But, my recent pictures with my newer digital camera didn't turn out too good!

2)Oops! I made a "boo-boo" in the above picture of my supposedly three S&W M66 no dash# revolvers! Only two of two of the three are in that photo-because I mistakenly, photographed one of those two twice! However, I do have the third M66 No dash #-in the same condition, that came from the factory with the black rear sight. It also, came with the red marker in the front sight! The other two are earlier production M66's and they came with the all stainless rear sight, with the all black front sight!

 

[vanagon40]

DrLaw-Is the book in that photo a novel or an LE textbook? I love the Pontiac patrol car in the cover art.
BTW that's a nice K frame.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=officer+down+code+three

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Gratuitous photo: When the typical auto pistol consistently puts shots in a target (25 yards) like this $390 like new Ruger Security Six does (Farrant grips extra), then perhaps the wheelgun will be retired. I do not know if they all shoot this well, but when I want to show off, this gun makes it easy. Handload was a full magnum 158gr Remington JSP.

[/IMG]

 

[WardenWolf]

There's the SP-101 and the GP100. The Security Six, being an older design, just wasn't as popular as some of the newer compact magnums, nor was it as strong due to its older design that was simply scaled up from .38 Special. The SP-101 really took the place of the Security Six, far more so than the monster GP100. My family has both an SP-101 and a GP100. I refer to the GP100 as the "BFR". The SP-101 is my father's truck gun, and has been for many years.

Those older designs like the Security Six are a legacy from another time when the .38 Special reigned supreme. Guns aren't built like that anymore. They're built stronger, and reinforced in key areas that time and experience has shown suffer the most stress. Yet many of them are similarly compact, though some only hold 5 shots. They lack some of the elegance of the older designs, being noticeably beefier and utilitarian, but that's progress.

 

[slick6]

There's the SP-101 and the GP100. The Security Six, being an older design, just wasn't as popular as some of the newer compact magnums, nor was it as strong due to its older design that was simply scaled up from .38 Special. The SP-101 really took the place of the Security Six, far more so than the monster GP100. My family has both an SP-101 and a GP100. I refer to the GP100 as the "BFR". The SP-101 is my father's truck gun, and has been for many years.

Those older designs like the Security Six are a legacy from another time when the .38 Special reigned supreme. Guns aren't built like that anymore. They're built stronger, and reinforced in key areas that time and experience has shown suffer the most stress. Yet many of them are similarly compact, though some only hold 5 shots. They lack some of the elegance of the older designs, being noticeably beefier and utilitarian, but that's progress.

WardenWolf:

The Security Six is one of the strongest medium frame revolvers ever made. Unlike the Smith and Wesson K-frame that was originally designed only to shoot .38 Special's and then, when Bill Jordan introduced the new Combat Magnum(Later called the model 19 in 1957)these were just beefed up K-frames and heat treated to enable shooting the .357 magmum's-but, only about 10% of the time with the .38 Special's intended for target practice. The model 19 was not intended to shoot the .357 magnum ammo on a continuous basis!

Bill Ruger was well aware of the inability of the S&W .357 K-frames to withstand the constant firing of the .357 magnum's and his mind was set to introduce his much stronger Security-Six to the World in 1971. The Security-Six never started out as a .38 Special revolver-as it was designed and built from the ground up to be a real .357 magnum revolver. that could withstand the constant shooting of this round! The Security Six(And, the later Service/Speed-Sixes)have proven over the years in service, to be very strong revolvers! Over 1-1/2 million of these fine revolvers were produced with not much ever going wrong with them!

Although the GP100 was introduced to compete in the marketplace with S&W's L-frame revolvers, Ruger knew that he didn't need to offer this new GP100 due to any weakness in the Six Series revolvers(Like S&W needed to do in view of their K-frames not being able to cope with constantly firing the .357 magnum rounds)but, to just have an equivalent L-frame sized revolver in the marketplace. Yes, the GP100 is stronger than a Six Series revolver by virtue of being a larger gun and via having the front crane lock up. There were some other small improvements-but, these were minor upgrades from the Six Series revolvers in which the GP100 was based upon. Both of these guns have the same modular type of construction. The GP100 does have the advantage of the grip stud design with the original Ruger Rubber grips which are great to dampen recoil. Both the Sixes and the GP100 are both excellent revolvers and are very popular today. Most folks don't stop to consider that, in 1971 the new Security Six was Ruger's fist double action revolver and it had to compete with the 100 year old Colt and Smith and Wesson, traditional(hammer & forge)revolver designs! Investment cast forgings were new and the modular construction of the Security Six was a revolutionary-but, untrusted developement. It took time, but, today, there are many happy Six Series owner's-and these revolvers are very popular! Just see how hard it is to find these revolvers nowadays? Owner's don't want to let loose of them! There's also been alot of forum discussions going on, regarding these fine and trustworthy revolvers!

 

[Paul7]

The Rugers had the same problem with the skinny grips. I sold mine long ago and don't miss it. Recently got a used Colt Trooper for $350 that IMHO is a much better gun.

 

[slick6]

The Rugers had the same problem with the skinny grips. I sold mine long ago and don't miss it. Recently got a used Colt Trooper for $350 that IMHO is a much better gun.

Ruger also offered target grips on the Security Six or you could special order them! Here is a picture of one of my Security Sixes which was shipped from Ruger with the Target grips: