The Sixth of June. For ALL the heros...

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For those who are able:

Check out the D-Day memorial in Bedford, VA:

http://www.dday.org/

Most impressive and they are not even finished with it yet.

Thank you to those who fought. Thank you to those who made the greatest sacrifice.
 
I have great respect for those whom lost their lives in war, there have been a couple in my family. But I have always thought it to be a bit odd that "we" condemn being sheeple, and at the same time are staunch supporters of blind nationalism. What is it that makes one so devoted to a country that they would die for it? How do authoritative figures prey on this desire?
These are just some questions I think about from time to time. I guess I just don't get it.
 
But I have always thought it to be a bit odd that "we" condemn being sheeple, and at the same time are staunch supporters of blind nationalism.

Really, there is blind nationalism here?

As I recall, and please correct me if I am wrong, D-Day was fought to free Europe. Nationalism implies that we are only concerned about our own race. Again, and I might be wrong, I seem to recall that D-Day was fought to free many different races from the clutches of tyranny and oppression. In fact, very few Americans were under Nazi tyranny at the time.

Such horrible nationalists we are.
 
Scrat, my grandfather also was in a tank destroyer battalion and spent some time in Texas ("Nice country" as he referred to it). He wasn't part of the initial D-day attack at Normandy but did come into Europe through there a few days later (or so he told me).

He passed away a few fears ago, lived into his 90s, and certainly is the greatest man I have ever known...

I have a profound respect for the soldiers of D-Day. High school history class doesn't do it justice, and while "Saving Private Ryan" was moving, "The War" put D-Day and WWII into a whole new light for me.
 
Remember those other June heroes.

They earned it at a place called Belleau Wood.

They should not be forgotten.
 
granpa was in france in ww1, dad was at bastonge, I was medic in the Nam, my son flew choppers in Irag and Afganistan, nothing we did can ever match the deeds of the fallen heros, god bless them and let their deeds and sacrafices be remembered forever
 
hgunhuntr

I heard a story once of a German and Swiss general;
German"I have 5 million men, how many can you field?
Swiss "1 million"
G What would you do if I marched my men thru Switzerland to Europe?
S "My men would fire five rounds and go home"
Any truth to this?
As for mindless nationalism, I worry more about mindless socialism.
robert
 
I guess I still haven't heard a answer to the questions posed.

As for your analogy, it seems a bit off base, yes the Swiss are superior marksmen, so what?
 
Scrat, my grandfather also was in a tank destroyer battalion and spent some time in Texas ("Nice country" as he referred to it). He wasn't part of the initial D-day attack at Normandy but did come into Europe through there a few days later (or so he told me).

He passed away a few fears ago, lived into his 90s, and certainly is the greatest man I have ever known...

I have a profound respect for the soldiers of D-Day. High school history class doesn't do it justice, and while "Saving Private Ryan" was moving, "The War" put D-Day and WWII into a whole new light for me.
__________________


WOW small world

the only thing my grandfather said of texas was it was very hot and humid and all the guys including himself smelled really bad every day when they were out in the fields sweating it up. Said ever since then he had no reason to ever go back to texas
 
I have a special interest in D-Day. I've gotten tears in my eyes reading some of the stories from those that survived it.
 
628 Tank Destroyers Battalion

This is where my grandfather entered the european circuit.

BAPTISM OF FIRE:
Having landed on Utah Beach in Normandy, France, on 30 July 1944, this Battalion was peacefully bivouaced in an apple orchard near LeValdecie, France until 1730 hours, 2 August 1944, when word was received that the Battalion was assigned to the 5th Armored Division, XV Corps, Third Army, and would prepare to move at once. At this time the Battalion was Assigned the Code name "Victory" which was used throughout the period of combat.

It was for this moment that the Battalion had trained since 10 July 1941, and once tactically committed on 2 August 1944, there were very few days when some members of the organization were not on a combat status n France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Holland and Germany, until the unconditional surrender on 9 May 1945.

Initially the entire Battalion was kept intact, however, as orders were receive to commit one company after another, it became normal operating procedure to attach one Reconnaisance Company Platoon to each of the Tank Destroyer Gun Companies, which in turn were attached to each of the three Combat Commands, Co. "A" to CCA, Co. "B" to CCB, Co. "C" to CCR. Battalion Headquarters, Headquarters Company, Medical Detachment and Reconnaissance Company Headquarters, with Pioneer Platoon, being attached to Headquarters 5th Armored Divison Artillery. The Battalion Personnel Section was attached to Administrative Center in Division Rear Echelon.

The initial mission of the 5th Armored Division, given after the Battalion arrived in the Division rendezvous area at 2145 hours, 2 August 1944 in the vicinity of Perier, France, was the taking of Fougeres, with the main objective of Laval. Battalion route of march went thru Noirpalu via St. Martin to St. James. On 4 August 1944, Lt. John J. Devine, Jr., Platoon Leader, Co. "A", went on a Reconnaissance mission in vicinity of La Pelerne, France, and made the first contact by a member of this Battalion with an enemy force. Lt. Devine subsequently died of wounds received in the Argantan, France on 12 August 1944.

The Battalion left bivouac near St. James, at 0930 hours, 6 August 1944 and proceeded thru Fougeres, Vitre, Meral, Crosse-Le-Vivien to Houssay, France. Near Meral the column was fired on with small arms by enemy snipers and three German prisoners were captured by the Reconnaissance Company, in vicinity of Cross-Le-Vivien. The following day the march was through Poille, where an enemy machine gun nest was encountered and subsequently knocked out by direct fire from two M-10's from Company "A". From Poille, France, the column proceeded thru Louplande, Arnage, Maingne to Les Sommeres, in vicinity of Le Mans, France. At Arnage sniper fire and enemy 88 mm Artillery fire was directed against the column, and Maigne was the first of many towns to be seen completely on fire. Thus, at this early stage in its progress across Europe, did the Battalion receive its baptism of fire in combat, a baptism which continued in an ever increasing crescendo until the banks of the Elbe River in Germany were reached.


Taken from 628 Tank Destroyer Battalion pages http://www.5ad.org/units/628td.html
 
This is one of the letters that hang in the reception at the American cemetery at Colleville in Normandy.

The White House
Washington
1956

To Those Who Participate In The Dedication At St.Laurent:

Twelve years ago on D-Day in Normandy, the landings on the coast of France were the symbol and the noble expression of Allied unity and Allied determination in a great crusade.

I know it is small consolation to the bereaved to remember that the gallant men who are remembered today gave their lives at one of the critical moments in history. Yet the american soldiers who rest forever near the beach-head they won, and in the land they helped to free, will never be forgotten.

Their memory will always help strengthen the bonds of freindship between our countries, historic allies for the cause of human freedom.

Dwight Eisenhower.
 
D-Day in pictures...

d-day01.jpg

dday3.jpg


dday4.jpg


photo-D-Day.jpg

d-day_2.jpg


d-day04.jpg

d-day06.jpg
 
I guess I still haven't heard a answer to the questions posed.

As for your analogy, it seems a bit off base, yes the Swiss are superior marksmen, so what?

what question? you made a ignorant comment about free nations coming to the aid of the oppressed being "nationalism". maybe switzerland didnt feel the pinch ( normally you don't get the pinch when your a collaborator ) but the Allies lost alot of good men, hell il argue most of Europe lost an entire generation of its greatest men. celebrating the deeds of our dead and not only our nation, but out allies France England Poland Russia Belgium and all the rest, cant even bee misconstrued as nationalism. good men combined against a common evil.

if you really want to continue your current outbursts, go ahead make incorrect comments against a generation that stood up and died to make men free .
 
Incorrect comments?
I didn't even directly refer to the US in my statement. I simply asked, What is it that makes one so devoted to a country that they would die for it? How do authoritative figures prey on this desire?

Your attitude is exactly what I am talking about referrring to a blind ferver.

I would hardly call my comments and questions outbursts.
 
Incorrect comments?
I didn't even directly refer to the US in my statement. I simply asked, What is it that makes one so devoted to a country that they would die for it? How do authoritative figures prey on this desire?

Your attitude is exactly what I am talking about referrring to a blind ferver.

I will note for you your own comments.

I have great respect for those whom lost their lives in war, there have been a couple in my family. But I have always thought it to be a bit odd that "we" condemn being sheeple, and at the same time are staunch supporters of blind nationalism. What is it that makes one so devoted to a country that they would die for it? How do authoritative figures prey on this desire?

You did not simply "ask", you implied that those here who are thanking those who fought and those who died on D-Day are "blind nationalists."

Otherwise, you would not have said:

But I have always thought it to be a bit odd that "we" condemn being sheeple, and at the same time are staunch supporters of blind nationalism.

That's not an "idle question." That's an accusation. I, for one, am through answering you as you have ignored mine.
 
Sorry, I didn't mean to imply anything.

Intonation is notoriously difficult to convey over a keyboard, my apologies.

Now, can anyone give me an answer, or at least an opinion? I am truly interested.

I would be more than happy to answer your question Mak attak if I knew what it was.
 
What is it that makes one so devoted to a country that they would die for it?

what makes some one so devoted they would die for their family or child?

why should i bother trying to defend myself, i mean what makes my life more important than the killers?


its all beliefs and morals.
there are some things im not willing to die for.
my car, my wallet etc.
some things im willing to fight/die for.
principal, freedom, rights, friends, family and non aggressors and those fighting for freedom even if iv never met them.

hardly nationalism. if it happens to be the easiest way to do these things is with the support of a military, cool.

im hardly nationalistic, matter of fact im regularly arguing against it

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=300157&highlight=nationalism
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=363062&highlight=nationalism
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=332004&highlight=nationalism
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=313955&highlight=nationalism

theres more im sure. but you get my point. the fact that it was america, england, france, russia VS Japan and Germany isnt the point

its that it was good men fighting because their homes had been attacked and they wouldn't let their lands be conquered, or because they wanted to help those who were already conquered

none of the men hitting the beach 64 years ago had alternate motives of Empires or the like. they went because they saw a threat. America got involved after being attacked, and were even reluctant to declare war on germany, germany declared war on the US.
England and France went to war over poland.
Russia was attack
Poland was conquered

i dont see nationalistic fanning of the flames to start war on the allies part.
 
My Maternal Grandpa was an officer in the USMC and fought at Guadalcanal, Tarawa, Saipan, and Tinian. God bless him and his brothers-in-arms.

My Paternal Grandpa was sitting at a train station in France waiting to go to the western front on November 10th, 1918, writing a letter to my grandma that said "I hear we may not have to go up to the front tomorrow." :D
 
Hey now Max. American GI's entered the war in Europe prior to June 6, 1944. Not denigrating the Soviet's war prior to that at all, but let's give the U.S. a bit more credit than that.

In November '42, Americans participated in North African campaign, and July '43, Americans and British invaded Sicily, and began marching up the boot.
 
Today, the "progressive liberals" would be calling for "Impeachment of the Rabid Fundamentalist President," for violating the First Amendment. You know, "separation of church and State."


"My Fellow Americans:

Last night, when I spoke with you about the fall of Rome, I knew at that moment that troops of the United States and our Allies were crossing the Channel in another and greater operation. It has come to pass with success thus far.

And so, in this poignant hour, I ask you to join with me in prayer:

Almighty God: Our sons, pride of our nation, this day have set upon a mighty endeavor, a struggle to preserve our Republic, our religion, and our civilization, and to set free a suffering humanity.

Lead them straight and true; give strength to their arms, stoutness to their hearts, steadfastness in their faith.

They will need Thy blessings. Their road will be long and hard. For the enemy is strong. He may hurl back our forces. Success may not come with rushing speed, but we shall return again and again; and we know that by Thy grace, and by the righteousness of our cause, our sons will triumph.

They will be sore tried, by night and by day, without rest -- until the victory is won. The darkness will be rent by noise and flame. Men's souls will be shaken with the violences of war.

For these men are lately drawn from the ways of peace. They fight not for the lust of conquest. They fight to end conquest. They fight to liberate. They fight to let justice arise, and tolerance and goodwill among all Thy people. They yearn but for the end of battle, for their return to the haven of home.

Some will never return. Embrace these, Father, and receive them, Thy heroic servants, into Thy kingdom.

And for us at home -- fathers, mothers, children, wives, sisters, and brothers of brave men overseas, whose thoughts and prayers are ever with them -- help us, Almighty God, to rededicate ourselves in renewed faith in Thee in this hour of great sacrifice.

Many people have urged that I call the nation into a single day of special prayer. But because the road is long and the desire is great, I ask that our people devote themselves in a continuance of prayer. As we rise to each new day, and again when each day is spent, let words of prayer be on our lips, invoking Thy help to our efforts.

Give us strength, too -- strength in our daily tasks, to redouble the contributions we make in the physical and the material support of our armed forces.

And let our hearts be stout, to wait out the long travail, to bear sorrows that may come, to impart our courage unto our sons wheresoever they may be.

And, O Lord, give us faith. Give us faith in Thee; faith in our sons; faith in each other; faith in our united crusade. Let not the keeness of our spirit ever be dulled. Let not the impacts of temporary events, of temporal matters of but fleeting moment -- let not these deter us in our unconquerable purpose.

With Thy blessing, we shall prevail over the unholy forces of our enemy. Help us to conquer the apostles of greed and racial arrogances. Lead us to the saving of our country, and with our sister nations into a world unity that will spell a sure peace -- a peace invulnerable to the schemings of unworthy men. And a peace that will let all of men live in freedom, reaping the just rewards of their honest toil.

Thy will be done, Almighty God.

Amen.

Franklin D. Roosevelt - June 6, 1944"



L.W.
 
Leanwolf, I think you overstate it.

That was a very nice, non-denominational prayer, given at a time when so many feared so much.

Then, as now, there were probably people who objected, but back then, they couldn't get anybody to listen to their ravings. Now, the media is more than happy to give kooks a public forum.
 
I wasn't referring to a particular war or battle, it's significance or otherwise.

Dying for ones's nation and leaving a struggling family is not my idea of duty or honor, rather the opposite.
 
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Dying for ones's nation and leaving a struggling family is not my idea of duty or honor, rather the opposite.

Well, the situation in WW2 was such that the Allied heros weren't fighting and dying for their nation so much as fighting and dying to combat absolute evil, and for the greater good. But I guess you wouldn't know much about that in Switzerland.
 
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