The Slash Verses The Thrust

[Gunfighter123]

Hello,

Just got done reading/thinking about the "push-dagger" post. I thought I would throw out a few things for us to cuss { opps !!! Discuss } as to The Slash Verses The Thrust.

For starters , I remember reading somewhere that for a Thrust to reach most of the bodies vital areas , it should be a Four Inch minimum length. What say you all ?????


As to the Slash ---- I have seen videos and then have tried the same demo on large cuts of uncooked pork ----- A very small blade { I used a Spyderco SPOT } with a 1 1/2" blade cut to a depth of almost SIX INCHES on the slab of pork !!!! The people who made the video called this a
" compression cut " .


Then the authors showed the same demo useing a large fixed blade { almost a Bowie design " with about a 8" blade. The shocking thing to me was the BIG blade only cut to a depth of about 4" inches !!!!

I tried the same test with a 6" Recurve/Barong blade and cut the pork to about 6 inches --- same as the 1 1/2" SPOT !!!!

Thoughts and comments Gentleman.

 

[RyanM]

As to the Slash ---- I have seen videos and then have tried the same demo on large cuts of uncooked pork ----- A very small blade { I used a Spyderco SPOT } with a 1 1/2" blade cut to a depth of almost SIX INCHES on the slab of pork !!!! The people who made the video called this a
" compression cut " .

I bet $1,000,000 you used skinless pork, and had no leather or anything else over it. Skin is a lot tougher than muscle, and live muscle is tougher than dead. Try firmly attaching some 1/8" thick leather over some pork, and try the experiment again.

 

[glistam]

I believe the "four-inch to reach vitals" is a myth perpetuated by people idly speculating why laws on knife length were made. Certainly the throat requires nothing anywhere near that long. And someone who is obese could potentially take a very long blade to the abdomen without hitting organs.

Thrusts are usually targeted at the organs in the trunk of the body. Think the rules of foil fencing. The purpose is usually to pierce said organ and cause a few different effects depending which one (lungs loose ability to remain inflated, heart's ability to function is damaged, liver leaks bile and blood into the abdominal cavity.) Slashes tend to be made with the idea of severing muscle or blood vessels, affecting movement ability or causes rapid blood loss respectively. The infliction of pain is sometimes a intent/consequence as well.

Of course, stabs can sever muscles and arteries (in Thornton v. MD, defendant stabbed a man in the thigh and in doing so severed his external iliac artery. He lost consciousness and died within minutes.) And slashes can puncture organs if they are deep enough.

 

[hso]

The problem with cutting a hunk of pork/beef/wombat is that it lacks the skin and clothing. The better, I won't say "best", test is to use a BIG hunk of meat with a "skin" over it and clothing. The skin should simulate human skin so latex glove material is probably best. The skin and clothing will "support" the hand making the slash/stab as well as resist it. This may limit the extent of compression cuts and stabs more than bare grocery store meat.

All that said, compression does occur with impact cutting so that depth of cut/stab can be greater than just the length of blade since soft tissue does give.

 

[Gunfighter123]

RyanM;

I bet $1,000,000 you used skinless pork,

Your right ---- will you take my IOU or do you want a check ?? Either one is fine with me as NEITHER is any good !!!!!


HSO ----- I think that would be a better " test" with raw meat covered with 2 or 3 layers of latex and then some type of clothes rather then 1/8" of leather .

BTW --- I DID insert a cut down "broom stick" thru the pork roast to make it more ridged like a bicep or arm etc.

What REALLY surprised me was the results of the MUCH smaller blade cutting deeper then the longer blade. The vid author stated/felt that it had to do with " leverage ? " in that with a longer blade there was more "give" to the users wrist --thus less penetration.

I will state that a LARGE edged weapon like a short sword , machette , golok , bolo , or other " chopper " will cut deeper then a 6-8" blade fighting knife.

I will do a Net search and see if I can find/post a link to the videos I'm talking about.

And Ryan ---- your check is in the mail !!! LOL

 

[RyanM]

What REALLY surprised me was the results of the MUCH smaller blade cutting deeper then the longer blade. The vid author stated/felt that it had to do with " leverage ? " in that with a longer blade there was more "give" to the users wrist --thus less penetration.

Leverage does play a pretty big part. One thing I've noticed is that once you add clothes and skin, it's pretty important that a short blade does not have a "choil" on it, as that will tend to cause the blade to hang up if it snags on anything. I got rid of my Emerson LaGriffe because of that.

Oh, sort of off topic, on skin simulants. For BB guns, but not knives, I've noticed that plastic milk jugs full of water are really good simulators. If a BB gun will shoot into a milk jug, it will probably break skin. If it just dents the jug, it'll only leave a welt. Pretty handy if you're trying to figure out if a cheap BB gun will kill a squirrel that's raiding your bird feeder, or only give him a bruise. But I doubt milk jug material would be a good skin simulant for knives.

 

[Beelzy]

The Slash!

Nobody wears clothing on their face either!

 

[jahwarrior]

i'm partial to the slash, or cut, over the stab. slashing is a bit more natural, in terms of body mechanics,, than stabbing is. you have to keep in mind that the goal of any fight is to end it as quickly as possible. stabbing does more damage to internal organs than it does to muscles, rendons, and ligaments. even though a good stab can kill someone with a vital hit to an organ, the effects aren't always immediate. an attacker can keep fighting witgh his liver, pancreas, or lung pierced.

slashing can do a lot more damage, with less effort; taking out key muscle groups, like the bicep, thigh, , wrist, etc, can pretty much disable an attacker, giving you time to run, without having to kill him. just my 2 cents.

 

[Deltaboy1984]

I taught my girls to slash the top of the hands or wrist then neck and face if needed with their Boxcutters. Put in a fresh blade everyother month and drop it in your purse when you go out at night or stash it somewhere else.