rfwobbly
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Looking at Amazon just now I note there seem to be multiple printings, including 2002 & 2007.
The snubbie revolver, by Ed Lovette
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MedWheeler
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I'll have to give it a look. I'm currently resisting re-discovering the snub-nose revolver this week, the third anniversary of my dad's death. One of the two guns he left behind is an old Undercover .38, and I've been carrying it in his memory this week. It dates from 1966 (as do I!) and is a neat little revolver. He acquired it most likely during the early eighties, during a time in which we did not know each other.
Ironically, that same decade, I was sworn in as a LEO, and gifted myself that day with an Undercover .38 of my own. Neither of us knew the other was in LE (he was a deputy in Colorado for a time), and we were both carrying the same guns, though 21 years in age separated them.
We re-connected about ten years before he died. Both his duty guns (the snub and his Service Six) now help me feel secure, and still close again.
Ironically, that same decade, I was sworn in as a LEO, and gifted myself that day with an Undercover .38 of my own. Neither of us knew the other was in LE (he was a deputy in Colorado for a time), and we were both carrying the same guns, though 21 years in age separated them.
We re-connected about ten years before he died. Both his duty guns (the snub and his Service Six) now help me feel secure, and still close again.
henschman
Member
Earlier this year I was shopping around for a pocket gun in a more potent caliber than the .380 I had been carrying for years. I was looking at snubbies, along with pocket sized autos. I ended up going with a Kahr CM9. It had a lot of advantages over the snubbie... 7 rounds vs. 5 (8 if you use one of the extended grip magazines), better trigger, better sights, quicker to reload, and it is slimmer... when in a pocket holster, the "print" does not look like a gun.
The only advantages the wheel gun had that I could see were that it could be fired from inside a coat pocket without jamming, and wouldn't go out of battery in the aforementioned instance of a contact shot. Not enough to outweigh the significant advantages of the auto in my mind. Are there any advantages to the snubbie I am overlooking?
The only advantages the wheel gun had that I could see were that it could be fired from inside a coat pocket without jamming, and wouldn't go out of battery in the aforementioned instance of a contact shot. Not enough to outweigh the significant advantages of the auto in my mind. Are there any advantages to the snubbie I am overlooking?
Capacity, trigger, and sights do make a big difference to me.
I'm not sure about reloading...I don't see it likely that one would be able to do so during a confrontation.
Functional reliability, insensitivity to limp wresting, and ability to handle a wider variety of ammunition.
David E
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While I understand reloading during the confrontation is unlikely, I sure want to be able to reload after....,in case it isn't really over yet.
There have been cases where the bad guy came back inside the store/business after he had left. (Lock the door if possible and safe to do so to prevent this)
There have been cases where the bad guy came back inside the store/business after he had left. (Lock the door if possible and safe to do so to prevent this)
mrdeltoid
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That's a great book. Lots of good stuff in there about the utility of a snubby. The snubby revolver is kind of like the square bladed short handled shovel. Very versatile. Every gardener should have one in their tool kit.
tomrkba
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Don't forget Grant Cunningham's book The Gun Digest Book of the Revolver.
Deltaboy1984
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You need full cut pleated front slacks.
Some pretty low cost smart phones have a very low-cost timer-app that you can get. There is no reason at all for this "shooting as fast as I can" sort of generality anymore. That can mean anything from 1/3 second for 3 hits to 6 seconds for those same 3 hits.. 
So let's hear some average times, for several runs, with group sizes and distances quoted, along with the load used. Getting fast repeat hits with midrange wadcutters is nothing like as hard as doing the same thing with 158 gr plus p ammo.
I use a Kahr 9mm, because, as Cooper said, a .38 in your pocket makes you look like a potato-smuggler.
So let's hear some average times, for several runs, with group sizes and distances quoted, along with the load used. Getting fast repeat hits with midrange wadcutters is nothing like as hard as doing the same thing with 158 gr plus p ammo.
I use a Kahr 9mm, because, as Cooper said, a .38 in your pocket makes you look like a potato-smuggler.
David E
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Here's one I ran 4 years ago:
First run of the day was with the S&W 442 using Federal 158 grain LSWCHP+P. Target was a sheet of copy paper at 5 yds. At signal, I thrust towards the target and fired 5 shots. They were:
.67
.28
.25
.25
.24
-------
1.69 total time.
Group size was 3 3/8th's", with the best 3 right at one inch.
Comment: I thought this was a pretty good cold run with a gun I've not shot for a couple years. I also felt like I went slow, to ensure good hits.
I can't get the picture to display, sorry. If anyone cares, the thread was called "Range trip with SD drill results" in the "General Handguns" area.
First run of the day was with the S&W 442 using Federal 158 grain LSWCHP+P. Target was a sheet of copy paper at 5 yds. At signal, I thrust towards the target and fired 5 shots. They were:
.67
.28
.25
.25
.24
-------
1.69 total time.
Group size was 3 3/8th's", with the best 3 right at one inch.
Comment: I thought this was a pretty good cold run with a gun I've not shot for a couple years. I also felt like I went slow, to ensure good hits.
I can't get the picture to display, sorry. If anyone cares, the thread was called "Range trip with SD drill results" in the "General Handguns" area.
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Ed Lovette's book and Grant Cunningham's two books (the first is about revolvers in general and the second is using them in defense) are about the only recent books covering revolvers recently. Mas Ayoob talks about them somewhat in his Gun Digest Conceal Carry and Combat Handgunnery books with some other useful pointers.
I agree that the snubbie is probably not what most people should start with today for concealed carry. It definitely requires practice to shoot well but it works for some of us due to the thing being so easy to carry.
If I had the choices and money back then to spend on CCW, I would have started with something like a 3913 S&W or the like. Firing K Frames and then the Model 92 in the Air Force predisposed me to like revolvers better. For me, the Beretta 92 was simply too big and I fired it poorly (small hands) compared with the Model 15s that it replaced.
I inherited a pre GCA PPK in .380 and a Smith Model 60 no dash J Frame when my father passed. I really tried to like the PPK, it was extremely accurate at 7 yards even with the tiny sights but it jammed with almost all hollowpoints and frequently with fmj. Not to mention the slide cuts. The Smith on the other hand was as accurate as the PPK at 7 yds and despite the narrow sights was more accurate at a distance. It also did not jam nor give me any trouble whatsoever with whatever I fed it. Last, but not least, with Hogue grips, it fits me like a glove. I have shot several thousand rounds through the gun and I have confidence in it working if needed. I also carry two HKS speedloaders and practice reloading with them.
The one shortcoming that Lovette's book has is that he does not go into great detail about the reloading process. Cunningham's books do using speedloaders and he goes into great detail about it with various loaders and techniques.
I agree with those that snubbies have shortcomings--difficult to shoot, smaller capacity, and difficult to reload speedily. They also have some virtues--less likely to have problems with ammunition. Mechanical reliabilty about the same. Carry weight a slight edge to automatics as with recoil. Manual of arms for revolvers, simpler. Last but not least, revolvers are generally more accurate per dollar spent than small semi automatics which matters more at distance.
I view my snubbie as last resort get away medicine for CCW--not to engage in a high round gunfight. Home is a different matter and I have high capacity semis and more powerful revolvers for that. But, if I am doing yardwork, the snubbie at hand beats an arsenal inside the house.
I agree that the snubbie is probably not what most people should start with today for concealed carry. It definitely requires practice to shoot well but it works for some of us due to the thing being so easy to carry.
If I had the choices and money back then to spend on CCW, I would have started with something like a 3913 S&W or the like. Firing K Frames and then the Model 92 in the Air Force predisposed me to like revolvers better. For me, the Beretta 92 was simply too big and I fired it poorly (small hands) compared with the Model 15s that it replaced.
I inherited a pre GCA PPK in .380 and a Smith Model 60 no dash J Frame when my father passed. I really tried to like the PPK, it was extremely accurate at 7 yards even with the tiny sights but it jammed with almost all hollowpoints and frequently with fmj. Not to mention the slide cuts. The Smith on the other hand was as accurate as the PPK at 7 yds and despite the narrow sights was more accurate at a distance. It also did not jam nor give me any trouble whatsoever with whatever I fed it. Last, but not least, with Hogue grips, it fits me like a glove. I have shot several thousand rounds through the gun and I have confidence in it working if needed. I also carry two HKS speedloaders and practice reloading with them.
The one shortcoming that Lovette's book has is that he does not go into great detail about the reloading process. Cunningham's books do using speedloaders and he goes into great detail about it with various loaders and techniques.
I agree with those that snubbies have shortcomings--difficult to shoot, smaller capacity, and difficult to reload speedily. They also have some virtues--less likely to have problems with ammunition. Mechanical reliabilty about the same. Carry weight a slight edge to automatics as with recoil. Manual of arms for revolvers, simpler. Last but not least, revolvers are generally more accurate per dollar spent than small semi automatics which matters more at distance.
I view my snubbie as last resort get away medicine for CCW--not to engage in a high round gunfight. Home is a different matter and I have high capacity semis and more powerful revolvers for that. But, if I am doing yardwork, the snubbie at hand beats an arsenal inside the house.
I consider any gunfight to be a disaster.
I want to shoot him before he can get off a shot, justified by his attempting to do so. More likely, tho, he will have "only" a knife or a club, or force of numbers. So a lot of shots should not be needed.
"High-round gunfights" are vehemently to be avoided, regardless of what gun you are carrying. You aint a cop. Every rd fired, by you OR the bad guy, you can easily wind up being held responsible for. Mostly, tho, no shots need to be fired at all, or 1-2 misses suffice to run them off. Normally, the attacker does not have a gun. I have pointed guns at people several times. They all froze in their tracks. Any cop will tell you the same thing.
So, pretty much any pocket gun suffices, normally. I greatly prefer a Kahr CM9 to the .38 snub, tho, in case things get bad, and because it lies much "flatter" in my pocket holster. The .38 snub has minimal chances of expanding a hp in flesh. The 1300+ fps (from a 3" barrel) CorBon 9mm jhp does expand nicely, and it's got 400 ft lbs from the little 9.
I want to shoot him before he can get off a shot, justified by his attempting to do so. More likely, tho, he will have "only" a knife or a club, or force of numbers. So a lot of shots should not be needed.
"High-round gunfights" are vehemently to be avoided, regardless of what gun you are carrying. You aint a cop. Every rd fired, by you OR the bad guy, you can easily wind up being held responsible for. Mostly, tho, no shots need to be fired at all, or 1-2 misses suffice to run them off. Normally, the attacker does not have a gun. I have pointed guns at people several times. They all froze in their tracks. Any cop will tell you the same thing.
So, pretty much any pocket gun suffices, normally. I greatly prefer a Kahr CM9 to the .38 snub, tho, in case things get bad, and because it lies much "flatter" in my pocket holster. The .38 snub has minimal chances of expanding a hp in flesh. The 1300+ fps (from a 3" barrel) CorBon 9mm jhp does expand nicely, and it's got 400 ft lbs from the little 9.
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I just looked this book up on Amazon. Did they put a "Fitzed" revolver on the cover to be artsy or is there a reason contained in the book? It certainly doesn't look representative of the short barreled revolver in popular usage.
Hometeached1
Member
Mostly for the looks. Although he does talk about it a little.
Panzerschwein
member
I'm a revolver guy.
Ruger GP-100 .357 magnum, 6" bbl. Ammunition is Double-Tap .357 magnum 125 gr. SJHP loaded in Safariland Comp II speedloaders.
I might have to check this book out. Weather in my pocket or on my hip, it's wheelguns for me. For better or for worse, but I feel just fine with a cylinder full of .357 magnum medicine.
Ruger GP-100 .357 magnum, 6" bbl. Ammunition is Double-Tap .357 magnum 125 gr. SJHP loaded in Safariland Comp II speedloaders.
I might have to check this book out. Weather in my pocket or on my hip, it's wheelguns for me. For better or for worse, but I feel just fine with a cylinder full of .357 magnum medicine.
chupacabrah
Member
I just got a copy of this book last week after seeing this thread-- good reading so far.
just makes me "need" a few more wheelguns
just makes me "need" a few more wheelguns
royal barnes
Member
One of the things that stood out for me was the quote from Bill Jordan who said that off-duty and not able to wear a cover garment he carried an aluminum frame Colt Agent or Smith Airweight and they were "worth their weight in gold". I have found the same to be true. I'm not a fan of small semiautos and a LW .38 special is the gun you can carry when you can't carry a gun. I am old school and the smallest semi I will carry is a Colt New Agent. YMMV.
Once I got a chronograph and started field testing, timing my hits, etc, I no longer wanted to put up my .38 snub's handicaps. (early 80's) I just hotloaded a locked breech 380Star. I got a bit more power, faster repeat hits, and it was considerably more concealable in a front pants pocket holster. I was getting right at 300 ft lbs, which aint too shabby, even if you do have today's pocket 9's.
saltydog452
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Lots of gadgets hanging on to my Bride's Cobra
Birami, Tyler, and a hammer shroud are screwed in or cliped onto my Bride's Cobra. So equiped it is way versitle.
If you're interested in a for true glimpse into the successful efforts of an undercover Ft.Worth LEO into CRIP Drug territory, Tegan Broadwater's book, 'Life In A Fishbowl" is amazing. He went into harm's way for a couple of years armed with a lot of smarts and a .38 in his pocket. Not fodder for a bang-bang shoot 'em up movie, but about 3 dozen drug dealing CRIPS were off the streets.
salty
Birami, Tyler, and a hammer shroud are screwed in or cliped onto my Bride's Cobra. So equiped it is way versitle.
If you're interested in a for true glimpse into the successful efforts of an undercover Ft.Worth LEO into CRIP Drug territory, Tegan Broadwater's book, 'Life In A Fishbowl" is amazing. He went into harm's way for a couple of years armed with a lot of smarts and a .38 in his pocket. Not fodder for a bang-bang shoot 'em up movie, but about 3 dozen drug dealing CRIPS were off the streets.
salty
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