The ultimate Bubba/Redneck "Scout Rifle"?!

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Jim March

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Folks,

As you are no doubt aware, rifles of reasonable accuracy at a reasonable price that can take high-cap (or even 10rd) magazines are difficult to come by.

Esp. if they're relatively cheap.

Remington makes the 7400 autoloader rifle and the 7600 version in pump-action. These are pretty cool and based loosely on the 870 pump shotgun reciever and it's autoloader cousin (I forget what it's called). They have rifle barrels and take magazines. Aftermarket mags of 10rd capacity are quite common in the 308, 30-06 and .223 flavors.

It has recently come to my attention that Remington makes another version of this critter for the "law enforcement" market...but it's legal to sell them to us "commoners" and they show up on Gunsamerica and the like for about $600.

It's called the 7615.

Now what really separated it from the regular "civilian line" 7600 is two things:

1) The 7615 is a .223 only.

2) The 7615 is fully compatible with any magazine that fits an AR15/M16 pattern rifle.

Ohhhh yes, friends, you heard that right.

The damned thing is California legal and can eat out of a BetaC mag :). (OK, NOT in California, true, but still...)

All the various tacticool pieces that fit the 870 shotgun fit this critter. Weaver-rail pump grips for lights. Side-folding stocks. Top-rails for long eye relief scopes. :D BETA C MAGS, did I mention those yet!?

You could build a reasonably accurate high-cap rifle eating a variety of cheap ammo, for cheap. With synthetic furniture you could get the weight down to around 6-7lbs no problem.

And it's California legal. And it gives you the same operating drill/ergos as an 870 shotgun, right down to the safety.

Oh yeah.

Daddy LIKE.

IT'S THE ULTIMATE BUBBA SCOUT RIFLE!

Jeff Cooper wouldn't be at all amused...or hell, I dunno, maybe he would although I don't think I'd take one anywhere near Thunder Ranch...
 
That's a heck of an idea, especially for folks who live just outside the United States and can't own real live semi-autos.

But I'm afraid that the ultimate Bubba scout rifle has done been invented.

It's a lever-action .30-30.

Here in Arkansas, lever-action .30-30s aren't even considered to be really guns. They are more like mandatory pickup truck accessories....sort of like tool boxes or spit cans for Skoal or Red Man.

hillbilly
 
Umm...not especially wishing to rain on anyone's parade, but would the port-side drum on that Beta C-Mag get in the way when racking the action? I know that on the Knoxx drum-magazine shotgun conversions, the drum has to be offset to starboard in order to allow the support arm's forearm to clear it.

Still, 30-rd or even 20-rd detachable-magazine capability is nothing to sneeze at.
 
Jim, Jim, Jim...

hillbilly is correct,
heck-faie - darn 30-30 ctgs done sprout along the roadside and Vending machines give 30-30 ctgs back as change down here.

7615 sounds cool,
but dang son, don't you ever read the Shotgun Forum - ain't supposed to be hanging curb feelers and fuzzy dice until you shoot the durn thing.

Being a Biker I am surprised at you going all tacticool .

If it don't go fast - chrome it.

Virgil Trip fix you right up, get you a nice leather Scabbard ...get chrome buckles and snaps to match your bike.

Need toolin' on that scabbard ...umm

Ride to shoot - shoot to ride

Hey, you are lawyer - protect me on that copyright infringe will ya?

:D


Steve
 
It's actually a matter of wanting a rifle that has ALL that "evil black assault rifle" looks to piss off California law enforcement...yet is a pump :D AND as tough as any mil-spec rifle.

I think an 870 reciever set up to eat 223 is highly likely to qualify in the toughness dept. Bigtime.

The 7400 and 7600 eat the same mags. Here's the 30-06/270/280/7mmExpress version:

http://cdnninvestments.com/30062702807m.html

And (out of stock HERE but commonly available) is the 308/243 version:

http://cdnninvestments.com/rem3010seetm.html

There's some commentary on the 7600 family here:

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1591676&mpage=1

I'm liking what I'm hearing.

----------

As to a Beta C mag: there are various "forearm pistol grips" for the 870 that should fit and would let you clear the magazine. Even without that, being 6'4" I've got long enough arms that I *should* be able to get around the mag if I was ever sick enough to want one on there. In reality a 30rd oughta be enough for any situation and to be honest, if the issue is "mob intimidation" a "banana mag" is more visible at a distance.

Both in see-thru plastic by Eagle.
 
Over double the price. That thing is $1600 loaded, a 7615 is $650. Both take the same mags.

The 7615 runs on mostly 870 parts, 'cept for the barrel, reciever and magazine.

Every report I've seen on the 7600 in various larger calibers says it's an accurate design and ridiculously reliable. The barrel is free-floated, 1.5moa or less is normal. The trigger is kinda "eh" but that can be dealt with pretty cheap.

Again...we're talking about a 12ga shotgun set up for .223. It has GOT to be more or less ridiculously overengineered.
 
Yeah, I'm aware of the Kel-Tec SU. It's a decent gun but...well, there's some issues:

1) I'd be willing to bet good money the 7615 is going to be more reliable. I could be wrong, but...the 870 action is a tough platform to start out on.

Let me digress a sec. The reason we get such reliable guns with the AR15 platform is that we've basically taken a military full-auto (OK, burst, whatever) gun and de-tuned it for semi only. So it's tougher than it needs to be. As long as the platform isn't TOO "match tuned" for tightness/accuracy and quality bits are in there, they'll go through, say, John Farnham's 1,500rds-in-a-3-day-weekend torture test training session without a hitch. The Ruger Mini series on the other hand NOT built to milspec often fails.

I would suspect that 1,500rds in three days would eat an SU alive.

Now I could be wrong, and there may be enraged SU owners about to jump all over me and if that's so, let me know.

But that aside: with the 870 platform set up for .223, we are again taking something stone-axe-strong and running it at less overall stress. Probably to a greater degree than the AR15 platform inherently is. And we're doing it while ditching the gas-tube systems AND recoil springs and running the thing on human power.

There ain't no WAY that sort of thing could possibly be described as "delicate" or "finiky" or whatever.

2) Under California law, the SU in *stock* form is legal ('cept for one folding variant). But guess what? Living in a motorhome, I *like* how the 7615 can take a side-folding or collapsible stock and operate in that condition. I like that a whole lot. And I can't buy an SU that way OR convert it because it's an autoloader.

Being a pump, I can make the 7615 look all kinds of tacticool :D yet remain legal in Kali. And in the case of the side-folder or collapso-stock I can actually get some utility out of the tacticoolness available.
 
Sidenote: I do realize that since most of the 7615s come with 16.5" barrels versus the 18" minimum of the 870, I'd have to make sure that the folding stock combination with the shorter barrel still meets the minimum overall length when folded. It'll be a close thing...but I *think* the reciever plus hinge pin plus 16.5" tube will make the necessary minimum for a rifle...which I *think* is 26"!? Or is it 28?
 
I don't know.

A friend just sporterized a commission rifle. Stripped off the shroud, cut down the barrel, turned down the bolt, shortened the stock and left the barrel free floated. Drilled and tapped for a scope. Stock is painted in a bizarre camo.

It's about as bubba'd as you can get for an 8mm. It's main redemption is if need be it can be shipped to almost any state without an FFL.
 
I thought the 7615P was based on a 20 gauge 870 reciever. Can any one check this? If so, it does limit your options some what in terms of bubba'ing it.
 
Every report I've seen on the 7600 in various larger calibers says it's an accurate design and ridiculously reliable. The barrel is free-floated, 1.5moa or less is normal. The trigger is kinda "eh" but that can be dealt with pretty cheap.
Click to expand...
Do a search here. You'll find a lot of folks who've not had stellar reliability or accuracy out of their 7400 (myself included).

They're hard to clean (since the bolt is hard to drop), they have a pathetic feed ramp setup that precludes the use of OTM or HP rounds (like Barnes), mine was 2MOA at best and usually 3MOA, they have no bolt hold open other than the magazine follower (which also impedes cleaning and clearing malfs since you'll probably drop the magazine to do either), they have very poor aftermarket support (the 10-round Eagle mags, for example, really suck), and in general have a high number of plastic bits that would give me pause as to their suitability for rough use.

"Other than that, Ms. Lincoln, how did you like the play?" :p
 
I am thinking that a 7600 in .308, bbl cut to 18.5" with ghost ring sights and the recover drilled and tapped for a picatinny rail to house a red-dot on low rings would be freakin sweet. If you kept the wood stock and used a conventional looking red dot like a Sightron or one of the other Aimpoints other than the military styled-units this could pull it off looking largely like a regular hunting rifle. Add the 10 round magazines and you have a low key defensive rifle with rock solid reliability, decent rate of fire that's wrapped up in a handy and compact package.

Hmmmm...this idea deserves a little more thought. :)
 
The SU-16 has more to do with an AK or an AR-180 than it does the AR. Mine will eat anything its fed and do so with a smile. Its indeed a very reliable platform, 2 malfs and both were me not seating the mag firmly.
 
I'd have to make sure that the folding stock combination with the shorter barrel still meets the minimum overall length when folded. It'll be a close thing...but I *think* the reciever plus hinge pin plus 16.5" tube will make the necessary minimum for a rifle...which I *think* is 26"!? Or is it 28?
Click to expand...

26", but BATFE measures overall with the stock extended, not folded, so you should clear very nicely.

http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/usr/wbardwel/public/nfalist/nfa_faq.txt

A short barreled rifle is a rifle (which is defined as a shoulder
fired, rifled bore firearm) with a barrel length of less than 16",
or an overall length of less than 26", or any weapon made from a
rifle falling into the same length parameters (like a pistol made
from a rifle). In measuring barrel length you do it from the
closed breech to the muzzle, see 27 CFR sec. 179.11. To measure
overall length do so along, "the distance between the extreme ends
of the weapon measured along a line parallel to the center line of
the bore." 27 CFR sec. 179.11. On a folding stock weapon you
measure with the stock extended, provided the stock is not readily
detachable, and the weapon is meant to be fired from the shoulder.
Click to expand...
 
ever tried to work a pump action from the prone position? yuck... pumps are for shotguns and plinkers, not general purpose rifles.
 
Yes middy, I have, it's a simple exercise of rolling slightly to your strong side and semi-collapsing your strong arm. Not that hard...now a lever action rifle, there's a pain in ther arse prone.
 
Jim,

The action of the 7600 is significantly different from the 870 AFAIK. For example, the 7600 has a rotating bolt while the 870 has a non-rotating bolt with a locking lug that mates with a recess in the receiver.

All I'm saying is don't judge the ruggedness of the 7600 by comparing it with the 870, because one is not merely a rifle version of the other.
 
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