The Ultimate Bug Out...

[Werewolf]

Seems to me that if a family owned 20 to 40 acres, with a 2 to 3 acre stocked pond, a good well, a wind turbine to generate electricity (hooked to a bank of batteries for backup on windless days - rare in OK), a backup diesel generator, a breeding pair of cattle and hogs, some chickens, ducks and maybe a few turkeys and a will to keep 4 or 5 acres planted in vegetables for canning that one could be almost self sufficient.

One would need some money of course to maintain the electric generating equipment along with the well and home. Gotta pay property and all the other BS taxes too I suppose as well as buy medical insurance.

Money could be earned with a high dollar cash crop. In OK for example an acre of wine grapes depending on quality will bring 5000 to 10,000 dollars from OK wineries. My research indicates that it takes about an hour/acre per day to care for grapes.

The cattle could graze on the unused acreage along with the hogs and maybe some goats. The breeding pairs would provide the calfs and hogs for consumption.

Sounds good on paper.

What am I missing?

 

[Pilgrim]

What am I missing?

Serfs?

 

[444]

Sounds like a great plan other than all the hard work to make a minimal income.
Millions of people have survived for many generations on less than what you outline in your post.
As far as a bug out location, it obviously is a hell of a lot better than a backpack or a trailer full of stuff. However, as I love to point out in these SHTF threads: IF something happens at that location that would cause you to bug out from THERE, and it is perfectly possible, just make sure you don't have all your eggs in one basket.

Most of the people on this board don't want to hear this. They believe that certain locations are immune from difficulty. This is no different from the people I work with who believe they live in a "good" neighborhood that is immune from crime and social problems.
Obviously, you can live in a place that is much less prone to having bad things happen, but no place is immune.

 

[R.H. Lee]

Sounds like a lot of work. What upside are you looking for?

 

[Brian Williams]

A local winery and wealthy folks to consume said product

 

[TallPine]

Sounds like a fine plan to me.

Done right (which means no debt for one thing) it would be a protection from economic SHTF (which I think is coming for everyone).

I don't understand why people want to trade work and worry for a bunch of baubles from "stuff-mart" that are worn-out or not interesting after a few days/weeks/months.

I would like to do the same thing here, but it is too dry and cold for much of anything that will work on 40 acres

 

[Werewolf]

Sounds like a lot of work. What upside are you looking for?

For one to get the hell out of the city and away from the madding crowd. For the other - I'm tired of working for others - it's time I worked for myself and my family.

Done right (which means no debt for one thing) it would be a protection from economic SHTF (which I think is coming for everyone).

TallPine gets it.

This is something I've been thinking about for the past 5 years or so. The weather is mild in OK and the growing season runs Mar-Apr to Oct. Finding land in the county (that won't get picked up by a town or city in the foreseeable future) isn't that difficult though the kind'a plot I'd want might be as far as 40 miles from the big city (which I still want access too). My wife's all for it - nags me about it - she's much more adventurous than I.

Got the idea from my son in law about the grapes and he's about to make that action a reality on his 10 acres. The upfront costs are an issue but not insurmountable. I really want to pay off all the costs immediately. My wife says "ef it - finance it - if the SHTF bad enough paying off the mortgage won't be an issue will it? Until then just keep yur job." She's got a point.

She wants to float the idea to our 3 daughters, 2 of which are married and see if any of them would like to participate - one daughter would go for it but probably not her husband - another daughter wouldn't but her husband would and the third daughter - be a waste of time to ask.

Moving out to the country is a no brainer for me. I am going to do it - eventually. Doing it in such a way that I and my family become minimally dependent on society is a big plus.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

I am going to do it - eventually.

We were in the same position 15 years ago. Actually we've always lived in the country but it had been turning into a subdivision for many years. My wife and I dreamed about a place where we could have some land, a place to hunt and shoot, and for me to play with my tractors.

We finally sat down one night and had a real talk:

"Is this a dream or a goal?"

We decided it was a goal, and sent our realtor friend on a quest. After many months of looking at dozens of places, we found our place; 35 acres of river bottom land, a 70 year old farm house with a well, and plenty of peace and quiet. We sold our tri-level on an acre and bought this place in 1994. We've never been happier, this place just feels like home. We were able to get a good price on it since it needs a lot of work, and with the equity in our old (newer) house, we've kept the payments at a reasonable level. In fact, it will be paid off in about five years.

We've built a barn, a second story deck, almost completely remodeled the interior, installed radiant heat and a catalytic wood stove, and have started on a large garage. The original outbuildings had been built in the 1930's with used lumber, and we have torn most of those down, although a couple remain. We still have much to do, in fact it is a lifetime job. We don't borrow money for our projects, we try to do them ourselves with cash on hand, so it goes pretty slow.

We're not off the grid, but we have an 8K gas generator for emergencies. Our heat is propane plus the wood stove.

We don't have paying crops yet, and probably won't until I retire, but then, we aren't forced by a large mortgage to make the place pay its own way. I grow the best slicing tomatoes in the area, but finding a market for them is a different story. Grapes always intrigued me, maybe next spring.

Anyway, my advice to you is to decide if it is a dream or a goal, and if it is a goal, get started now. I just wish we had bought this place many years earlier.

 

[Werewolf]

Anyway, my advice to you is to decide if it is a dream or a goal, and if it is a goal, get started now. I just wish we had bought this place many years earlier.

Excellent advice...

For my wife it's definitely a goal. For me it's also a goal but one a little further down the road.

 

[mr_dove]

This is a way of life for my father. He bought a plot of land and then proceeded to build his own home, plant a good sized garden, raise some small farm animals for eggs, milk, cheese, etc. He is 100% off the grid. He recently got a bit of solar which is mostly for powering a few light bulbs and a small radio.

Him home is heated with wood and he cooks with wood. He is 100% self sufficient, making a bit of extra money by selling surplus items from his garden.

I'll post a few pictures of my fathers homestead here. I'll actually just post links so I don't eat up peoples bandwidth.

http://www.mrdove.net/images/family5.JPG

Building in progress
http://www.mrdove.net/images/family15.jpg

The outside (finished)
http://www.mrdove.net/images/family15.jpg

Some decorations
http://www.mrdove.net/images/family12.JPG

Kitchen area with woodburning cooktop and oven.
http://www.mrdove.net/images/family11.JPG

More kitchen area
http://www.mrdove.net/images/family13.JPG

Living area
http://www.mrdove.net/images/family9.JPG

http://www.mrdove.net/images/family17.JPG

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

For me it's also a goal but one a little further down the road.

Don't wait too long, the sooner the better. I was 45 when we bought this place, now I'm 56. I am still fit enough to do the work, but I can see a day down the road when I won't be able to.

Mr Dove, I envy your father. It takes a strong man (and woman) to try the homesteading way of life these days. We only do it about halfway. Takes a special sort of people, but its a special sort of life too.

 

[Preacherman]

Larry, I wonder if you need a full-time chaplain on that spread of yours? I come cheap...

I've wanted to do something similar for a while, and was planning for some years ahead: but now that I'm permanently disabled to some extent, I'm afraid that those plans are history. I may yet figure something out in the foothills of the Smokies, or something like that, but it won't involve farming activities or anything too strenuous.

 

[EVIL5LITER]

I picked up a 5 acre plot of land in a fairly rural area of the county (FWIW, I'm only 25), and I am currently getting the land ready for house construction that is scheduled to start in Jan.

My plan is that as soon as the house finished, I buy the two plots that are beside it (I think one is 7 acres, the other 8) to try and make the final plot somewhere between 10-20 acres.

 

[Larry Ashcraft]

Peter,

You don't have to ask, you are always welcome.

Lots of non-strenuous activities around here. Sandy's mom passed away last January. She was one of our biggest helpers; making supper, snapping beans, teaching the little boys how things are done, making sure Sandy gets the canning done right... We sure miss her.

Me, I just do the labor, split wood etc. Insurance company says the back porch has to come off and be replaced. Jack hammers cost money. My back and a sledge hammer can get the job done. Done started.

EDIT: evil5liter: congratulations and good luck to you!

 

[Mornard]

Werewolf - do it. do it. do it... Cause then at least someone would be living out my dream. On a practical basis, a couple points (but first, an opinion) I don't see it as lots of work for minimal income, I see it as not needing all the income anyway. I work only to support my bills..

Anyway - on the livestock, you want a breeding triplet, two cows and two sows to one male. To start, one should be of production age, one very young, and no related bloodlines. Don't forget 3-4 rabbits for another easy, tasty healthy meat production.

Don't forget a well-built target range. Stock up on ammo, TPaper, hot chocolate, some good gun magazine subscriptions and heck, you'll never have to leave your place...

 

[mec360]

On this same topic, check out the various offerings from Backwoods Home magazine:

http://backwoodshome.com/

It's sort of a libertarian "Mother Earth News," written by people who have been there and are doing that.

OB gun content: Massad Ayoob writes a gun column for them.

 

[Werewolf]

you want a breeding triplet,

That makes excellent sense. Maybe I ought to go back to college and take a few agricultural courses...

On this same topic, check out the various offerings from Backwoods Home magazine

Thanks for the URL - looked it over -good stuff - book marked.

 

[ReadyontheRight]

what keeps someone from killing you and taking all of that?

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It sounds to me like a very easy to detect and tempting target for millions of desperate people to want. How will you guard all of that? How can you garden and tend livestock, when the woods are full of desperate (and autorifle-armed) men?

Well -- Here in Minnesota, we make sure the woods get down to -20 a few weeks every year.

Not as many crops, but it keeps out the riff-raff.

And if S truly hit the F, such a location could probably support some troops on the side of the good guys to protect the property.

Probably not a lot of danger of invasion in these golden days that will hopefully never end with our SHTF scenarios.

The original post sounds like a great idea and a very good life. One that millions have dreamed of over the past couple thousand years. Go for it!

Before electricity, natural gas, mortgages, insurance, credit cards, ISP charges and cable bills, you would have only needed enough income to cover the taxes.

Of course you would have been chopping wood all the time and probably burning manure to keep warm.

 

[mr.trooper]

Serfs?

No problem. Once the SHTF, and everyone has grabed their BOBS and ran to their BOLS in their BOVS, and the TEOTWAWKI has hit, you can raid neiboring hamlets and use them as conscripts.

Thats if they dont come running to you willingly.

 

[RiverwinoIA]

mr. dove,
i can almost smell the reefer permeating from those pictures...
i bet yer dad has a very interesting garden

 

[Kobun]

Plant a few acers of rape and you will have more rape-oil than you need. (Its BIO DIESEL!)
Then you will be truly self sufficient.

 

[enfield]

Check out an older book titled "Five Acres and Independence".

 

[dmftoy1]

What states don't have property taxes? I"d love to be self-sufficient here in Illinois, but my property taxes on 12 acres of land is close to $800 a month . . that's a pretty good chunk that I have to cover or they take it away from me.

Just curious what states there are that don't have property taxes. I think I heard Texas doesn't, but I'm not sure.

 

[Podster]

property taxes in TEXAS?

Texas has no state income tax, of course we have property taxes. How else could the politicians steal money from the public....

 

[Werewolf]

here in Illinois, but my property taxes on 12 acres of land is close to $800 a month

Close yur ears oh people with sensitivities but I just gotta say it...

JEEEEZUS H KRIIIIISTE!

$800 a month for 12 acres. Where are they in the middle of Chicago?

Hells Bells - my daughter and son in law don't pay that much a year on 10 acres in Oklahoma City zoned agricultural and that covers the greedy bastids at the city, county and state level.

$800/month! I think I'd move.