Bugging out and towing things

[Sam]

If yuo do use a trailer to bug out you must remember to do a tactical load on the off chance that you have to leave it behind.
What that means is the things you need to have must be in the tow vehicle. The trailer should contain teh nice to haves. At the very least split the necessities in half and put half in each.
Not efficient at all but having the necessities is very important and crap does happen. You might wreck the thing or burn out a bearing and not have a spare. Prepeare for the worst and smile when it works out better than the plan.
Sam

 

[Aguila Blanca]

Yes, those Harbor Freight trailers do look interesting... here's one for under $250 with a capacity of over half a ton. That's good value, and it folds up for easy storage, too.

That's the one I have, except that one has the 12" wheels. When I bought mine, 12" wheels were not available and the only choice was 8" wheels. There were two sizes: 4' x 8', and 40" x 4'. I used 3/4" plywood for the floor, non-pressure treated, but I gave it a few coats of varnish before laying it down. The deck is in sad shape now, but it's almost 15 years old and has been stored outdoors for the past 8 years or so. It doesn't owe me anything.

But I do look with envy at those shiny white, enclosed box trailers parked out beside Lowe's ...

 

[444]

Diesel Fuel vs. Water
I mentioned that I would like to have a 100 gal. fuel tank installed on my truck. This in no way prevents me from carrying an equal amount of water although I seriously doubt I would carry 100 gallons of water.

Off road. This doesn't nessessarily mean climbing up the side of a mountain. Most of the off road driving I do around here is pretty tame. You need the ground clearance, but it isn't too extreme.
I don't know the actual names of these military trailers but I remember our ammo section had trailers that they towed behind a five ton that looked like you could put another couple tons in the trailer. Those trailers might even be too big to pull behind a pickup, but my mind may be playing tricks on me since I am thinking back about 20 years.

Sam, IMO it is important to have "layers" of equipment.
Stuff you always carry with you.
BOB and gear you might have on your person if TSHTF like a vest or web gear or whatever.
Then there is the stuff you have in your vehicle.
The trialer would be the final load of stuff.
If you lose the trailer, you still have the basics for a week.

 

[Sam]

The pickup capable trailer was the M101. rated at a 1/2 ton and desigend to be pulleed by a jeep. There is also an M104 for use behind a PU 3/4 ton. They go all the way to the M110 which is a 5 ton trailer chassis for mounting generators and stuff.

Sam

 

[Thin Black Line]

In our desert combat zone, we typically had equal, if not more, water
to fuel on our site. Unless you're using the fuel to power a deep well
pump, I can't fathom why someone would have 100 gals of diesel and
far less than that of water in the desert.

If you live in certain parts of the US where lakes/ponds/streams are literally
a couple miles apart, you can pretty much carry a water purifier with you
and fill as you go. MI, WI, MN, etc quickly come to mind. However, maybe
this is also true of northern NV.....as long as you're not taking water from
contaminated groundwater from all those old mines.....

 

[444]

"I can't fathom why someone would have 100 gals of diesel and
far less than that of water in the desert."

I am not in a desert combat zone: I am an American civilian who can go wherever he wants. A 100 gallon fuel tank in addition to the factory tank would give me a cruising range in excess of 1500 miles. Think I might be able to find a water source within that radius ?
Along the same line of thinking, there is a limit to how much stuff you can carry. There is a limit to how much stuff you can have ready to go at a moment's notice. There is also a limit on how long you can survive with ONLY the stuff you are carrying with you.
Keeping the fuel tank(s) topped off on my pickup truck as often as I can is pretty easy to do. The fuel isn't going to go bad since I drive the truck on a regular basis. The fuel also isn't something that is taking up a lot of room and it isn't inconvienient to carry.
Most of the people that participate in these SHTF discussions assume you have the time and resources to get together exactly what you had imagined in your mind. For example, I live in a city that is frequently mentioned as a possible target for terrorism. Let's say that one day the windows of my home rattle, I look out and see a mushroom cloud forming over town. I flip on the radio or TV and find out that a small nuke device was detonated by terrorists. I am instantly going to leave town. I am not going to stand around while I fill containers with 100 gallons of water. I am not going to assume that I have the time to do that, I am not going to assume that when I NEED water that the city water supply is going to be there and functioning for me to get it. I am also not going to keep 100 gallons of water stored in case something like this happens. Obviously, things might not go as I imagined them in my mind. We all have some kind of senario we envision and it is hard to believe that things might not go that way. But, for purposes of this discussion, I have to assume that I have my truck and am mobile. If things don't go that way, then I couldn't haul around 100 gallons of water anyway. If things do go that way, I can drive around far enough, and long enough to find a source of water. I have more than one, high end water filter that I have actually used in the past on fishing trips to the Canadian bush.
This of course leaves out the fact that I am single and don't even own a dog anymore. Why do I need to carry around a three month supply of water instead of fuel ?????
On the other hand, 100 gallons of fuel in my truck is no big deal.

 

[brerrabbit]

I am personally not in a situation I would ever bug out from, rural Oklahoma with adequate supplies of food,water livestock, and ammo.

Just my 2 cents. The harbor freight trailors are junk. For about 750$ out here you can buy a new 5X12 tilt trailor with a single 2000 pound axle, or around 300$ to 400$ used. As long as you load out good, the trailer will ride very nicely. I use mine on the farm, If I can get my ford ranger over an obstacle, I generally wont have a problem with the trailor.

The deck on it is made of 2X8 lumber that is bolted in place, unlike the harbor freight models which use a piece of plywood you supply. Mine uses a 2 inch ball hitch, which every one out here uses. The harbor freights use a 1 7/8 ball, If you break down or need someone else to pull your trailor, your out of luck. My trailor runs on 14 inch tires, I forget the size, but I can get a replacement tire at almost any tire shop.

The harbor freight leaf springs and the neck leave a bit to be desired. IMHO the whole thing is underbuilt, even for the rated loads.

I think you would be a little better off buying a new or even a used tilt trailor vice one of those toys from harbor freight or walmart. Much better value for the money.

 

[rmgill]

I always imagined that the ultimate SHTF set-up for me would be to have a military surplus trailer. The ones with huge ground clearance and leaf springs: a trailer specifically designed for towing big loads off-road. I would then build some kind of box that fits inside the trailer so that the trailer was divided and organized, so all my gear wasn't just thrown in a pile. With this box, if need be, I could take it out and then use the trailer to haul something else.

Yep, look for an M100 or M101 Trailer. you can get them with Surge brakes. Your only issue is changing the electrics to handle the 12 volt loads of lights and signals. The M100(1/4 ton) is jeep sized. The M101 (3/4 ton) is M37/Pickup sized. Don't get the M105, that's 1.5 ton and designed for being towed behind the M35s. It has air over hydraulic brakes.

Unlike Military trucks, you don't double off road capacities to get on road capacities.

 

[rmgill]

The pickup capable trailer was the M101. rated at a 1/2 ton and desigend to be pulleed by a jeep. There is also an M104 for use behind a PU 3/4 ton. They go all the way to the M110 which is a 5 ton trailer chassis for mounting generators and stuff.

Sam

Sam, the M100 is jeep sized and is a 1/4 ton capacity. The M101 is 3/4 ton and M37 sized. It would go just dandy behind a 1 ton pickup with a pintle hook (get a swivel type if you can). M104s and M105s have air over hydraulic brakes. Not as easy to reconfigure for a civilian truck.

 

[444]

"I am personally not in a situation I would ever bug out from,...."

Prime example of what I am talking about. You envision ONE senario and can't imagine that something could happen to change your perception. Unfortunately, putting all your eggs in one basket is, and always have been a mistake.

 

[brerrabbit]

444

Most of you guys have ideas about bugging out to a place. I'm already there. If the SHTF, I'm bugging in.

I am not putting all my eggs in one basket, I just made sure I had one of the best baskets in the first place.

 

[Bubbles]

Don't get the M105, that's 1.5 ton and designed for being towed behind the M35s. It has air over hydraulic brakes.

Unless, of course, you just happen to own an M35...

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmgill
Don't get the M105, that's 1.5 ton and designed for being towed behind the M35s. It has air over hydraulic brakes.

Bubbles:
Unless, of course, you just happen to own an M35...

Now you've gone and done it. Now I want one, and a trailer, too.

 

[Lawyerman]

Heres a great military trailer conversion!

http://www.alpharubicon.com/bovstuff/garrybot.htm


This is a great trailer. If I did not own an Airstream I would have one of these. A buddy of mine has built a similar unit and loves it.

 

[Thin Black Line]

444

Most of you guys have ideas about bugging out to a place. I'm already there. If the SHTF, I'm bugging in.

I am not putting all my eggs in one basket, I just made sure I had one of the best baskets in the first place.

Good strategy. A lot of people are stuck in condos and apartments and
do make plans for the worst case scenario where they have to leave.
The "place" to bug out to becomes very important. A lot of people have
a relative or friend's home in mind, and hopefully this has been discussed
in advance. In fact, it would be more prudent to pre-position supplies
at such a location rather than risk hauling it around. I can only imagine
a trailer fully loaded with supplies (not to mention gallons of fuel) and
then the vehicle or trailer breaking down. (Multiple flat tires come to
mind due to sabotage on the road).

I know there are people whose survival "plan" is to bug out to some remote
location (maybe a hunting spot or some vast amount of wilderness land)
where there is very little infrastructure in place. I've talked with a few
people over the years whose "plan" involved squatting in a State or
Federal Park. This could work for a short term disaster, but it's not a
long term plan. They would need to be able to go back to their homes
with a functioning economic infrastructure or find a new place with
other people which they could join.

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Practicality

My bug-out vehicle is long term livable and tows a 1 car 2 motorcycle garage but reservations do need to be made.

So, for me, it's probably better to just bug-in if I'm parked at home.

Specs:
230+ gallons diesel
160 gallons of fresh water
20KW generator
2.5KW invertor
2KW invertor in trailer w/full 110 system
Length overall 75 feet
And lotsa room for firearms.

 

[Father Knows Best]

Dang! Nice rig there, Overby.

I'm still kind of hung up on the issue of offroad capability, though. In the various bugout scenarios I can envision, I don't think I'd want to be limited to on-pavement travel, especially since I expect the pavement to be either impassable in places or choked with others in on-road only vehicles.

The guy with the M35 has me thinking. They're reasonably cheap to buy, and certainly off-road capable (6 wheel drive and many have winches!). They've got plenty of cargo capability. Has anyone ever put an enclosed box on one of those things? Wouldn't an M35 "Class C" conversion be the ultimate offroad motorhome?

 

[Otherguy Overby]

Dang! Nice rig there, Overby.

Thanks, I tend to forget the KISS method but it has been a long time dream of mine.

I'm still kind of hung up on the issue of offroad capability, though. In the various bugout scenarios I can envision, I don't think I'd want to be limited to on-pavement travel, especially since I expect the pavement to be either impassable in places or choked with others in on-road only vehicles.

Here's the problem: Ground clearance. You've got to have a place for say 100 gallons of fresh water, 100 gallons of grey/black water, fuel for the house (maybe propane), batteries, generator and other stuff. Of course all this is heavy and needs to be mounted low...

The guy with the M35 has me thinking. They're reasonably cheap to buy, and certainly off-road capable (6 wheel drive and many have winches!). They've got plenty of cargo capability. Has anyone ever put an enclosed box on one of those things? Wouldn't an M35 "Class C" conversion be the ultimate offroad motorhome?

Drive one here:
http://www.kingsleycoach.com/

But don't forget the KISS method. If you do forget, bring lotsa money.

 

[mole]

2 suggestions:

I know two different people who have bought school buses and refurnished them to how they like. My father has obtained one, but currently only uses it for storage---one stored item is a rebuilt motor and transmission for the bus. They are pleased with their "driving campers" which have good ground clearance and often times easier to repair. Added insulation is a must. You can get a full sized or a short bus.

Look for a used horse trailer. They will already have a roof and walls and be rated to carry a heavy load. They may need a little extra cleaning, but we're talking budget here. Heck if you can throw in a horse you've got your own off road vehicle.

mole

 

[Father Knows Best]

Here's the problem: Ground clearance. You've got to have a place for say 100 gallons of fresh water, 100 gallons of grey/black water, fuel for the house (maybe propane), batteries, generator and other stuff. Of course all this is heavy and needs to be mounted low...

Drive one here:
http://www.kingsleycoach.com/

But don't forget the KISS method. If you do forget, bring lotsa money.

I wasn't thinking of a full-blown motorhome conversion with all the bells and whistles. I was thinking more along the lines of replacing the bed of a standard M35 with a hard-sided/roofed cargo box. If you insulate it and put in a window (or skylight) or two, you could use it as an emergency shelter, and it would be capable of transporting you and your family and a ton (literally!) or two of stuff to wherever you needed to go. Hook up one of those M105 (or whatever) trailers, and you've got another ton of stuff that isn't in the way of the family.

Of course, you could accomplish much of the same result cheaper and easier with a standard canvas-top M35, I guess, but it wouldn't be anywhere near as secure or comfortable.

 

[Bob41081]

Having been in the evacutaion of Houston for Rita my feeling is trailers should be banned in a evacuation . If you can't get it in the vehicle it dosen't need to be on the road. While I realize boats and ATVs are expensive if all those trailers weren't on the road traffic could have move easier and faster if the space occupied by trailers had cars in them. I saw one extended family if 4 cars with 2 people per car. Take 2 of those cars off the road and you save that much gas. I realize that people don't want to lose material things-- I took the time to pack all my guns. I'd have been on the road 3 or 4 hrs earlier and missed alot of the backup had I left then. I left behind gas and water to make the car more comfortable for my dogs. Now I knew where I was going and know it only takes 1/2 a tank to get there so I was safe. Take food water and people not possesions. People need to think of the overall situation not just their personal one. That is a big part of the problem with our society today,ME! ME!, to heck with everyone else.

Sorry Rant mode off.

Bob

 

[benEzra]

Our short-wheelbase minivan and small trailer are shorter overall than even a small RV, and not all that much longer than a full-size Suburban. Once you factor in following distance, a passenger vehicle and small trailer don't take up that much more road space.

The big issue for me would be, our van has a relatively short fuel range (fuel tank is too small). Had we been in the Rita evac WITHOUT a trailer carrying some extra fuel, we'd have run out of gas and been tying up traffic a lot more than an extra few feet of trailer would have.

A lot of people in the Rita evac apparently thought they had enough fuel, but spent more time idling/crawling than they expected and ran out of fuel.

The ideal thing to do, of course, would be to get out early when traffic isn't clogged, if at all possible, and then your van/trailer or your two cars aren't clogging up anything.

 

[NMshooter]

A 2 1/2 or 5 ton truck with the commo shelter on the back should provide more than enough room for a family of four with supplies.

The insulation should make it tolerable, but it will get hot in summer and cold in winter.

 

[Sam]

One of my troops from Hill built a motorhome on an M35.
Setup for only 2 but a great machine.

BTW if you do buy a Deuce get the normally aspirated version the M35 as opposed to the 35A2. It is quieter, more powerful and more fuel efficient.

A good place I used to deal with for M series parts and whole vehicles is:
http://www.boyceequipment.com/ They were fair priced and competant.

Sam

 

[TallPine]

I think our VFD has a M35 ...

10 wheel (duals on the rear drivers), 6 cyl inline Mercedes diesel, and a 5 speed manual transmission (4th and 5th gear are swapped from the normal positions on the shift lever - I think this might be to allow for 3 people to ride more comfortably when running in 5th gear, as then the lever is up towards the dashboard).

Any rate, a really cool truck - I'd like to get one myself for hauling firewood, etc