The unsupported standing position

[D.B. Cooper]

...The problem is you only have a second or so to hold the rifle steady before your tense muscles begin to fail and the rifle starts to wobble in your hands...

That's a physical fitness issue-one of which I'm guilty myself. There will always be limits, of course, but if you can't hold your rifle steady for more than 1-2 seconds, you need to be working on your upper body strength.

The standing/off hand position for NRA High Power is 20 rounds fired in 20 minutes. Loaded singly. So a competitor is basically holding his rifle on target for as long as necessary 20 times/once per minute. The difference between a good shot and a bad shot in that game is the willingness to reset and start over when needed. Applied to hunting: you should be able to hold your rifle long enough to not have to rush the shot.

 

[Vern Humphrey]

I've always shot as much offhand as I can on the theory that if you shoot well offhand, you can shoot well in any position. I won the 1962 Oklahoma Small Bore Collegiate championship with my offhand score. My favorite practice exercise is 50 shots on the 11-bull NRA 50 foot target. I use half the target per session, placing 10 shots in each of the 5 selected bulls, working the bolt from the shoulder. I've shot running deer and elk with this being the basis of my practice.

 

[Electrod47]

Quote: "In shooting standing, or offhand, whichever you may call it, I like to use the hasty sling adjusted tight and I do better with it than without the support."

That's the only way it should be attempted on game.

 

[Chuck R.]

Quote: "In shooting standing, or offhand, whichever you may call it, I like to use the hasty sling adjusted tight and I do better with it than without the support."

That's the only way it should be attempted on game.

I'm always wary of "absolutes", until I've tried it a few times myself.

There are places and conditions where slinging up isn't feasible and not shooting at running deer means going home with nothing. IF you're doing drives, either driving or on stand, chances are the deer you see will be moving. If your one of the guys busting brush, odds are IF you get a shot it will be a snap shot at a deer you jumped or one of the other drivers did. By the time you "sling up" in heavy cover, there won't be a deer to shoot at. Moving through chit like that I'm often switching the rifle from hand to hand as I clear obstacles, move branches etc. staying in a sling while moving isn't practical.

Like a couple of the other guys said, there's terrain and cover where I'm taking the sling off, or adjusting tight so it doesn't snag on stuff. As I said in my 1st post, I practice it, have all quick adjust slings on my hunting rigs, but I've yet to shoot anything slung up.

 

[Old Hobo]

Rifle slings are core-critical to accurate shooting. For hunting, the rapid adjustable sling is the way to go. Old military slings do NOT afford one rapid length adjustment.

I was on my high school rifle team and a retired battalion Sgt.Major burned proper shooting techniques into our young brains.

I highly recommend that people get proper training in the use of a sling.

I'm gonna put some links in here; but hey, don't take them as gospel. Do your own research. See what works for you. Same thing with adjustable slings, I'm not gonna tell anyone what's best for them. I have permanent damage to my left arm's ulner nerve due to years of sling usage. I tied too tight. Don't do that. Right now, my left little finger and the finger next to it are tingling. The tinnitus in my left ear is ringing-away -- use your ear protection.

Practice practice practice -- I can wrap my sling around my left arm in less than a second and bring my weapon into shooting position. It is burned in my brain ... muscle memory ... hard-wired. My need-to-use rifles (the non-collectors) have instantly-adjustable slings -- for prone, kneeling, standing, leaning against a tree, ..., whatever the need at the moment. Practice practice practice. I'm old, have nerve damage due to shooting, so it goes.



I'm NOT keen on the following video, but hey, I ain't no shooting god:



This is more my style. I like this video the most. Am I biased? I sure am!



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"Single-point Tactical" is in part two of the following video:




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[lysanderxiii]

The other night, while watching Bastonge footage, I saw GIs shoot, not hurried, not from cover, standing unsupported and the M1 without a sling.

IIRC, most real WW2 combat footage, I see the rifles without slings. Before contact or expecting contact did the GI remove his sling?

My XM177 "Commando" (what'a dumb name!) always had the butt collapsed and carried it low across upper belly with a sling across my back, over my left shoulder to the front "swivel" with a 1/4 turn; I could control it with one hand. Granted, I never needed it at long range, but could if needed.

Any other position than standing is already supported and presupppses the shooter has time to sling up for even better support.

Competitively, I understand the "standing position" originated from military necessity, and the need to snap shoot unsupported while moving.

In shooting standing, or offhand, whichever you may call it, I like to use the hasty sling adjusted tight and I do better with it than without the support.

I don't hunt anymore, but do any of you hunters use standing sling support?

I would argue that the sling is almost always seen attached the the weapon in pictures of US infantrymen in WW2. You are going to have the show me a picture of a sling-less rifle in combat . . .

 

[Picher]

The other night, while watching Bastonge footage, I saw GIs shoot, not hurried, not from cover, standing unsupported and the M1 without a sling.

IIRC, most real WW2 combat footage, I see the rifles without slings. Before contact or expecting contact did the GI remove his sling?

My XM177 "Commando" (what'a dumb name!) always had the butt collapsed and carried it low across upper belly with a sling across my back, over my left shoulder to the front "swivel" with a 1/4 turn; I could control it with one hand. Granted, I never needed it at long range, but could if needed.

Any other position than standing is already supported and presupppses the shooter has time to sling up for even better support.

Competitively, I understand the "standing position" originated from military necessity, and the need to snap shoot unsupported while moving.

In shooting standing, or offhand, whichever you may call it, I like to use the hasty sling adjusted tight and I do better with it than without the support.

I don't hunt anymore, but do any of you hunters use standing sling support?

 

[jmr40]

Remember; covering fire was a common technique. Some soldiers fired in the general direction of the enemy in order force them to keep their heads down while other soldiers maneuvered into a better position. Precision aiming at an individual enemy soldier was not the goal. But when precision was needed use of a sling or other supported position was utilized whenever possible.

 

[stillquietvoice]

That's a physical fitness issue-one of which I'm guilty myself. There will always be limits, of course, but if you can't hold your rifle steady for more than 1-2 seconds, you need to be working on your upper body strength.

Not just strength, but fine muscle control. You could be strong as an ox and not be able to hold steady if you don't condition the muscle yo holding an object still.

 

[Varminterror]

Bones hold rifles, muscles make rifles wobble.

More time spent practicing stacking bones is more fruitful for marksmanship than time spent stacking weight plates in the gym.

 

[AK Hunter]

No I hunt in the woods & there are too many small trees around to risk an unsupported shot.

 

[12Bravo20]

When it comes to combat shooting, the sling is usually just to hold the weapon. I don't know of anyone that used a sling to stabilize their weapon for a long range, standing unsupported shot at a combatant. But then again that is taught more in the USMC than Army. The way my sling was setup was so I could transition to my pistol (I had one most of my enlistment) or free both hands for something else by putting the weapon to my side or back pretty quickly and retrieving it the same. In WWII advanced materials, swivels, and mounts were not even thought of yet. And a simple cotton sling between two fixed points hindered more than it helped in the field.

That has been my experiences too. Having the sling across my back and over one shoulder makes it quick and easy to swing the rifle out of the way. And shooting long guns left handed and pistols right handed made the transition very quick for me.

The only time I actually used a sling to shoot was with the MP5 pistol and M3A1. We would push out against the straps to help stabilize sub guns.

I have used the unsupported standing position a few times while hunting in thick woods. In that type on environment/situation, you don't always get a chance to for any other position. But in those situations, shots are normally at 75 yards or less.