the value of kubatons
- Thread starter Jake38
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sparkyv
Member
When I travel for work, I cannot carry my CCW, so I take a kubaton, the type with a writing pen in it, and it is OK with the TSA to carry on the plane. I have to say that if I need to use it, I'm probably already in a world of hurt! I pray I never do. I'd have trouble carrying the one you made, Jake38.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Research the web several Police officers have books and video 's on how to use them.
Never saw one like that.
I select flashlights that serve a dual purpose as well as pens and markers since I have uses for each on a day to day basis.
I select flashlights that serve a dual purpose as well as pens and markers since I have uses for each on a day to day basis.
kBob
Member
Ayoob used to think they were useful and taught using a miniMag flashlight as one in his LFI-1 class as an alternative to deadly force......took me over a week to recover from the bruising on my left wrist.
-kBob
-kBob
The yellow parts of this weapon can be used to help restrain violent individuals. This can be done by catching one of the arms of a threat between the two yellow parts and then pushing upward while slightly twisting it. I think that asset of this weapon, along with the versatility of it and it's ability to block strikes, may make it particularly useful for jail and prison officers.
ColtPythonElite
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That is not what I picture when I think of a Kuboton. I think of one of the straight key chain looking things that seemed to be all the rage 25+ years ago.
Deltaboy1984
Member
I have Mas book on Police less than lethal things like Jack's Slaps, night sticks and those mini mag light!
JeeperCreeper
Member
Are you trained in it? I feel like it'd be pretty tough to implement without lots of training time.
If you aren't, I'd think there are simpler options... basically anything that can be used as a bludgeon. Kinda like the difference between a machete and a katana. If you don't know how to use a katana, grab the machete.
If you aren't, I'd think there are simpler options... basically anything that can be used as a bludgeon. Kinda like the difference between a machete and a katana. If you don't know how to use a katana, grab the machete.
ANY restraining technique requires training. That training needs to be with an uncooperative partner instead of the McDojo type "training" with willing partners that don't evade and resist.
The fact that you don't see this in corrections facilities is an indication that they don't consider it useful.
For the real world a simple flashlight or large pen/marker will be more practical since you can carry it every day without drawing any attention. Train with it and carry it.
JeeperCreeper
Member
You can turn it in to a slingshot, worse comes to worst
kBob
Member
The problem with all this is ....a dedicated kubaton is a weapon. Period.
Are you more likely to have occasion to save yourself with a kubaton OR get arrested for having it?
A little two cell AA metal flash light is a flashlight.
Will that wad of tape work any better than a Mini Mag or same same Stream lite? Will the flashlight get you arrested?
I have met two folks that got convicted of felonies for simply having striking weapons. One had a "tire thumper" like you can buy in any truck stop on the rear drivers side floor of his car at a gas station and had it seen by an LEO and another got stopped for less than 15 MPH over the limit speeding and had a thing on his key chain that one could buy from magazine ads at the time. I thought both convictions were wrong......but the courts did not think so.
When Officer Not So Friendly decides your Kubaton is a weapon he will decide if you need arresting. If he does so, you will be arrested, you will be chained, you will be confined. At some point in the future a judge and possibly jury will decide if the Officer was correct or not. They just may well decide against you as well.
If you get arrested for having a plane jane flashlight (no "fighting bezel" or obvious points).......I will be surprised and you should still not resist the arresting officer, but consider how that is likely to look to a jury.
-kBob
Are you more likely to have occasion to save yourself with a kubaton OR get arrested for having it?
A little two cell AA metal flash light is a flashlight.
Will that wad of tape work any better than a Mini Mag or same same Stream lite? Will the flashlight get you arrested?
I have met two folks that got convicted of felonies for simply having striking weapons. One had a "tire thumper" like you can buy in any truck stop on the rear drivers side floor of his car at a gas station and had it seen by an LEO and another got stopped for less than 15 MPH over the limit speeding and had a thing on his key chain that one could buy from magazine ads at the time. I thought both convictions were wrong......but the courts did not think so.
When Officer Not So Friendly decides your Kubaton is a weapon he will decide if you need arresting. If he does so, you will be arrested, you will be chained, you will be confined. At some point in the future a judge and possibly jury will decide if the Officer was correct or not. They just may well decide against you as well.
If you get arrested for having a plane jane flashlight (no "fighting bezel" or obvious points).......I will be surprised and you should still not resist the arresting officer, but consider how that is likely to look to a jury.
-kBob
I wouldn't carry it if I didn't have a concealed weapons permit.
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While in FL that might work, but outside of FL where the permits are for handgun or firearms, the broader weapons permit narrows to that state's rules.
Still, a flashlight of the correct size and shape can be preferable since it serves to make light of darkness.
Keep the ideas coming. We may not consider them preferable to the flashlight, but thinking about defensive tools and kicking the ideas back and forth is always good.
Deltaboy1984
Member
Great ideas and MA book says get a nice leather key holder and load it up with Old keys to use a flail!
Ideas like that highlight the way in which the simplest objects and materials can be used to create excellent weapons. It only took two rolls of tape for me to create a kubaton that is hard as a rock.
I like flexibles- I have carried a paracord lanyard with sturdy small flashlight (or heavy wad of keys) on one end, and a heavy carabiner on the other on both continental and overseas flights on numerous occasions- but flails are useless for defense.
As others have said, it's a much better idea to have a common item that's frequently useful, that makes a good expedient weapon, than it is to devise something that can only be a weapon. A full 16 oz water bottle, sold everywhere for pennies if you get a large pack of them, can be used to deliver an instantly debilitating blow. It's not inherently a weapon, it's a water bottle- and, we need water every day. What good is your wad of tape? You have spent at least a few bucks on something that looks like an attempt to make a weapon.
John
Jerseykris
Member
I bought my first Kubaton keychain around 25+ years ago when they were all the rage (or at least I was told they were all the rage, so of course I bought one. Great marketing ploy, eh)
Never once had to use it. I carry it less and less as the years go by and now favor a flashlight and/or tactical pens.
Depending on the state you live in, I'd have to echo others here that carrying an improvised one is probably a bad idea (from a legal and liability standpoint) regardless of how cool or effective your creation might be.
Never once had to use it. I carry it less and less as the years go by and now favor a flashlight and/or tactical pens.
Depending on the state you live in, I'd have to echo others here that carrying an improvised one is probably a bad idea (from a legal and liability standpoint) regardless of how cool or effective your creation might be.
I live in Florida. Rather than merely permitting the carrying of handguns, FL concealed carry permits permit the carrying of various concealable deadly weapons. I've just been experimenting with different materials. I always carry this strong pen while I am in public.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0700-0799/0790/0790.html
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It's good to both know the law, and understand how you're likely to be viewed if you interact with LEO. If you're carrying something that looks like it was made in jail- and it does- don't expect a positive reception from LEO.
ClickClickD'oh
Member
Dear sir, I believe your PR-24 has gone flaccid... then someone painted it in the colors of the Brazilian flag.
Overall, I'm not a super big fan of batons and like objects. Oh sure, I wear one all day and they have their place, which is a lot more limited than people think. Dirty secret, a batons primary purposes are actually in this order 1) scratching under body armor, 2) freeing up the bag of chips that hung up in the vending machine, 3) getting that thing off the bottom of your boot... you know, the one that is wedged in the tread and clicks when you walk on hard floors. A baton, when used properly by a well trained individual (this doesn't mean you watched a video on youtube and bat up your couch cushion) can be an invaluable tool for helping subdue a non compliant individual, but what then? Unless you are carrying around some restraints, you are eventually going to have to do something with the guy you have been using fancy baton locks on. "See, now you can't move your arm" isn't actually an end game solution. It's a stalemate.
Then again, if your whole goal wasn't to detain the guy with the least amount of injury inflicted, but to hurt people and break things until they stop fighting, there are much better options than a baton.
TLDR version: If your goal is to get a jerk organized so you can cuff him, baton good. If your goal is to get an attacker the heck away from you, baton not so good... unless you are ninja skilled, in which case, still better options.
Overall, I'm not a super big fan of batons and like objects. Oh sure, I wear one all day and they have their place, which is a lot more limited than people think. Dirty secret, a batons primary purposes are actually in this order 1) scratching under body armor, 2) freeing up the bag of chips that hung up in the vending machine, 3) getting that thing off the bottom of your boot... you know, the one that is wedged in the tread and clicks when you walk on hard floors. A baton, when used properly by a well trained individual (this doesn't mean you watched a video on youtube and bat up your couch cushion) can be an invaluable tool for helping subdue a non compliant individual, but what then? Unless you are carrying around some restraints, you are eventually going to have to do something with the guy you have been using fancy baton locks on. "See, now you can't move your arm" isn't actually an end game solution. It's a stalemate.
Then again, if your whole goal wasn't to detain the guy with the least amount of injury inflicted, but to hurt people and break things until they stop fighting, there are much better options than a baton.
TLDR version: If your goal is to get a jerk organized so you can cuff him, baton good. If your goal is to get an attacker the heck away from you, baton not so good... unless you are ninja skilled, in which case, still better options.
Now that you mention it, it does look like a weapon that was made in jail. When it comes to kubatons, I am just going to carry the pen like I always have. It will get the job done if necessary.
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