they got some nice hogs over in Hungary with pure Russian boar variety.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pslzMze9rNk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pslzMze9rNk&feature=related
These European hunters can shoot.
- Thread starter nathan
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Europeans don’t shoot better or worst than everybody else. Keep in mind that in these videos, made during driven hunts, usually show more good shots than bad shots. As we say around here: the room for missing is a lot bigger than the spot to hit, lololol.
Sometimes we count more than 100 or 150 shots during a driven hunt and at the end we got 6, 7 or 10 boars dead. Most pigs escape, lol. To get more and larger boars, in some areas hunters organizations (who organize driven hunts) limit or ban hunting during several months or even years, but you can only do that in forest areas, not if there are any agricultural fields near by (or they will destroy everything and you will get problems with land owners). Yes, most driven hunts take place in private lands (not own by the state) because in many Europeans countries (like Portugal) property is very fragmented (very, very small bits of land). Usually hunters associate themselves in small local organizations and without opposition of landowners mark a territory of several hundred acres around the villages (obviously the state demands a tax). I’m one of those hunters and our territory is about 15.000 acres (6.000 hectares) – we are about 60 hunters in our assotiation, but many are very old and only hunt rabbits, doves and partridges. My family has some small bits of land in there also, but the total number of landowners is probably larger than 10.000, lol (some bits of land have unknown owners). The property is so fragmented that rural land owners don’t care about hunters (some live in the cities, far away, others are very old).
On January 16th we organized a driven hunt in a small part of our territory, about 500 acres. Of our associated hunters, only 25 or 30 showed up. The rest of the hunters came from other parts of the country and we accept then also as guest. The price to participate in the driven hunt was 15 euros (20 dollars) for associated hunters and 30 euros (40 dollars) for all outside hunters but the price include breakfast and lunch.
The number of doors (shooting spots) marked to close the terrain (around) was 65 (50 numbers for 12 gauge hunters and 15 letters for rifle hunters). Here is the map (I covered local names):
In total, 66 hunters showed up – we had another map printed with doors marked inside the terrain but we would only use it if more hunters showed up (up to 81 doors). The yellow Z’s are drop zones (we deploy hunters in pickups so we can do it faster to avoid having boars leaving the zone because of engine noises). After all hunters are in position, we deploy the packs of dogs inside the terrain.
We manage to kill only 3 boars but many got away. Why? Because as you can see, most doors were occupied by 12 gauge hunters (12 gauge can only shoot bullets when hunting big game – no multiple projectiles are allowed here, no buckshots), some very old, and even the rifles didn’t all have scopes (some people shoot with iron sights only). And to add to this, from October to the end of December, everybody could hunt small game in that terrain during the day (many shots fired), and boars during the night (by waiting process). And now you ask: why don’t you avoid hunting there the months before the driven hunts? Because in the middle of that terrain some people have vegetables, cereals and other stuff planted and we cannot leave boars alone or they will destroy all that (landowners don’t demand money from hunters but they sure don’t want boars digging in their fields).
Anyways, driven hunts are an excuse to gather and have fun. We shoot some boars and foxes, laugh and exchange stories, eat and drink. At the end of the day we have some dead boars and many missed shots, lol, and everybody is happy.
And if any associated hunter is unhappy and wants a boar to take home, just go wait for the pig in forest or fields during the night. Use some corn in the days before and no artificial lights during the waiting.
Obviously, our driven hunts are not made to make money. Dogs and lunch costs are usually higher than the admission fees. Loss don’t occurs because we sell the boars in auction.
In Portugal, Spain, France, Poland, Germany and Hungary there are obviously lots of commercial driven hunts, organized for profit. The land is owned by a corporation or few land owners that are well paid, boars are left alone for several months or years, very well fed (some feeders are even online 24/7 so you can see the boars eating in packs, lol). And participants are bigger payers, with 9,3x62 calibres or larger (so the boars stay dead in front of them and not run to the next hunter’s door after the shot, lololol). Oh yes, because if you use less than a 30.06 you are considered mentally inapt, lol (I saw running boars take 4 or 5 shots until they drop, and I don’t mean missed shots, I mean shots that make holes). That is why I don’t recommend anybody to buy boars in actions, lolol (they look like they were hit by a JDAM (yap, dogs like to kick boar's asses too and grab a bite).
If you liked that video you may search for more using “hunters video” string on torrents (don’t know if the company launch them there for self promotion purposes or if they are wooden leg files lol).
Sometimes we count more than 100 or 150 shots during a driven hunt and at the end we got 6, 7 or 10 boars dead. Most pigs escape, lol. To get more and larger boars, in some areas hunters organizations (who organize driven hunts) limit or ban hunting during several months or even years, but you can only do that in forest areas, not if there are any agricultural fields near by (or they will destroy everything and you will get problems with land owners). Yes, most driven hunts take place in private lands (not own by the state) because in many Europeans countries (like Portugal) property is very fragmented (very, very small bits of land). Usually hunters associate themselves in small local organizations and without opposition of landowners mark a territory of several hundred acres around the villages (obviously the state demands a tax). I’m one of those hunters and our territory is about 15.000 acres (6.000 hectares) – we are about 60 hunters in our assotiation, but many are very old and only hunt rabbits, doves and partridges. My family has some small bits of land in there also, but the total number of landowners is probably larger than 10.000, lol (some bits of land have unknown owners). The property is so fragmented that rural land owners don’t care about hunters (some live in the cities, far away, others are very old).
On January 16th we organized a driven hunt in a small part of our territory, about 500 acres. Of our associated hunters, only 25 or 30 showed up. The rest of the hunters came from other parts of the country and we accept then also as guest. The price to participate in the driven hunt was 15 euros (20 dollars) for associated hunters and 30 euros (40 dollars) for all outside hunters but the price include breakfast and lunch.
The number of doors (shooting spots) marked to close the terrain (around) was 65 (50 numbers for 12 gauge hunters and 15 letters for rifle hunters). Here is the map (I covered local names):
In total, 66 hunters showed up – we had another map printed with doors marked inside the terrain but we would only use it if more hunters showed up (up to 81 doors). The yellow Z’s are drop zones (we deploy hunters in pickups so we can do it faster to avoid having boars leaving the zone because of engine noises). After all hunters are in position, we deploy the packs of dogs inside the terrain.
We manage to kill only 3 boars but many got away. Why? Because as you can see, most doors were occupied by 12 gauge hunters (12 gauge can only shoot bullets when hunting big game – no multiple projectiles are allowed here, no buckshots), some very old, and even the rifles didn’t all have scopes (some people shoot with iron sights only). And to add to this, from October to the end of December, everybody could hunt small game in that terrain during the day (many shots fired), and boars during the night (by waiting process). And now you ask: why don’t you avoid hunting there the months before the driven hunts? Because in the middle of that terrain some people have vegetables, cereals and other stuff planted and we cannot leave boars alone or they will destroy all that (landowners don’t demand money from hunters but they sure don’t want boars digging in their fields).
Anyways, driven hunts are an excuse to gather and have fun. We shoot some boars and foxes, laugh and exchange stories, eat and drink. At the end of the day we have some dead boars and many missed shots, lol, and everybody is happy.
And if any associated hunter is unhappy and wants a boar to take home, just go wait for the pig in forest or fields during the night. Use some corn in the days before and no artificial lights during the waiting.
Obviously, our driven hunts are not made to make money. Dogs and lunch costs are usually higher than the admission fees. Loss don’t occurs because we sell the boars in auction.
In Portugal, Spain, France, Poland, Germany and Hungary there are obviously lots of commercial driven hunts, organized for profit. The land is owned by a corporation or few land owners that are well paid, boars are left alone for several months or years, very well fed (some feeders are even online 24/7 so you can see the boars eating in packs, lol). And participants are bigger payers, with 9,3x62 calibres or larger (so the boars stay dead in front of them and not run to the next hunter’s door after the shot, lololol). Oh yes, because if you use less than a 30.06 you are considered mentally inapt, lol (I saw running boars take 4 or 5 shots until they drop, and I don’t mean missed shots, I mean shots that make holes). That is why I don’t recommend anybody to buy boars in actions, lolol (they look like they were hit by a JDAM (yap, dogs like to kick boar's asses too and grab a bite).
If you liked that video you may search for more using “hunters video” string on torrents (don’t know if the company launch them there for self promotion purposes or if they are wooden leg files lol).
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many of our local hunting laws are plain conservative tradition,
and make absolutely no sense. Not anymore. Probably never did.
With literally millions of boar around we should be allowed to use night sights on them.
While no one wants to eat industrially produced meat anymore,
the legislature doesn´t make it possible to harvest the boars.
It´s a shame. They need to be culled and eaten.
It´s too late for "hunting".
Big problem in Germany. At least.
and make absolutely no sense. Not anymore. Probably never did.
With literally millions of boar around we should be allowed to use night sights on them.
While no one wants to eat industrially produced meat anymore,
the legislature doesn´t make it possible to harvest the boars.
It´s a shame. They need to be culled and eaten.
It´s too late for "hunting".
Big problem in Germany. At least.
No need to thank me, I’m glad to help. Next month, on Sunday the 6th, we will do another driven hunt in another part of our territory, up north. The doors with numbers from one to six will have rifles - the numbers one to six with letters attached (like 1A, 2B etc) will be suppressed if we don’t get enough rifles. All other doors will be occupied with 12 gauge hunters (we will suppress the doors inside or some around if we became short on hunters).
Map used last year (this year we may have to do some adjustments):
To MP7:
I recently heard that French government was calling national hunters to help controlling boar’s numbers. They became a national problem because they breed too much, too fast, and hunter’s number is decreasing very fast. Boars are already inside villages and backyards, lol. You have lots of boars in Germany too, but maybe you can shoot some french boars crossing the borders. I know we in Portugal shoot many Spanish boars that cross the frontier to our side, lololol.
Map used last year (this year we may have to do some adjustments):
To MP7:
I recently heard that French government was calling national hunters to help controlling boar’s numbers. They became a national problem because they breed too much, too fast, and hunter’s number is decreasing very fast. Boars are already inside villages and backyards, lol. You have lots of boars in Germany too, but maybe you can shoot some french boars crossing the borders. I know we in Portugal shoot many Spanish boars that cross the frontier to our side, lololol.
Nice! Them boys are using red dots!
They seem to prefer off hand (standing, no rest), I guess it works if you're good enough...
Fernando, I understand the 6.5mm is very common in Scandinavian countries for everything from varmints to moose. Can you comment?
They seem to prefer off hand (standing, no rest), I guess it works if you're good enough...
Fernando, I understand the 6.5mm is very common in Scandinavian countries for everything from varmints to moose. Can you comment?
Cottswald, Portugal is the western country in Europe, south, very near to north Africa, so we don’t have the same animals than Scandinavian countries do; Mp7 is probably much more informed than me regarding what calibres northern European hunters use.
Here, in western/south Europe, we don’t have moose and the only varmint that we can shoot with rifles is foxes (and only in boar driven hunts).
We have highly restricted legislation concerning fire arms and the only time we can legally shoot rifles is when hunting or in legal shooting fields built for that purpose, so not only we don’t have many rifles: we only have the ones we need for the type of hunting we do (mostly boars and some few deer). That is one of the reason almost no one buys uncommon calibres: everybody uses 30.06 or 9,3x62. Calibres like .308 are not commonly preferred here (because it is not a great performer in driven hunts) and less than that is unthinkable. Recently I got a bolt action .308 to use at night, when waiting boars (where shots usually take calmly place at a still target), but I am still to know if I’ve done a good or bad thing, lol (in the first nights I’ll probably take the semi-auto 30.06 along also).
Here, in western/south Europe, we don’t have moose and the only varmint that we can shoot with rifles is foxes (and only in boar driven hunts).
We have highly restricted legislation concerning fire arms and the only time we can legally shoot rifles is when hunting or in legal shooting fields built for that purpose, so not only we don’t have many rifles: we only have the ones we need for the type of hunting we do (mostly boars and some few deer). That is one of the reason almost no one buys uncommon calibres: everybody uses 30.06 or 9,3x62. Calibres like .308 are not commonly preferred here (because it is not a great performer in driven hunts) and less than that is unthinkable. Recently I got a bolt action .308 to use at night, when waiting boars (where shots usually take calmly place at a still target), but I am still to know if I’ve done a good or bad thing, lol (in the first nights I’ll probably take the semi-auto 30.06 along also).
Mp7 said:
With literally millions of boar around we should be allowed to use night sights on them.
You make pretty good daytime scopes that can be used at night in the nights around full moon. If you grab a quality 56mm front lens scope with illuminated reticle you will have no problem popping some pigs from 100m away.
Here in Portugal we cannot use artificial lights, so night scopes poses some interpretation problems here also. Some say it is not legal to use night vision with infrared illuminators because although IR light isn’t visible, it is still light artificially obtained (by IR illuminator). Others say that with or without IR illuminators it is not legal to hunt with night vision equipment.
Personally I think that in our case it has no practical consequence because we can only hunt boars at night from the 8 nights before full moon until the night after full moon, and in all of those nights we will do a better job with a good 3-12x56mm scope with illuminated reticle. I have a night vision scope and I never use that thing (and I will not use it unless for some reason I will be forced to shoot some boar in a new moon night - if boars attack farms we can ask for a permit to shoot them every night, with or without moon).
With literally millions of boar around we should be allowed to use night sights on them.
You make pretty good daytime scopes that can be used at night in the nights around full moon. If you grab a quality 56mm front lens scope with illuminated reticle you will have no problem popping some pigs from 100m away.
Here in Portugal we cannot use artificial lights, so night scopes poses some interpretation problems here also. Some say it is not legal to use night vision with infrared illuminators because although IR light isn’t visible, it is still light artificially obtained (by IR illuminator). Others say that with or without IR illuminators it is not legal to hunt with night vision equipment.
Personally I think that in our case it has no practical consequence because we can only hunt boars at night from the 8 nights before full moon until the night after full moon, and in all of those nights we will do a better job with a good 3-12x56mm scope with illuminated reticle. I have a night vision scope and I never use that thing (and I will not use it unless for some reason I will be forced to shoot some boar in a new moon night - if boars attack farms we can ask for a permit to shoot them every night, with or without moon).
alsaqr
Member
Thanks, Fernando. A lot of planning goes into your driven boar hunts.
In Oklahoma we are not allowed to use spotlights or night scopes. Some of us do have small motion detection lights on our feeders. Mine are about 10 watts and have a red lens. There are magnets on the back.
In Oklahoma we are not allowed to use spotlights or night scopes. Some of us do have small motion detection lights on our feeders. Mine are about 10 watts and have a red lens. There are magnets on the back.
Hi!
Alsaqr, so you can shoot pigs or other animals with that red lights on? Our legislation doesn’t specify what kind of lights is forbidden; just say that it is illegal ILUMINATE animals. Funny thing is that recently I saw a document emitted by an authority forcing the use of lights when shooting boars that menace certain cultures in certain parts of the country, and their excuse was: well, this is not really hunting, it’s preventing damages. This is why many people here doesn’t care about some aspects of the law (they don’t give a **** about government orientations and regulations because there is interpretations for every taste). Most guys I know that use 12 gauge shotguns to hunt pigs at night use as many lights as they can (it may not solve all their vision problems but I feel allot more safe when crossing the forest at night, lolol).
To tell you the truth, since we can only hunt boars near the full moon, I probably wouldn’t use lights anyway, except if I had to chase any wounded boar (the first ring of the new .308 has a weaver rail on top and I already have here a led lenser p7 to attach there if necessary – and I will use it no matter what the law says because in first place comes my skin and bones, lol). Lights are of no use in normal nights with a good 56mm front lens and often will alert or scare animals away. Some months ago a guy here bought an Nd3 (green laser light) and a pack of boars appeared; he lighted up that thing and boars split instantly. And then the guy said: f###, why did I light up that ****? I could make the shot anyways.
Some people say that some boars don’t run right away after you turn on the lights (with or without filters), but after sitting in the woods for several hours, do we really want to risk it? Not me. If I don’t shoot the bastard today, I will shoot it tomorrow. But I will not use lights because then the pig will know where I am and in the next nights he may not show up at all, and even if I does, he will go silent and calmly after my position to know if I’m there. Even without lights I saw this movie lots of time already, lololol.
Babarsac, last year I captured sat images from google maps or microsoft maps and edited them in corel photopaint. I have a global map of our territory so every time we want to organize a driven hunt in a certain area I just edit and cut that precise area (the original map is very, very big).
Alsaqr, so you can shoot pigs or other animals with that red lights on? Our legislation doesn’t specify what kind of lights is forbidden; just say that it is illegal ILUMINATE animals. Funny thing is that recently I saw a document emitted by an authority forcing the use of lights when shooting boars that menace certain cultures in certain parts of the country, and their excuse was: well, this is not really hunting, it’s preventing damages. This is why many people here doesn’t care about some aspects of the law (they don’t give a **** about government orientations and regulations because there is interpretations for every taste). Most guys I know that use 12 gauge shotguns to hunt pigs at night use as many lights as they can (it may not solve all their vision problems but I feel allot more safe when crossing the forest at night, lolol).
To tell you the truth, since we can only hunt boars near the full moon, I probably wouldn’t use lights anyway, except if I had to chase any wounded boar (the first ring of the new .308 has a weaver rail on top and I already have here a led lenser p7 to attach there if necessary – and I will use it no matter what the law says because in first place comes my skin and bones, lol). Lights are of no use in normal nights with a good 56mm front lens and often will alert or scare animals away. Some months ago a guy here bought an Nd3 (green laser light) and a pack of boars appeared; he lighted up that thing and boars split instantly. And then the guy said: f###, why did I light up that ****? I could make the shot anyways.
Some people say that some boars don’t run right away after you turn on the lights (with or without filters), but after sitting in the woods for several hours, do we really want to risk it? Not me. If I don’t shoot the bastard today, I will shoot it tomorrow. But I will not use lights because then the pig will know where I am and in the next nights he may not show up at all, and even if I does, he will go silent and calmly after my position to know if I’m there. Even without lights I saw this movie lots of time already, lololol.
Babarsac, last year I captured sat images from google maps or microsoft maps and edited them in corel photopaint. I have a global map of our territory so every time we want to organize a driven hunt in a certain area I just edit and cut that precise area (the original map is very, very big).
Dan Forrester
Member
Thanks for taking the time with those posts Fernando. I found your information very interesting even though I’m not a big hunter.
Dan
Dan
VT Deer Hunter
Member
I always thought hogs like that looked creepy. And cool gun Fernando very modern.
Italians, Austrians and Germans usually give a lot of attention to design. And with new materials coming by they can reduce weight.
Even CZ is paying more attention to design, although their rifles still weight a ton. Here is one cz 550 battue 30.06 of a friend of mine:
Even CZ is paying more attention to design, although their rifles still weight a ton. Here is one cz 550 battue 30.06 of a friend of mine:
Mine, with the previous meopta (meanwhile painted and placed in a bolt .308):
When I installed the new scope I took off the carbon ramp and the front sight (usable for close shooting when without the scope – in driven hunts).
My friend also took the ramp out of the cz 550 (he uses fixed rings – not quick release).
When I installed the new scope I took off the carbon ramp and the front sight (usable for close shooting when without the scope – in driven hunts).
My friend also took the ramp out of the cz 550 (he uses fixed rings – not quick release).
Hunter from Sweden here!
Swedish hunters use the same broad variety of cartridges as Americans use, while some cartridges are more popular than others. The most common big game/allround cartridges are: 6,5x55, .30-06, .308w, 9,3x92.
The 6,5x55 is plenty for moose, just use a nice bullet and make sure to get a good lung hit, preferably shredding both lungs, and the moose will go down. I don't hunt bear myself (and I don't own a 6,5x55) but there are people who stalk (brown) bear with 6,5x55 using the same rationale of shot placement. A hole the size of an expanded 6,5 through one or both lungs of a mammal will kill the mammal. The heavy 6,5 also does have a good sectional density and thus penetration is good. You can argument that if a smaller bullet hits bone or some other accident occurs penetration (and direction of the bullets movement inside the target) won't be as reliable but I don't believe the difference to be of practical importance. Lungs punctured with two holes won't do a lot for their owner.
A magnum caliber will not compensate for a bad shot, you need to destroy something vital enough to get a humane kill. During the absolute majority of circumstances this can be accomplished with a single shot.
Hunting culture is of course different in different countries and I believe that Swedes are very picky about shot placement and not taking a shot that you're not sure you'll make.
During driven hunts of course some shots aren't as perfect as we'd like and it's also nice to have some "insurance" in the form of a second shot to make sure the game stops where you want it to.
Cosmoline
Member
Fascinating. That map looks like a military campaign!
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If you've never had the chance to operate a Blazer do do. They are incredibly fast and smooth once you get the hang of them. I had one for a bit and shot a few elk and deer with it. Kind of wish I'd never have sold it. They are STUPID expensive now with the dollar being so weak.
While I can see how they would appeal to some, they are not my cup of tea in the looks arena. The Metal receiver from top to bottom just seems like a break open or falling block single shot. Not a huge fan of the straight pull mechanic either.
Blaser rifles are increasingly popular in Sweden as well. Very nice guns but not my cup of tea. I don't like how on the older models (R93) you can't easily remove the magazine when emptying the rifle and I don't like how on the new rifle (R8) you can't remove the magazine without removing the trigger group.
Very impressed with the engineering though and the switch-barrel feature is very appealing. The scope is mounted to the barrel, so you don't have to zero the rifle after switching calibers (just like on a Contender gun). There are barrels in all calibers from .22lr to .416 rigby or something like that, and they all go in the same very lightweight and compact receiver.
Very impressed with the engineering though and the switch-barrel feature is very appealing. The scope is mounted to the barrel, so you don't have to zero the rifle after switching calibers (just like on a Contender gun). There are barrels in all calibers from .22lr to .416 rigby or something like that, and they all go in the same very lightweight and compact receiver.
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While mine was super accurate it had some mechanical and aesthetic flaws that kept me form warming up to it. My only point was how fast and smooth they are once you get them figured out.
That whole bolt blowing off peoples heads issue with R-93 straight action kind of cooled my jets too.
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