"They want water. I have it, as long as they agree to get baptized..."

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Chris Rhines

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Interesting happenings in the Gulf. Please, please, do me the favor of not turning this into a thread on "my religon is better than your religon."

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/world/5554317.htm

CAMP BUSHMASTER, Iraq - In this dry desert world near Najaf, where the Army V Corps combat support system sprawls across miles of scabrous dust, there's an oasis of sorts: a 500-gallon pool of pristine, cool water.
It belongs to Army chaplain Josh Llano of Houston, who sees the water shortage, which has kept thousands of filthy soldiers from bathing for weeks, as an opportunity.
''It's simple. They want water. I have it, as long as they agree to get baptized,'' he said.
And agree they do. Every day, soldiers take the plunge for the Lord and come up clean for the first time in weeks.
''They do appear physically and spiritually cleansed,'' Llano said.
First, though, the soldiers have to go to one of Llano's hour-and-a-half sermons in his dirt-floor tent. Then the baptism takes an hour of quoting from the Bible.
''Regardless of their motives,'' Llano said, ``I get the chance to take them closer to the Lord.''
Click to expand...

I'm amazed that this is permitted in the US military. Also seems like a pretty mean thing to do to one's fellow troops.

- Chris
 
Religion is very important in the military. I remember when I was in boot camp I HAD to go to church on Sunday regardless of whether I wanted to or needed to. The Sr. DI didn't care for excuses and no one argued with SSgt. Reynolds. And, if you were Jewish, you had to go on Friday night whether you wanted to or not.

GT
 
No, the military issued religion beginning a long time ago, when people started coming face to face with their own mortality.

Foxhole conversion, I think, is the term.

This "save your soul and scrub your sweaty body", though, is a crappy tactic, IMHO...
Get a bath and a new Eternal Life while you're at it.
Cheapens it. Trivializes it. Not good.
 
I read the article. I stopped and calmed down. Now I'll try to comment rationally.
This chaplain demeans himself, his beliefs, his ceremony (or sacrament) and the troops to whom he is supposed to minister. The ONLY good to come out of this is some troops get cleaned up.
This makes the South Park episode about Starvin' Marvin and the missionaries seem prophetic.
I am revolted. :barf:
 
First of all, no one is forcing these soldiers to be baptized. They are perfectly free to opt out. No where does the article mention orders from superior officers or the brass (that's the extent of my military lingo... ;) ) regarding this. And since Mr. Llano is a chaplain he is perfectly free to share his faith with other soldiers.

Furthermore, as is often the case in situations where death may be imminent, many soldiers have taken a new interest in church and faith. Some have even decided to become Christians or pick up a faith they discarded as children.

That said, I don't entirely agree with what he is doing. I come from the tradition of pouring a little water on someone's forehead vs. the "full-immersion" baptism Mr. Llano is using, so this is a little unusual for me. I don't disagree with that method, but flaunting that much water in a desert where everyone is thirsty and dirty seems like poor taste. And baptism is not something to be undertaken merely as a ministry tool. It is a statement of faith for that person (or that person's parents, in the case of infants). And it should be a _voluntary_ statement of faith, not one produced under coercion or the promise of rewards.

And frankly, I think using that much water in that way is likely to engender more negative feelings (as it has here) than postive interest. Mr Llano's goal of bringing more people to Christ is admirable, but his methods fall short.
 
No, the military issued religion beginning a long time ago, when people started coming face to face with their own mortality.

Foxhole conversion, I think, is the term.
Click to expand...
Is one thing to minister to guys who want to find a previously unknown (to them) higher power to pray to while the bullets are flying and another to say "you can bathe only if you go through a religious ceremony of a creed that may or may not be compatible with yours".

There's the old saying that "there are no atheists in a foxhole" ... aparently there aren't too many at the water hole either. *grin*
 
I would take the bath but then I would crawfish on the deal and go back to not caring about religion.:D What is he going to do? :neener:

It is nice to see this water being used for a good purpose and not being wasted on the people that are in need of drinking water.:rolleyes:
 
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Thanks, Dannyboy, that's what I was wondering. How did the Chaplain come to own a 500-gallon tank in an Army camp?

It sounds like the real story is that he's found a loophole in regulations. It sounds like for some reason they were crazy enough to give him a 500-gallon tank for baptisms, and he doesn't allow soldiers to bathe in it (against which there are probably standing orders) but he does allow them to take the baptismal. Frankly I question how clean one can become during a baptism--unless his "baptism" means letting them scrub in the tub for awhile.

It sure does sound low, but if that's the way of it, it also raises an important question: Whose idea was it to set aside a 500-gallon tank of water for the Chaplain to baptize soldiers in when they're fighting in a desert?
 
This "chaplain" seems to have skipped a couple of seminary classes, where they taught the purpose behind baptism, and the penalty for taking sacraments without one's whole heart. Based on the story as presented here, he's a chump.
 
This chaplain is a genuine fool and embarrasses all Christians. I guess he doesn't have a clue what baptism is about or what it means. You can't blackmail people into believing.
 
From a PR standpoint, this is completely and utterly psychotic WHEN WE'RE IN THE PROCESS OF INVADING A MUSLIM/ARAB COUNTRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:banghead:

Right, this applies to US troops. Doesn't matter. This ONE idiot is going to single-handledly convince the Arab world that we're on a "Christian Jihad" of some sort.

"Stupid" doesn't even BEGIN.

He should be defrocked, ejected from Iraq in chains and court-marshalled *immediately*. Not because he actually deserves quite all that; he is only really guilty of stupidity. But if we DON'T fry his butt harsh, we're going to face a friggin' *horde* of Islamic volunteers from all over, stirred up by Al Jaziira :fire:.
 
Is there any additional source on this? Is the Miami Herald the only source? My BS meter is pretty much pegged.

- Gabe
 
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One of the Methodist Elders here read this and said "That irritates the snot out of me." (That's as close as these folk come to profanity, which is quite refreshing) I'm not Christian, but the idea of bribing somebody into a religious sacrament like this... well, it stinks.
 
Well

Example of an Islamic excess is their advocacy in many parts that all infidels shall be killed, man, woman and child.

Example of a Christain excess is some Chaplin baptises a bunch of dirty overworked Marines in his private waterhole.

Example of THR excess we go ballistic over the Chaplin.

Don't agree with this fellow or what he is doing but come on guys...........take a chill pill.

On the Evilness scale of 1 to 10 I give the Islamic guys a 9 on the bad end.
This Chaplin does not even rate a 1. High on the bad judgement scale, high on the misquided scale of what baptism means.....but not evil.


S-
 
Jim ITS FAKE! Figure it out for yourself. This is some lefty's idea of a joke, like pretending they are in the Red Cross and calling families in the middle of the night to announce their sons are dead.

How long do you think 500 gallons of water would remain "pristine" if you and your dog took a bath in it, much less a few hundred soldiers?

Where have you ever seen a chaplain who didn't follow military discipline? Chaplains are not Geraldo, they are members of the unit.
 
The story is BS, but

it could smoke out a few of more openly hostle muslims for the Crusaders. That's a good thing. Might as well send them to join allah in hell now. When the sleepers join in, repeat as necessary.

A clever piece of psy ops! :cool:
 
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