Thinking about buying a CZ 452

[tigre]

I've been shopping for my first rifle, after having bought my first gun ever (a CZ P-01, which I love) a couple of months ago. I've shot a .22 before and really enjoyed it, but am quite inexperienced generally, having not been raised shooting. I've decided on a bolt-action because the entire purpose is to work on shooting skills and accuracy. For now it will be used exclusively at the range, and mostly at an indoor 100 yard range, and I want to learn to shoot it offhand. I think I should start with iron sights based on what I've read from other people here and on RimfireCentral.com, and because that seems like more of a challenge. I'll probably go for a scope at some point though, particularly for longer distances, as my eyes aren't all that great (mild astigmatism that isn't corrected with my contacts).

The two I've been looking at for the most part are the Savage Mark II, especially the BV model, and the CZ 452, which I've pretty well decided on at this point. I'm not sentimental about most things, but I'd really like my first rifle to be something I'm still going to value in 20 or 30 years, and these seem like really great guns, especially for the price.

I'm thinking that I should go for the Trainer, because it comes with sights (and I've heard good things about their stock sights), is a bit lighter than the Lux, looks pretty good, and is less expensive than the other full-sized wood-stocked models. But I do still have a few questions and concerns that I'm hoping you guys can help me with:

1) It has a "hogsback" stock, which should make sights easier to use, but may pose a problem with a scope. I have kind of a long neck and high cheekbones, being a girl, and don't know how that will fit with that stock. I think it should be a good fit, because my neck sometimes feels a little squished when shouldering straight-combed models. Unfortunately CZs are hard to find around here and I may have to buy it without actually getting my hands on it first. Of course, if it turns out to be less than optimal to use with a scope, I could always get another gun for that purpose.

2) The primary reason I've ruled out the American is the lack of sights. But I don't know if sights can be added later. Is that possible? And if it's possible, would anyone recommend it?

3) Am I foolishly ignoring other guns that I should consider? Is there a compelling reason to go with the Savage instead, which is really only a little cheaper?

Thanks much for any help, everyone.

 

[Rembrandt]

I've a firm believer that one should look at the top of the line .22's first.....then compromise on features and price from that point.

Start with Cooper, Anshutz, & Kimber.....by the time you get to the other end of the spectrum you'll have a better idea why the others are cheaper.

 

[tigre]

Well, at some point (when I have a real job - I'm a grad student now) I'll look at more expensive rifles, but I'm in a relatively low price bracket right now, which is why I didn't start looking at more expensive models in the first place. I'm just learning to shoot - not yet looking at competing or anything.

 

[Turbozag]

Personally, I think the CZ is one of the best bargains out there.

Near Anchutz quality at less than half the price.

I have an American, and it's a sweet rifle.

For the money, they can't be beat IMHO.

 

[dm1333]

tigre

I own and shoot a Thompson Center R-55 Sporter, which runs about $500. I also shoot in a bench rest league and regularly get beat by people with CZ rifles. I would not hesitate to buy one but I think the Lux is a much nicer rifle than the trainer. If money is tight the Trainer is still a good rifle.

Depending on how tall you are the Scout might also be a good choice.

 

[hksw]

Welcome aboard.

IMO, the CZ is an excellent choice and your pick of the 452 Training Rifle a very good one for someone who is starting the rifle discipline. Please note that the Mark II BV also does not have iron sights.

As you have surmised, the hog back buttstock is more condusive for the iron sights than scopes. There are aftermarket cheek pads available that you can slap onto the stock to raise the comb of the buttstock to get your sight more in line with a scope that may be installed later down the road. One issue you may encounter with the iron sighted rifles is that you will have to be aware of the clearance for the objective bell (the front part of the scope) of the scope with respect to the rear sight (If the scope is too big). But, also as you have properly concluded, you can (and should, IMO) just get another un-sighted rifle. (Always good to have a backup gun.)

Iron sights can be installed on the American (and Varmint) but the front sight will have to be drilled/taped onto the barrel. THere are a few rear sights in the market for the CZ guns that can be attached to the receiver grooves. (I'm ordering a Williams FP-CZ-TK in the near future myself for my Training Rifle. if it works out OK (and I think it will) I'll get more for my Ultra Luxes. One of the great things about the Training Rifle/Special/Lux/Ultra Lux is that the front sight is height adjustable.

IMO, compared to the other offerings from Marlin, Savage, Ruger, etc., the CZ rimfires are well above them in build quality and performance. The action will be a little rough at first but will smooth out with use. Only short coming about the Trining Rifle is the trigger creep. This can be overcome with some parts replacements.

Two great places to obtain 452s (and 453s) are Whittakers and Bud's.

 

[hksw]

Start with Cooper, Anshutz, & Kimber.....by the time you get to the other end of the spectrum you'll have a better idea why the others are cheaper.

IMO, the high end guns certainly are great choices. However, for tigre, who is just starting out in the game, the CZ is an excellent choice over even the higher end guys.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

The CZ452 is an excellent rifle - the Trainer is a smokin value.

 

[tigre]

Depending on how tall you are the Scout might also be a good choice.

I'm 5'4", but have relatively long arms. I'll try out the Scout if I can find one, and will definitely look at something with a similar length of pull, but I think it might be too short. I spent yesterday making a tour of gun shops with a friend, and there were only a couple of full-sized rifles that felt like the stock was a little too long. I tried out a CZ 527 American and liked how it fit.

Please note that the Mark II BV also does not have iron sights.

Oh, that's right. I think it's the G that has sights, now that I think of it. I've been going back and forth about whether I want to use sights or not (mostly because not everything comes with them in the first place), but I think I should. A scope almost seems like cheating to me, at least at this stage. I want to start off really simple, so that I can more accurately judge my skills as I progress, rather than relying on technology (which might actually prove to be a distraction, as well).

 

[dm1333]

I think your choice of rifles and the fact that you want to start with iron sights is pretty wise. When you get the rifle experiment a little with different types of ammo to see which one your rifle likes best. Most of the people I shoot against in competition are using Wolf or SK but I'm sure that you will find some less expensive rounds that your rifle will really like.

I use Wolf and SK in my T/C but it also really likes PMC Zappers which were a lot cheaper. Federal ammo seems to have a pretty good reputation. Have you been over to Rimfirecentral? That is the place to go for any type of .22 question you may have.

 

[tigre]

Have you been over to Rimfirecentral? That is the place to go for any type of .22 question you may have.

I have, and I've read a lot over there, but my registration is still being approved I guess, so I can't post there yet.

 

[dm1333]

You know, I read that in your original post but I forgot. Another good rifle to consider would be a 10/22. In stock form they will not be as accurate as a CZ but if you want to eventually add aftermarket parts like a barrel and trigger kit they are also pretty accurate. I only brought this up because I bought a used 10/22 and have added a better barrel, scope and trigger. I'm hoping to shoot it in next months rimfire match and see how well I do. Getting tired of losing to CZ's!

 

[elmerfudd]

I own and shoot a Thompson Center R-55 Sporter, which runs about $500. I also shoot in a bench rest league and regularly get beat by people with CZ rifles.

I own an R55 Benchmark and a CZ 452 Varmint and the CZ is easily the more accurate of the two. The TC is still a nice gun and if I do everything right will put all my shots into a single hole maybe 1/2" in diameter at 25m, but the CZ will do the same thing at 50m and is much more forgiving when it comes to form and trigger pull.

 

[dm1333]

Rub it in buddy! Rub it in! I'm curious to see how my 10/22 is going to work out. I'm waiting for a trigger spring to get delivered before I can shoot it with the new barrel and trigger.

 

[jhansman]

I have the CZ 452 Lux, and it is an excellent rifle, extremely accurate and well made. The only modification I've made to mine is a trigger replacement with a Rifle Basix model. I'm looking at getting the CZ 527 Varmint next.

 

[goon]

I had a 3x9x40mm on my CZ when I first got it. It was like a laser with a scope and the stock didn't pose any problems at all. I did have to go with high rings though because I didn't want to have to remove the rear sight.

I love my CZ and if you're thinking about a .22, I don't think you could do much better.
About the only thing I don't like about it is that extra mags cost $40 each.

 

[22-rimfire]

I'd pick up and handle as many CZ's as possible. The fit is important. I would not order sight unseen if I were you. Of the CZ's I only own the 452 American. It is a fine 22 rifle but does not have iron sights. The Scout is a kids rifle. The Trainer is a full sized rifle.

I don't like to shoot with iron sights much; neve have when scopes are available. I'd suggest you get the CZ 452 American and mount a 4x scope on it (1" diameter). You will be all set for most things except precision shooting from the bench beyond 25 yds.

There are other excellent 22 rifles around. The old Mossbergs all generally shoot very well and they are certainly inexpensive. My first 22 was a Mossberg.

Other ones to look out for are used Remington 22 rifles. They are consistantly very good shooters.

 

[sgphoto]

I've had very good luck with CZ pistols. They have a good reputation as do their rifles so I took the plunge after much research.

The rifles are the handgun equals, in quality and value. This is my first, a 452FS.



It will not be my last CZ rifle. It is accurate, well-made, good wood, nice trigger with easy tune-ups, a real shooter.

These are excellent values. The 452 is a real gun that should last you for your lifetime.

Steve

 

[RancidSumo]

CZ's are great. I would recomend either the Lux or the FS. I have the FS and love it.

 

[chris in va]

I have a CZ 527 carbine, and the thing just fits like a glove. If the 452 is anything like mine the way it works, you'll love it. Not to say my various CZ's have been perfect though. All have had various issues.

I think though if I were to ever get a 22, it would be a Henry leveraction carbine. Just something about racking that lever gives me warm fuzzies.

 

[tjj]

Go with the CZ. You will like them a lot. With a little work you can really get the trigger nice and the action smooth.
I have five of them in .17HMR and .22LR. I'd get a couple more but I've moved on to center fire and some benchrest shootin lately.

 

[Selfdfenz]

tigre
You short list shows you’ve given this matter some serious thought. Good for you. I have a couple of CZs and a couple of B-series Savages. They are different styles of rifles but both have their good points. If you are really serious about sticking with irons and learning three position shooting, the Savage Mark II-FVT comes with a good set of target-style peep sights. The accutrigger is pretty good right out of the box. I have yet to make any adjustments to mine and it's been about 2 yrs since I got that rifle. The main thing I don't like about the Savage product is the magazines. Savage mags can be rough on the fingers when loading. I had to order one of my Bs and found the other at a gun show but they are seldom seen at any of the shops around here.

With the CZ 452 you get a excellent but different set of iron sites (compared to the FVT) and a pretty darn good trigger. The CZ trigger can be improved to what I think in the end is a unit just a tad better than the accutrigger. The FVT with its synthetic stock and the 452 trainer with birch stock are in about the same weight class but their handling charactistics couldn't be more different. [The heavy barrel and synthetic stock of the FVT give the Savage a balance entirely different than the CZ. If you aren't used to a weight forward rifle it could be an issue.] Loading CZ magazines is a pleasure compared to the Savage but extra CZ mags are pricey. You may have no interest in carrying either rifle in the field but the CZ is more user-friendly if you do. In terms of fit and finish they are both OK but they also both smooth out the more you shoot. Loading single rounds directly into the chanmer is easier on the CZ. CZs are not very common here either but I picked my trainer up at a gun show years ago when they were still $180. I found the Scout at a shop but it was the only one I ever encountered in a retail establishment.

Talking about long necks, even with low mounts it’s been my experience that the stocks on both rifles are a bit low for a scope. Doable, but you gotta raise your cheek vertically on the stock. The Bs and the Zs aren't too picky ammo-wise. I like shooting sub-sonics and so do they.

If I were still under the grad-school-vow-of-poverty [been there, done that] and could only get one it would be the CZ. It fits me a little better for shooting something w/o a scope. YMMV. Get the one that feels, fits and functions best in your hands and don’t look back.

By all means let us know what you end up with.
Best,
S-

 

[Selfdfenz]

oops
double tap

 

[mrsig]

I have the 452 Lux and FS as well as the 453 American and Varmint (one CZ .22 for each child). They are all great rifles. The sights on the two 452's work quite well. Both I and the children shoot well with them.

- Sig

 

[Cueball]

tigre

You are on the right track with your research. I have the CZ Trainer and I love it! It shoots great and has incredible accuracy. You will have a blast with it. Due to poor vision, I had to mount a scope on mine and a 4-12X40 fits fine. You have to drop the rear sight down as low as it will go, but it works. You won't go wrong with it and I've had mine for years and have no plans to get rid of it. It's just too much fun.

Happy Shooting