Thinking about getting into BP hunting- help!

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Several years ago I found myself in the same situation as you are in now. I did a lot of research and reading but due to my lack of finances, I bought a CVA Wolf in a kit. It came with everything needed but powder and primers. I bought regular 209 primers and Triple 7 50/50 pellets. It came with 295 grn. powerbelt bullets and when I got home I loaded it up and killed a few water-filled milk jugs. Very impressive to say the least! The first deer I killed with it was a 10 pt. I have been hooked on it ever since then, often carrying it during regular deer season. I have killed 9-10 deer with it, all dropped in their tracks. I still use 295grn.Powerbelt bullets and three 50 grn. pellets and don't intend to change that, it just plain works for me!
 
I know nothing about the rifles that load one at a time from the wrong end, but I understand the basic principle and the fact that it can give me more flexibility in hunting and potentially more days in the stand. So, I'm looking to possibly expand the hunting arsenal. These are what I found on clearance at Wally World:
1. 50 caliber buckstalker, cerakote- $139 (was $196)
2. 50 caliber Pursuit G4, stainless- $199 (was $279)
3. 50 caliber buckstalker w/ 24" barrel, and 3-9 scope (not sure what scope) $169 (was $224)
4. CVA 50 caliber CVA PR2110 Wolf- $124 (was $167)
There is only a $76 difference from most expensive to least expensive, so the price really isn't that important. That considered, what would be the "best" deal? I'm looking for accuracy, reliability, and simplicity. Are there special considerations for scopes for BP guns, or can any scope do the job? I understand that some scopes are junk, but is a specific type needed? Also don't want to get into one that needs specialty components, want to be able to load common primer, powder, bullets (if that's even a concern).

Can't speak to the others, but I have a CVA Wolf that I'm quite satisfied with. It is 2" at 100 yards accurate with 385 grain Hornady Great Plains. I've heard it can shoot 1" with Powerbelts, but I've never tried 'em. The one thing I don't like about the gun is the receiver is zamak. I hate zamak in guns, but as there is no stress on the frame, everything is contained within the barrel, I see little reason to worry and it has held up for 8 years now. It's 150 grain BP rated and I shoot 70 grains of fffg rated 777 in it. It gives me 1800 fps with that 385 grain pill. I've had a Bushnell Banner on it for quite a while and it's held up well. Bushnell, in my experience, is one of the strongest of the economy scopes. I can tell ya this, I wouldn't put a Simmons on it. Go with something like a Nikon, Burris, Leupold, etc and you have no worries. The gun doesn't kick any harder than my 7 mag, put it that way.
 
Be prepared to spend a little more time at the range! :thumbup: It takes some time to test loads and find what works for you. It makes for a nice, relaxed range session. The Buckstalker is a good gun.
 
Here are some general factors to consider. Yes I own both modern and traditional ML rifles, and traditional shotguns, and I for the past ten years have exclusively hunted with traditional black powder arms.

You want to extend your hunting season. Nothing wrong with that. That's what got me started in black powder hunting. I was in college and by the time I got home for Christmas break (it was Christmas break back in those days instead of Winter Break today) the only deer season open was black powder, AND if you wanted to participate in that season, you had a caplock or a flintlock since inlines weren't invented yet. ;)

Inlines do look appealing since they resemble modern rifles, but this can be slightly deceiving. Inlines when they come with open sights, the sights are crude so you will need a scope. An inline like the traditional muzzle loaders will need for you to work up an accurate load. It's a bit more involved than a modern rifle where you can go to the range with a few rounds from different ammo makers and see what shoots well. Plus the cost of the rounds tends to be on par with modern ammunition in many cases. :confused:

One common inline mistake is fellows think it's as weather secure as a modern cartridge rifle. They are better than flintlocks, but pretty much on par with traditional caplocks when it comes to rainy, damp situations. Most fellows with an inline use a black powder substitute since they think it burns "cleaner", and some do, but the substitutes also are tougher to ignite and so damp weather causes problems too. AND if you want to shoot any kind of ML, expect a few minutes of a dirty, stinky cleanup. It's not that bad.

Another common mistake (imho) is fellows try to duplicate a modern hunting round with their inline. So you see these folks launching a projectile with somewhere between 100 to 150 grains of powder. :what: You wrote, " Pretty sure those guys would have gotten Rem 700's in belted magnums if they had been available." Probably true, but they weren't available and more important for you, don't try to make your inline perform like that. The tech is limited, even if you buy something that looks like a bolt action and is stainless steel. That's the whole point of the extra season, because the tech is limited, it's not simply grabbing a different rifle and harvesting venison. There is more to it. ;) So..., you're going to need to work up a moderate load, that is very accurate out to 100 yards, and I'd recommend you use a loose powder and a powder measure to do this and forgo the large pellets. This is going to take a little range time and some $ since the projectiles aren't cheap. Plus you'll need to learn to get the animal in range if you're used to farther shots. Your're only going to get one shot, and making that single shot count is the whole key to ML hunting. Now since I see you're in the Florida Panhandle, you probably have close shots at 100 yards or less, so in that case you're good to go. :thumbup:

So in short, loose powder, try several different projectiles to get the one that works well, and even then shoot at the range more than just sighting in the scope, since loading and handling the primer are a bit more involved than simply putting a round into the rifle and closing the breech. Get to know your rifle.

AND after all that, Good Luck Sir! We'd love to see photos of your hunt.

PS you might consider next year, perhaps getting a traditional caplock, and shoot patched round ball out to 100 yards. It's way cheaper, and much less impact on your shoulder, you can mount a scope on a traditional caplock if you wish, AND the deer are just as dead. If my flintlock can launch a .530 round ball through a deer at 110 yards, it wouldn't know the difference if I had launched a sabot round through it at the same distance. :D

LD
Here are some general factors to consider. Yes I own both modern and traditional ML rifles, and traditional shotguns, and I for the past ten years have exclusively hunted with traditional black powder arms.

You want to extend your hunting season. Nothing wrong with that. That's what got me started in black powder hunting. I was in college and by the time I got home for Christmas break (it was Christmas break back in those days instead of Winter Break today) the only deer season open was black powder, AND if you wanted to participate in that season, you had a caplock or a flintlock since inlines weren't invented yet. ;)

Inlines do look appealing since they resemble modern rifles, but this can be slightly deceiving. Inlines when they come with open sights, the sights are crude so you will need a scope. An inline like the traditional muzzle loaders will need for you to work up an accurate load. It's a bit more involved than a modern rifle where you can go to the range with a few rounds from different ammo makers and see what shoots well. Plus the cost of the rounds tends to be on par with modern ammunition in many cases. :confused:

One common inline mistake is fellows think it's as weather secure as a modern cartridge rifle. They are better than flintlocks, but pretty much on par with traditional caplocks when it comes to rainy, damp situations. Most fellows with an inline use a black powder substitute since they think it burns "cleaner", and some do, but the substitutes also are tougher to ignite and so damp weather causes problems too. AND if you want to shoot any kind of ML, expect a few minutes of a dirty, stinky cleanup. It's not that bad.

Another common mistake (imho) is fellows try to duplicate a modern hunting round with their inline. So you see these folks launching a projectile with somewhere between 100 to 150 grains of powder. :what: You wrote, " Pretty sure those guys would have gotten Rem 700's in belted magnums if they had been available." Probably true, but they weren't available and more important for you, don't try to make your inline perform like that. The tech is limited, even if you buy something that looks like a bolt action and is stainless steel. That's the whole point of the extra season, because the tech is limited, it's not simply grabbing a different rifle and harvesting venison. There is more to it. ;) So..., you're going to need to work up a moderate load, that is very accurate out to 100 yards, and I'd recommend you use a loose powder and a powder measure to do this and forgo the large pellets. This is going to take a little range time and some $ since the projectiles aren't cheap. Plus you'll need to learn to get the animal in range if you're used to farther shots. Your're only going to get one shot, and making that single shot count is the whole key to ML hunting. Now since I see you're in the Florida Panhandle, you probably have close shots at 100 yards or less, so in that case you're good to go. :thumbup:

So in short, loose powder, try several different projectiles to get the one that works well, and even then shoot at the range more than just sighting in the scope, since loading and handling the primer are a bit more involved than simply putting a round into the rifle and closing the breech. Get to know your rifle.

AND after all that, Good Luck Sir! We'd love to see photos of your hunt.

PS you might consider next year, perhaps getting a traditional caplock, and shoot patched round ball out to 100 yards. It's way cheaper, and much less impact on your shoulder, you can mount a scope on a traditional caplock if you wish, AND the deer are just as dead. If my flintlock can launch a .530 round ball through a deer at 110 yards, it wouldn't know the difference if I had launched a sabot round through it at the same distance. :D

LD
Loyalist Dave,

I was just wondering what your powder load consisted of for shooting a .530 patched round ball through the deer at 110 yards. I own and hunt with an older Uberti Santa Fe Hawken, .53 cal. With a 1:66 twist. I shoot the .520 Hornady in it. Thank you for your help with this
 
I used 70 grains of 3Fg, GOEX, standard. She was a big doe and my 38" Colerain barrel is sighted in at 100 yards. I thought she was at 80 yards because of her size. I paced it off and got more than 100 yards, and I called my buddy who owns the land and he brought out his lazer range finder (he's into gadgets, I'm into the traditional stuff). He got right at 110 yards from where I was, inside a hedge, to where she was standing when hit. Now granted, a broadside shot, and I got lucky the ball went between ribs on both sides.

LD
 
I've hunted with a traditional flintlock rifle during Pennsylvania's late season and found the primitive ignition system to be frustrating with in-climate weather. But it makes one appreciate what our ancestors had to deal with. In contrast, the CVA Wolf is thoroughly modern and will provide your easiest hunt experience with a muzzle loader. YouTube videos will show you how to load, shoot, clean, and maintain this rifle.

Good hunting to you.
TR
 
Not to ressurrect a necrothread, but I'm also getting into black powder hunting. Here in my state (NC) the regs are fairly open as to what gun can be used and you should check on the regs in your state. In my case, the 1st gun of choice will be an 1863 Sharps Carbine 54cal and the next choice a Parker Hale Musketoon 58cal with a target barrel. I shoot North South Skirmish and many of the others in the assoc also hunt with their target arms. Both of my guns will stack bullets into one big ragged hole at 50yds so if I don't start shaking too much the guns are certainly capable.
 
I highly recommend the CVA Wolf for your purposes. Traditionals are great for the traditionalist, but modern 209 primed inlines are the WAY TO GO for the guy just looking to extend the hunting season. You can get a BH209 breech block for that gun and you're practically shooting smokeless. It's no corrosive and doesn't require brushing the bore between shots to maintain accuracy, but you'll still need to clean it after firing as there's lots of smoke. You use traditional smokeless chemicals like Hoppe's Number 9 for clean up, though. Takes soapy water to clean up black powder or other substitutes and it's messy and needs drying. I usually shoot WD40 down the bore to make sure the water is out of my Hawken. At least my Hawken has a chrome bore.

The inline Wolf is like a .50/90 sharps without the brass. With a 1-32 rifling twist, it loves the heavy minies. It shoots the full caliber stuff like powerbelts and the saboted pistol bullets well, but I really like the heavy Minies. They do get the job done. A Powerbelt will extend your range past 100 yards, though, I've heard 200, though I haven't played with it. It has a good BC compared to a Minie.

As a hunter, you shouldn't give a flip what Jim Bridger used, or Daniel Boone if you wanna consider flinters. I'm quite sure Bridger et al would be using .30-06s if they'd had the option. This gun you want is only to comply with season regulations, right? Now, some states REQUIRE sidelocks for their "primitive weapons" season and even percussion cap ignition which sux with the subs you'll likely end up shooting in a sidelock due to the unavailability of real black powder. 209 ignition in the Wolf takes care of ignition with ANY of the subs. I shoot 777 in mine. I like my traditional rifles, but the Wolf is BY FAR superior to either of my sidelocks, hands down, no competition, so long as it's legal in your state.

One thing I'll say about the Wolf, what I don't like in its construction, it has a zamak receiver. Now, I normally HATE zamak in a weapon and will not buy zamak. BUT, in the wolf, that receiver is not stressed by pressure. The gun can handle 150 grains equivalent of BP, though I shoot 90 in mine and find it more accurate and plenty powerful. All the pressure in the gun is contained in the barrel, no load on the receiver. Mines 8 years old and shows no signs of ever giving up. It's so accurate, I just love to shoot it at 100 yards. I have a 3x9x40 scope on it, too, which really helps about twilight or dusk in the deep, dark woods, especially with old eyes.

I'll probably try to shoot something, finally, after 25 years, with my Hawken Hunter Carbine this coming season. I haven't hunted with it, don't like the iron sights. I've already taken something with the Wolf. But, our muzzleloader season is AFTER the gun season here and most of the deer have stopped moving by then, so I doubt I'll even see anything in the "special season". :rolleyes: I took the one deer I shot with the Wolf in rifle season, really ain't giving up a lot with it considering it's scoped and accurate as most modern rifles, not that my Hawken isn't accurate, it is, so long as you can see the sights.
 
FL-NC, what I mean is, you don't go to a burger joint to get lobster, neither should you go to Wally World to get your first muzzleloader. Why? Well, from what you said I must assume that you know next to nothing about muzzleloaders, don't worry, we all started where you are. At Wally World it is very unlikely that you will find anyone who knows any more than you about these rifles

Actually, In New England, MacDonald's has a seasonal lobster roll that is quite good. Course that's a region where Walmart most likely sells more smoke poles than anyone else, the person behind the counter is also a hunter and most of the buyers aren't interested in black powder history or target shooting or, heck they just want to take advantage of an extended hunting season. A couple of ranging shots, a few more weeks in the woods and the gun is put away for the rest of the season. A lot more of them folks than "forum experts".
 
There is black powder hunting and there is primitive weapons hunting. You decide which you want to do and go for it. I used to complain about the "new fangled" dad gummed fake muzzle loaders as I was, am, and always will be a traditional muzzle loader with one small concession to modernity when I use a blasted cap lock instead of my beloved flinter. I tried a modern one once, it shot well, but I hated to fight the crust ring when I used pyrodex or 777 and sabot bullets. Gave it to my son and immediately apologized to my John Rupp copy which, being a good Pennsylvania gun, it accepted. My only complaint about it, or misgiving, is that I made it a 45 and not a 50.
I still prefer to sling on my possibles bag and horn, heft the long rifle and stalk deer on my little midwest farm. I don't score as often as son John with the scoped inline but I think my venison tastes better with a patched lead ball and real black powder flavor added.
Have fun, there is room for all. Just don't forget to clean it. Every time. We used to say clean the day you shoot, then once a week for a month then once a year til you shoot again. (hopefully you shoot often.)
Our "real" muzzle loader season is only a few days but you can use them during shotgun seasons with the proper tag.
Farmer gives good advice from the south part of our blue state.
 
There is black powder hunting and there is primitive weapons hunting. You decide which you want to do and go for it. I used to complain about the "new fangled" dad gummed fake muzzle loaders as I was, am, and always will be a traditional muzzle loader with one small concession to modernity when I use a blasted cap lock instead of my beloved flinter. I tried a modern one once, it shot well, but I hated to fight the crust ring when I used pyrodex or 777 and sabot bullets. Gave it to my son and immediately apologized to my John Rupp copy which, being a good Pennsylvania gun, it accepted. My only complaint about it, or misgiving, is that I made it a 45 and not a 50.
I still prefer to sling on my possibles bag and horn, heft the long rifle and stalk deer on my little midwest farm. I don't score as often as son John with the scoped inline but I think my venison tastes better with a patched lead ball and real black powder flavor added.
Have fun, there is room for all. Just don't forget to clean it. Every time. We used to say clean the day you shoot, then once a week for a month then once a year til you shoot again. (hopefully you shoot often.)
Our "real" muzzle loader season is only a few days but you can use them during shotgun seasons with the proper tag.
Farmer gives good advice from the south part of our blue state.
Well said.
My thoughts exactly!
 
My parents taught me. that to stand tall. it is not necessary to push others down but a lively polite discussion of the pros and cons of various models allows everyone to learn with out buying and trying everything. On the other hand its is more fun to just buy everything!!!!
 
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