atlanticfire
Member
I second this. Have been looking at the armalite and thinking Im going to get it.
Thinking of getting a Barrett, is it really worth it?
- Thread starter ckone
- Start date
- Status
"Is it worth it?" Well, how long is a piece of string? Since your only use will be recreational shooting, it's an inherently subjective question, with no right or wrong answer.
FWIW, I am a reasonably experienced hiker. I don't know about you but my hiking enjoyment tends to be inversely proportional to the weight I have to carry. Most any .30 calibre hunting or varmint-style rifle would be a lot lighter and handier than a Barrett, while still possessing sufficient accuracy for reasonable long-range casual target practice.
If you're seriously planning to bring along the rifle on camping trips, your enjoyment of same might be reduced by constant concern that the Barrett might be stolen while you're not looking. Something to think about.
It's unnecessary to have the biggest, baddest, most expensive toy to have a lot of fun. For casual plinking, a high-quality scoped .22 firing at ranges of up to 300 yards will provide plenty of enjoyment at a fraction of the cost. For that matter, you can have essentially the same experience in your own backyard with a precision air rifle: see "Minisniping".
texas chase
Member
Shot a .338 Lapua this weekend
My father got an AR-30 in .338 Lapua and I got a chance to shoot it this weekend. It was my dad, me, and one other guy zero'ing his deer rifle. My dad shot the AR and the other guy and I looked at each other... the concussion is pretty strong. It has power to say the least. However, the most impressive thing about it was that when I shot it, it felt almost no different that shooting an .223 AR. The muzzle brake is that good - its amazing!
The weekend before last he sighted it in at 200 yards... and then at 400 yds... and then 600... and finally at 800 yrds before he ran out of room. He was getting 6 - 8 inch groups at that distance. And he's still working on an optimal load for it.
My father got an AR-30 in .338 Lapua and I got a chance to shoot it this weekend. It was my dad, me, and one other guy zero'ing his deer rifle. My dad shot the AR and the other guy and I looked at each other... the concussion is pretty strong. It has power to say the least. However, the most impressive thing about it was that when I shot it, it felt almost no different that shooting an .223 AR. The muzzle brake is that good - its amazing!
The weekend before last he sighted it in at 200 yards... and then at 400 yds... and then 600... and finally at 800 yrds before he ran out of room. He was getting 6 - 8 inch groups at that distance. And he's still working on an optimal load for it.
General Geoff
Member
With attitudes like this, we don't even need enemies.
Big Caliber Sledgehammers
All,
I don't want to get into how high can I scratch the post vs. how high you can, etc. that's not my concern.
I want to offer a subjective point or two. (any reference to equated numbers are approximate, not exacts - I don't want to get into that either - just waxing a thought or two).
I have the Rem 700 in 338 Rem Ultra Mag with a stainless 24" bbl. Call it a 'average man's long range cannon.' It's an inexpensive way to get in the door and learn to handle big, heavy hitting calibers. Ballistically it's capable of doing many things out of the box with small tweaks. It doesn't have to have a custom, hand lapped barrel although that'd be certainly nice, and it doesn't have to have a fancy polished firing pin and heavier springs to enhance locktime. A good trigger is a must and some fine-tuned ammo is very helpful. Probably best suited for someone that's reloading because you can only go so far with over-the-counter stuff. But it will do on a budget and in a pinch - and for minor costs, you can 'upgrade' it.
Now, my bolt action doesn't have any fancy stuff, just a standard laminate stock and 'good' consumer grade 4x12 optics. It's not the 'Sendero', just a 3rnd BDL off the showroom floor.
If I were to change anything, I'd probably add a 30" lilja stainless bbl to it, and may be a jewell trigger, but probably not in that order. I might then entertain optics to test the capabilities of the lilja barrel with NightForce 12x42 NXS optics. But if wishes were water, the desert would be green.
I have it loaded right now wiht 225g SP over about 86g of I4831. This pushes it pretty fast - 2850 or so, guessing. this is a warm load, but still has room to spare (I think I could hop it up to about 3,000 fps).
currently, w/ 300yd zero, -33" at 500, -109" at 700, -349" at 1000... That's about 1660ftlbs at 500yds and 650ftlbs at 1000yds of impact energy. Plenty of poop to knock most things over.
It shoots ok right now, not as good as I want - it's not MOA right now, but it is definately 'hunting worthy' - but range time, and the punishing recoil keep me to 'every so often' as I noodle through the 100rnds or so I have right now.
I have the estimated recoil at around 45ftlbs. You squeeze it off and it's like someone whalloped you with a 3lb hammer from 10ft away. (as a note, a 30-06 springfield / Garand have about 12lbs of recoil energy and the 223 has an estimated 6 to 8 ftlbs of recoil). The chicken fairies come out after about 6 rounds with the 338RUM.
I'm currently working loads for it in 300 Sierra MK over RL25. At max / redline it's 2750fps in the book. That's nearly 60ftlbs of recoil. You definately don't want to lean back against a tree when it goes boom.
For costs:
50 - 300g Sierra MK $35 to $40
1lb RL 25 $22 to $30 (note, at 86g loads, you only get about 80 rounds / lb)
1000 Win Mag Primers $25 to $35
Do the math, and it's about $125 per 100 rounds of 'home grown' which afford you control over many variables.
At $1.50 a pop (factoring in brass life @ 8 reloads to end-of-life), you not only will feel the recoil, but your wallet will ache after a bit, especially if you're like me and have to drive 30mi each way to the range in a truck that takes 5 gallons to go and come back.
Using some ballistic magical software I should get aproximately the following (for my conditions, 250ft at 50% at 70deg):
300yd zero, it looks like I should be 28" low at 500, 85" low at 700, and 239 (~20ft) low at 1000. At 1500yds it's still supersonic (1300+ fps) but the elevation is 750" low (that's 62.5ft for most of us). Impact energy at 1500 should be about 1150 ftlbs.
When was the last time you aimed at a 18" target and elevated your rifle 30inches high let alone 62 ft? This isn't 'daylight the top of the horns' for a lung shot kind of thing.
Not only do you need a handy cannon to 'reach out and touch the target' (and may be knock it over) but you need specialized glass that have adjustable target/mil turrets. You need to know how to use it too. You also need something that can take the abuse - standard glass from the average consumer makers probably won't do, or won't last. Looking at "NightForce" optics for example, for 12x42 glass, you're looking from $1000 to $2300 for glass just so you can see your target and know that it won't crumble when you pull the trigger, repeatedly. Handy elevation and windage dials sure beat my kentucky windage methods.
Now, my average consumer 4x12 glass won't cut it much past about 700 (or my eyes can't), and the temperature and wind are probably guaranteed different over in the next county - could be raining and I'd be hard pressed to see it... and I'm not going to go out soon and spend 2x or 3x the cost of my rifle on glass to see to the man on the moon, not just yet...
Without a spotter, a lot of experience, a lot of reload time and bench rest time to find a reload that minimizes the harmonic vibration for that one particular gun, a cheat sheet for MOA elevations at various distances (or computer) I think it would be hard for many folks to hit a milk jug at 500yds consistently, let alone a small 'dorm refridgerator' at 1500. That assumes that they are shooting on a clear blue-bird day with no wind and mild temps...
Why would I want a spotter? Well if you can recover in a half of a second and see thru the smoke from 60lbs of recoil, to see that 1000yd shot hit in 1 and a half seconds, you're much bigger, stronger and faster than my 200lb frame can muster. I'm still seeing chickens when I'm lining up for my second shot with a spotter. By the the end of a 12 shot string, I'm 'batman' and definately need a snickers bar.
I really don't think most folks can make the leap from 'plinking' with a 22 or even a full day of 223 shooting hundreds of rounds out of their favorite toy, to be able to consistently hold and squeeze repeatedly, into groups that these things are capable of... combine that with the costs that way exceed available 223 ammo and equipment (also good for out to 500+ as well), and it takes a very special desire to:
1) invest in the equipment
2) learn to manage the recoil and still pull the trigger consistently
3) invest in the time to spend at the range
4) invest in the ammo
5) learn to manage the recoil, and still pull the trigger consistently
6) did I mention, learn to manage the recoil and have trigger control?
As my final thought - I don't want to discourage anyone from learning to hold a cannon and manage it's recoil (hmmm).
I think we'd all like to have a lot more knowlegeable folks out there if we could get a few more on board... but don't have expectations that you can grab it out of the box, run to Big-5 and grab some ammo, run down to the nearest rice field, setup a ladder climb to the top and shoot to the other end of the county and hit a silver dollar 7 times in a row...
btw: have you tried finding 338Lapua or the others locally? It's hard to come by in my neighborhood. that's part of why I have the Rem Ultra... and it's $60/20 when you can...
All,
I don't want to get into how high can I scratch the post vs. how high you can, etc. that's not my concern.
I want to offer a subjective point or two. (any reference to equated numbers are approximate, not exacts - I don't want to get into that either - just waxing a thought or two).
I have the Rem 700 in 338 Rem Ultra Mag with a stainless 24" bbl. Call it a 'average man's long range cannon.' It's an inexpensive way to get in the door and learn to handle big, heavy hitting calibers. Ballistically it's capable of doing many things out of the box with small tweaks. It doesn't have to have a custom, hand lapped barrel although that'd be certainly nice, and it doesn't have to have a fancy polished firing pin and heavier springs to enhance locktime. A good trigger is a must and some fine-tuned ammo is very helpful. Probably best suited for someone that's reloading because you can only go so far with over-the-counter stuff. But it will do on a budget and in a pinch - and for minor costs, you can 'upgrade' it.
Now, my bolt action doesn't have any fancy stuff, just a standard laminate stock and 'good' consumer grade 4x12 optics. It's not the 'Sendero', just a 3rnd BDL off the showroom floor.
If I were to change anything, I'd probably add a 30" lilja stainless bbl to it, and may be a jewell trigger, but probably not in that order. I might then entertain optics to test the capabilities of the lilja barrel with NightForce 12x42 NXS optics. But if wishes were water, the desert would be green.
I have it loaded right now wiht 225g SP over about 86g of I4831. This pushes it pretty fast - 2850 or so, guessing. this is a warm load, but still has room to spare (I think I could hop it up to about 3,000 fps).
currently, w/ 300yd zero, -33" at 500, -109" at 700, -349" at 1000... That's about 1660ftlbs at 500yds and 650ftlbs at 1000yds of impact energy. Plenty of poop to knock most things over.
It shoots ok right now, not as good as I want - it's not MOA right now, but it is definately 'hunting worthy' - but range time, and the punishing recoil keep me to 'every so often' as I noodle through the 100rnds or so I have right now.
I have the estimated recoil at around 45ftlbs. You squeeze it off and it's like someone whalloped you with a 3lb hammer from 10ft away. (as a note, a 30-06 springfield / Garand have about 12lbs of recoil energy and the 223 has an estimated 6 to 8 ftlbs of recoil). The chicken fairies come out after about 6 rounds with the 338RUM.
I'm currently working loads for it in 300 Sierra MK over RL25. At max / redline it's 2750fps in the book. That's nearly 60ftlbs of recoil. You definately don't want to lean back against a tree when it goes boom.
For costs:
50 - 300g Sierra MK $35 to $40
1lb RL 25 $22 to $30 (note, at 86g loads, you only get about 80 rounds / lb)
1000 Win Mag Primers $25 to $35
Do the math, and it's about $125 per 100 rounds of 'home grown' which afford you control over many variables.
At $1.50 a pop (factoring in brass life @ 8 reloads to end-of-life), you not only will feel the recoil, but your wallet will ache after a bit, especially if you're like me and have to drive 30mi each way to the range in a truck that takes 5 gallons to go and come back.
Using some ballistic magical software I should get aproximately the following (for my conditions, 250ft at 50% at 70deg):
300yd zero, it looks like I should be 28" low at 500, 85" low at 700, and 239 (~20ft) low at 1000. At 1500yds it's still supersonic (1300+ fps) but the elevation is 750" low (that's 62.5ft for most of us). Impact energy at 1500 should be about 1150 ftlbs.
When was the last time you aimed at a 18" target and elevated your rifle 30inches high let alone 62 ft? This isn't 'daylight the top of the horns' for a lung shot kind of thing.
Not only do you need a handy cannon to 'reach out and touch the target' (and may be knock it over) but you need specialized glass that have adjustable target/mil turrets. You need to know how to use it too. You also need something that can take the abuse - standard glass from the average consumer makers probably won't do, or won't last. Looking at "NightForce" optics for example, for 12x42 glass, you're looking from $1000 to $2300 for glass just so you can see your target and know that it won't crumble when you pull the trigger, repeatedly. Handy elevation and windage dials sure beat my kentucky windage methods.
Now, my average consumer 4x12 glass won't cut it much past about 700 (or my eyes can't), and the temperature and wind are probably guaranteed different over in the next county - could be raining and I'd be hard pressed to see it... and I'm not going to go out soon and spend 2x or 3x the cost of my rifle on glass to see to the man on the moon, not just yet...
Without a spotter, a lot of experience, a lot of reload time and bench rest time to find a reload that minimizes the harmonic vibration for that one particular gun, a cheat sheet for MOA elevations at various distances (or computer) I think it would be hard for many folks to hit a milk jug at 500yds consistently, let alone a small 'dorm refridgerator' at 1500. That assumes that they are shooting on a clear blue-bird day with no wind and mild temps...
Why would I want a spotter? Well if you can recover in a half of a second and see thru the smoke from 60lbs of recoil, to see that 1000yd shot hit in 1 and a half seconds, you're much bigger, stronger and faster than my 200lb frame can muster. I'm still seeing chickens when I'm lining up for my second shot with a spotter. By the the end of a 12 shot string, I'm 'batman' and definately need a snickers bar.
I really don't think most folks can make the leap from 'plinking' with a 22 or even a full day of 223 shooting hundreds of rounds out of their favorite toy, to be able to consistently hold and squeeze repeatedly, into groups that these things are capable of... combine that with the costs that way exceed available 223 ammo and equipment (also good for out to 500+ as well), and it takes a very special desire to:
1) invest in the equipment
2) learn to manage the recoil and still pull the trigger consistently
3) invest in the time to spend at the range
4) invest in the ammo
5) learn to manage the recoil, and still pull the trigger consistently
6) did I mention, learn to manage the recoil and have trigger control?
As my final thought - I don't want to discourage anyone from learning to hold a cannon and manage it's recoil (hmmm).
I think we'd all like to have a lot more knowlegeable folks out there if we could get a few more on board... but don't have expectations that you can grab it out of the box, run to Big-5 and grab some ammo, run down to the nearest rice field, setup a ladder climb to the top and shoot to the other end of the county and hit a silver dollar 7 times in a row...
btw: have you tried finding 338Lapua or the others locally? It's hard to come by in my neighborhood. that's part of why I have the Rem Ultra... and it's $60/20 when you can...
I fired three AP rounds through an AR-50, and it was a tremendous hoot! I believe I hit the 1"x18"x18" steel plate at 600 yards too, there was three holes in it anyway. Great fun, but not what I'd consider practical. I'll stick with my 1943 M1 and a couple cans of surplus M2 ball, thank you.
Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
member
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2007
- Messages
- 13,146
Good questions all - my lowly .02 of opinions:
Caliber: Either but personally I'd go .50 BMG, not .416 - if you're going that big, may as well go all the way to a .500 rifle. Unless you live in MA, MD, HI, IL, or some other socialist state who is likely to follow Calif's lead and ban .50s at some point - in that case, get the .416.
Find the gun club with the longest range in your area, and join it. 600 is better than 400. 1000 is better than 600 (for *really* stretching its legs).
That depends. You just have to take it on a range-by-range basis and call and inquire as to whether .50 BMG is allowed. *Most* ranges do allow .50 BMG, at least around here, even the ones that do NOT allow full-auto.
As mentioned, a club with a long range, or if you live in the remote desert area of Nevada, Utah, etc., you can find places to shoot in the wilderness that won't harm anyone. Just please pick up your litter and be a good gun citizen.
My opinion, no way, no how. Now I'm pretty imaginative and a bit paranoid on zombie and red dawn scenarios, and I cannot imagine that you'd EVER need a follow up shot faster than you could reload manually for any realistic used even in a societal meltdown situation with a .50 BMG, cripessake.
Have no idea, other than to say that a .338 lapua is an intermediate step with a bit lighter rifle to lug around and a little cheaper to shoot, if you don't want to go all the way to .416 or .50.
I can't say for sure, because I don't have one, but my view is yes having a .50 is marginally worth it if you can afford to feed it, for the fun factor. BUT, having a *Barrett* in particular in my view is NOT worth it - great guns, but for $3K you can get an Armalite AR50 or several others that shoot quite well - how is a $6-$10K Barrett *that* much better? It's better, but not $3-$7K additional marginal cost better, in my book.
Caliber: Either but personally I'd go .50 BMG, not .416 - if you're going that big, may as well go all the way to a .500 rifle. Unless you live in MA, MD, HI, IL, or some other socialist state who is likely to follow Calif's lead and ban .50s at some point - in that case, get the .416.
Find the gun club with the longest range in your area, and join it. 600 is better than 400. 1000 is better than 600 (for *really* stretching its legs).
That depends. You just have to take it on a range-by-range basis and call and inquire as to whether .50 BMG is allowed. *Most* ranges do allow .50 BMG, at least around here, even the ones that do NOT allow full-auto.
As mentioned, a club with a long range, or if you live in the remote desert area of Nevada, Utah, etc., you can find places to shoot in the wilderness that won't harm anyone. Just please pick up your litter and be a good gun citizen.
My opinion, no way, no how. Now I'm pretty imaginative and a bit paranoid on zombie and red dawn scenarios, and I cannot imagine that you'd EVER need a follow up shot faster than you could reload manually for any realistic used even in a societal meltdown situation with a .50 BMG, cripessake.
Have no idea, other than to say that a .338 lapua is an intermediate step with a bit lighter rifle to lug around and a little cheaper to shoot, if you don't want to go all the way to .416 or .50.
I can't say for sure, because I don't have one, but my view is yes having a .50 is marginally worth it if you can afford to feed it, for the fun factor. BUT, having a *Barrett* in particular in my view is NOT worth it - great guns, but for $3K you can get an Armalite AR50 or several others that shoot quite well - how is a $6-$10K Barrett *that* much better? It's better, but not $3-$7K additional marginal cost better, in my book.
Tarvis
Member
http://www.snipercentral.com/338.htm
338 Lapua for 1000 yards? You guys are smoking crack. Get a 260 Remington if you're shooting 1000 yards, you don't need a frickin' 338 Lapua for that. Shooting 1500 yards? Step up to a 300 Win Mag. 338 Lapua is effective out to 1 mile, so this 1000 yard stuff is a little more than half the effective range.
I say get a 50 before they are banned, and because they would be just as fun shooting 1000 yards as they would be 2500. I can't tell you much on the subject of "which one" but I have heard some say a bull pup is a bad idea as it put's your ears closer to the muzzle. Even with headphones on my braked 300 win mag rings my bell. My personal choice is an AR-50. You could get a 416 Barrett, but they are similar in performance and the 416 was designed to defeat the 50 cal ban. I'd get a 408 cheytac before I invested in a 416.
When it comes down to it, you have to ask yourself if you really need one. If the answer is yes, now is the time to buy one as we may not have the opportunity in the future. If it is a maybe, hold the thought for election day.
Also, remember this rifle needs a good scope as well. No point in having a rifle designed for a certain job without the proper scope that makes it possible.
338 Lapua for 1000 yards? You guys are smoking crack. Get a 260 Remington if you're shooting 1000 yards, you don't need a frickin' 338 Lapua for that. Shooting 1500 yards? Step up to a 300 Win Mag. 338 Lapua is effective out to 1 mile, so this 1000 yard stuff is a little more than half the effective range.
I say get a 50 before they are banned, and because they would be just as fun shooting 1000 yards as they would be 2500. I can't tell you much on the subject of "which one" but I have heard some say a bull pup is a bad idea as it put's your ears closer to the muzzle. Even with headphones on my braked 300 win mag rings my bell. My personal choice is an AR-50. You could get a 416 Barrett, but they are similar in performance and the 416 was designed to defeat the 50 cal ban. I'd get a 408 cheytac before I invested in a 416.
When it comes down to it, you have to ask yourself if you really need one. If the answer is yes, now is the time to buy one as we may not have the opportunity in the future. If it is a maybe, hold the thought for election day.
Also, remember this rifle needs a good scope as well. No point in having a rifle designed for a certain job without the proper scope that makes it possible.
gvnwst
Member
will this stay supersonic to 1500? maybe with 240 SMKs, but i don't think so. A 30-378 Wby would though.
not really. Ron Barrett has said many a time that the .416 was developed to improve the range and accuracy compared to the fifty, without having so much recoil.
Zundfolge
Member
The new Barrett 98B is just dead sexy.
http://www.98bravo.com/
And for hitting paper waaaaaaaaay out there its going to be every bit as much fun as .50BMG but without the price tag (and fear of bans).
Of course it's $4500 naked ... the BORS equipped Leupold is another $2700 (but probably worth it). But I figure if you're even considering any Barrett you're not going to be spooked by the price.
http://www.98bravo.com/
And for hitting paper waaaaaaaaay out there its going to be every bit as much fun as .50BMG but without the price tag (and fear of bans).
Of course it's $4500 naked ... the BORS equipped Leupold is another $2700 (but probably worth it). But I figure if you're even considering any Barrett you're not going to be spooked by the price.
gvnwst
Member
the model 99 costs $3,990.... But thats .50...
ckone: we need input of what you think of the suggestions please.
ckone: we need input of what you think of the suggestions please.
mickman
Member
big 50's really are fun. reaching out and knocking the wholly
out of a steel target has a cool factor of indescribeable magnitude.
p.s. also love my .308
out of a steel target has a cool factor of indescribeable magnitude. p.s. also love my .308
woodybrighton
member
hitting out plus 1500yds takes an immense amount of skill and practice and kit .338 and .50 might be fun to shot on a short range up to you if you can justify the cash for that.
hiking with a barrett perfectly enjoyable activity right up there with finding a damp
hedge to hole up in for a week
hiking with a barrett perfectly enjoyable activity right up there with finding a damp
hedge to hole up in for a week
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