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This is going to sound weird but...

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Brutuskend, Nov 13, 2020.

  1. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    Do you use Dextrin?
    I was reading a thread about different binders where someone posted that he does not use any binder and gets some durable grains.
    Is that possible?

    "What is wrong with dextrin? I don't use any binder and I get pretty darn durable grains. Hard enough to hurt my fingers when breaking up clumps and have never had a need for harder BP grains." --->>> See Post #15 https://www.amateurpyro.com/forums/topic/12268-granulating-black-powder/
     
  2. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    I dont use dextrin...but i have when i first experimented with making powder. Dextrin is only needed if you dont corn your grains, like if you wet your "green meal" and "screen" it to get grains. To not use a binder you need to compress the powder into a hard puck before you can corn it...this makes the grains hard enough without a binder. Extreme compression makes the powder and ingredients compress very hard and dont break up when shook around. Basically like store bought powder....it has no binders and is made by compression. Without the ingredients being compressed together into a solid mass then it will break apart easily and back into dust. Really good powder can be made just by using a binder and "screening" wet to make grains. The grains will be solid but the powder will be lighter weight than corned/store bought powder...so measuring by weight is better than using volume. But i prefer my powder to weight about the same that the volume scale measures...so 20 grains in my volume scale when poured out on a digital scale will measure about 20 grains give or take a .5-1.0 grains. If i dont compress my powder and use a binder and push wet through a screen to get grains then my powder in the volume scale will be 20 grains but on thw digital scale might say 13-16 grains depending on charcoal used. Besides i get better performance when i compress/corn. For instance if i ball mill a batch and half gets compressed/corned and the other half add a binder and screen ...then weigh out 20 grains of each....the corned and compressed powder will outperform the binder and screened powder even though they weigh the same. Although some people have had the complete opposite results in a muzzleloader using larger loads due to some thinking the added air/oxygen in the grains helps it burn.
     
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  3. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    Well I have a press on the way, so I guess when it gets here I will continue with my experiments.

    Now where did that Egor get off to??

    BTW. I mixed a small batch with some isipropyl alcohol that I got for my sore old body. It has menthol and capsicum in it, so it nothing else, it makes it smell kinda nice. ;) The parts that granulated well seems to work fine, the small grains seem to burn more like a rocket motor.

    Edit. Once dried well, it burns GREAT!
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
  4. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    I haven't used dextrin yet, I also read about using red gum. I also saw several people talking about using sugar to make black powder. Ok, I am not going to replace one of the ingredients with SUGAR, but what about using sugar as a binder? Anyone tried this??
     
  5. PWC

    PWC Member

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    Stay with the Cast Boolets forum experts. Do what Fly says and stay away from "fireworks" sites and operators. You aren't making fireworks.
     
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  6. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    I second what PWC says. There is sooo much to go over. Go over to castboolits...and Fly is a great member to listen to and wont steer you wrong. I got my puck making die from him...hes a retired tool and die maker. Great guy and very knowledgeable
     
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  7. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    Got my press yesterday. It is a press made for making "hash". Seems to work well for the price. Less then $20.00.

    20201121_140405.jpg
     
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  8. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Dunno if that will apply enough pressure to make the ingredients "plasticize" into eachother. You want there to be so much pressure that when broken down to grain size that the grains dont fall apart back to dust if the grains get shaken around roughly. I use a bottle jack and make the disks very thin. Like 1/16-1/8 of an inch thin. That way the disks break easier in order to make chunks small enough to break in a ceramic coffee grinder to make grain sizes pieces. They should be very hard like ceramic. But i think ur method will do just great if you add a binder like 1%
     
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  9. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    Where do you find your dextrin?
     
  10. woodnbow
    • Contributing Member

    woodnbow Contributing Member

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    Kid, you’re looking for a couple of tons of pressure there right?
     
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  11. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Mr.woodnbow yes sir you need tons of pressure. Bottle jack works just great. Some folks have tried an arbor press with some satisfactory results. But bottle jack with frame is best. Harbor frieght has them cheap. Dextrin is available cheap online. Ebay and Amazon.
     
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  12. PWC

    PWC Member

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    I believe Fly uses a Harbor Freight 20 ton "A" frame press and bottle jack and his own dies to make the "puck". Under pressure it should just barely leak water, any more than that and the meal is really too wet and may ooze around the die's piston.

    Let dry and break up into chunks then feed onto a coffee grinder with CERAMIC NOT STEEL TEETH OR BLADES. Screens are a available for 2f, 3f or 4f but I don't remenber the mesh size.

    Anyone looking to make their own black will be best served to go to the cast boolets/muzzle loading/my black powder website and take a large cup of coffee and sandwich and read, especially what Fly says. He has worked in the industry and fireworks industry. Believe him when he says this black powder is not fireworks. It is safer.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  13. PWC

    PWC Member

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    Black powder should always be measured weight by volume. If you want to use by weight, then use a BP measure to get a load recommended by the rifle mfgr. then dump on a scale. For example; you dump 90 gr by VOLUME from a BP measure on a calibated scale and it weighs 85 gr by WEIGHT. When you use your homemade use 85 gr by weight.

    Screened powder is less dense than corned powder and seems to grade out (2f or 3f) and finds most use in pistols. Corned powder is more dense, more active and is mostly used in rifles. I'm sure there are exceptions that will be stated.

    That is the enjoyment of BP shooting, there are new combinations to try, but stay within the ghardrails.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  14. noelf2

    noelf2 Member

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    I find the opposite to work better for me, unless I'm misunderstanding you. Corned (dense) powder gives me more power from the minimal area of a pistol cylinder chamber or short barrel. Screened non-corned powder is better in longer barrels, like rifles or shotguns, because more powder can be added in a barrel that doesn't have minimal space for it.
     
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  15. arcticap

    arcticap Member

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    That's neat!
    I googled hash press and found many variations.
    They're also called pollen or spice presses.
    They can be made of steel, aluminum, brass, zinc or a combination.
    Some of them will break after several uses.
    But one design is simply a pipe that's threaded on both ends, and is supplied with dowels to help compress small amounts.
    I had no idea that these presses even existed.
    They're apparent popularity is a sign of the times.
    Check it out: --->>> https://www.amazon.com/KW-Collectio...locphy=9003196&hvtargid=pla-944597798058&th=1

    41tbsi4a7BL._AC_.jpg
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
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  16. Brutuskend

    Brutuskend Member

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    I got mine off of amazon as well. I saw the one you showed, but figured I could get better pressure out of one with a handle. I mixed some BP with dexitrin last night and made a bunch of pucks. Once they dry well, I will see how they break down into grains. I also bought a cheese grater., and will see how that helps with making the right size grains.
     
  17. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    I use the 20 ton A frame jack as well to make my disks...and Fly made me my puck making die. He sells them for a very good price and they are virtually indestructible. Made from solid billet aluminum. Whatever you do...never use a steel (or other ferrous metal) die or puck maker or for any part of your black powder making set up. Heres the pic of my die.
    20200909_231637.jpg 20200909_231710.jpg
     
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  18. Lizard1911

    Lizard1911 Member

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    Their are freeze dryers for sale...3k to 5k. (Off topic, I hear Skittles run through one are 'Da Bomb'.)
     
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  19. TheOutlawKid

    TheOutlawKid Member

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    Mr.noelr2 i too find the same results you do. I use corned powder in my revolverd as i get more powder by weight per aloted cylinder space and the performance is always better than screened powder. But screened powder works great in a long gun where space isnt a limiting factor. All being equal...corned vs. Screened...corned always wins in my experience
     
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