This is the kind of thing that burns me up!

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Malice

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San Antonio, Houston, depending on my mood
Just to avoid confusion, as I have said before, I am much more liberal than the average gun owner. On with the story.

So, some of the kids in my town who were freshmen and sophomores (high school) when I was graduating and are now ready to do so themselves call me up today. A couple of this group have family in Iraq and they are obviously worried sick about them. So, to co-incide roughly with 9/11 and 1,000 dead Americans in the war, they decide to hold a vigil. As I am an experienced activist, they invite me to come along to help them.

The idea is, we hold up signs to passing motorists on their commute home. Then, when it gets dark, the candles come out. Pretty standard stuff. I get there and there about 20 high-school aged kids out there and a few older people there. Pretty good turn out for my heavily conservative area of Texas.

So, I help them set up, tell them what they can and cannot do, etc. Basic rules:

If someone honks and waves, or give you the thumbs up, or otherwise shows support, flash them the peace sign or wave or somthing. If someone honks angrily, shakes their fist, thumbs down, flips you the bird, yells obsenities at you, you IGNORE THEM TO AVOID CONFLICT!

We had about 8 signs. Six of them said "We love our troops: Bring them home!" or "We support our troops! (yellow ribbon drawn on)" or "We support our troops, not the war!." The other two of them were more heated, and said "Forced democracy is no democracy," and another said "7,000 wounded. 1,000 dead. No reason. Bring them home!"

As we set up all these kids tell me how worried their parents are. I chuckle, remembering when I stood on this very street corner a few years ago and my parents warned me not to trip into the street and get hit or somthing. But not this time. "My parents are worried someone will pull over and try to attack us or shoot us or somthing." There is a murmer of agreement and nodding heads. I am shocked and appaled. But I tell them not to worry about it. I however, am very worried about it. SINCE WHEN DO PARENTS HAVE TO FEAR FOR THEIR CHILDREN TO STAND UP AND SCREAM FOR WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN!?!? What kind of place is America when a parent has to warn their kids to "be carefull" at a peacefull support vigil?

So we start, we get plenty of nods and thumbs up, mostly positive stuff. There was the occassional middle finger or "#$%* Kerry!" What Kerry had to do with this I really dont know.

But a few things really stood out. First, several people screamed at us to "Get a life!" What? To me, a bunch of teenagers spending their friday night showing their support for their family members and fellow young Americans instead of wasting time at a football game fills my heart with joy. I am so proud of those kids and I was proud to be there.

Second, one guy, who was stopped at the light in front of us rolls down his wondow. (We are a mix of whites, arabs, asians, and blacks.) With his 5-year -old looking daughter in the seat next to him (criminal negligence anyway if you ask me) he screams at us, "Go back to your countries you trash!" Then another guy does somthing similar saying "You filthy liberals, get out of this country you dont belong here!" I wish they had been joking. Morons.

Then, the very worst thing of the night happens. A man in his car swerves across 2 lanes of RUSH HOUR traffic, slams on the breaks, screeches to a stop in front of us, puts his emergency blinker on, and climbs out of the car. He crosses in front of his car and steps up onto the curb screaming incoherently about us "hippies" in a VERY threatening stance. So as the responsible sponsor of this shindig I decide to break my own rule and stop ignoring him. I could not ignore the things he was literaly screaming into my 17 year old 5'-2" arab female friends face. I wont even repeat the words here. I step in between them and calmly tell the guy to please get back in his car because he is blocking traffic. The guy wheels on me like he is gonna SLAP me, and when he sees I am half again his size and half his age, and can tell by my stance that I am not fooling around, he catches himself and re-thinks it. Still screaming at us, he gets back into his car muttering something about getting his gun for "these sand *******." At this point I do not really know what to do. I feel kind of responsible for these less-experienced companions of mine, expecialy because they are all kinda looking at me like "what do we do?"

So, I tell the kids that I am not going to leave but if you dont feel safe feel free to go. At this point one of the girls whos older brother *and* stepdad are in Iraq and the girl who just got harassed start crying like hell, but no-one leaves. I kept an eye out, but the guy didnt come back. We finished up the night. Man, I am proud of those kids. We can rest assured that the future of America is in good hands with people like that around. (Sometimes I forget I am just a few years older :p)

But I am still shaken up about this. I mean, I expect some hostility when I am holding a sign that says "drop bush not bombs." But come on. It seems like people in this country are hostile to ANY kind of plitical expression. They do not even read the signs. I swear I could hold up a sign that says "We love kittens!" And people would yell "get a job you hippies, I am voting for Bush!" They dont care what you have to say, they are just pissed that you are saying ANYTHING.

WHO BOOS AT A SIGN THAT SAYS "We love our troops!" with a yellow ribbon painted on it!?!!??!

:fire: :cuss: :banghead:
 
We live in America. Your opinions do not get you harassed and threatened in America. Or so we are told.

Well, that would be nice, but it never has been true and never will be. It's unfortunate that you couldn't hold your little demonstration in peace, but considering how adversarial people on both parties are, it was naive not to expect it.

I think it's now worse in America than it might be otherwise because of the two-party system.
 
It burns me up, too. But it's not behavior exclusive to those with conservative viewpoints. There are plenty of cases where conservative protestors have been harassed or assaulted by those with liberal views.
 
I expected some people to yell or boo. But some people just go over the top threatening bodily harm and reverting to racial slurs.

I have never been to a "liberal" protest where violence or the threat thereof, or extreme hostility was apparent.

Granted, I have never been to a massive big-city protest. But I suspect most of those incidents are caused by either:

The police starting it. I know of one time for sure that this happened. It was a few years ago at a NAFTA protest in Austin. My friend was there and he said that about 300 people were standing legaly in a park when a cop "accidentaly" (may or may not be true; doesnt matter) fired a bean bag round at someone. The protesters yelled at them and someone threw the bean bag round back towards the cops. They shot more bean bags, several people ended up arrested.

Or, simple frustration.
"You have to stay in the designated area."
"You mean all 100,000 of us? We cant fit."
"Tough luck, hippie."
 
Maybe you missed all the news articles about protestors plotting and conspiring to do harm to Republican delegates. It happens on both sides, you're delusional if you can't see it.
 
OK the fact that you think the guy with his kid in the front seat is "criminal" says a lot, was she unbelted or do you think it should be illegal for kids to ride up front in general? Well you do admit to being liberal after all.

It's a shame that those with differing opinions couldn't express them in a more civil manner, but as long as no one was physically assaulted than all those people were within their rights, with the exception of broken traffic laws. If anyone, 17-year-old girl or not, is going to participate in such an event at such an emotionally intense time, and is going to advocate an idea as blatantly foolish as pulling our troops out of Iraq and leaving the Iraqi people high and dry, they'd better expect to encounter some pretty emotional opposition. Racial slurs are never called for, but again are protected speech. The guy who "mumbled" something about a gun was still in the clear, so long as he did not directly threaten anyone.

As for parents who fear that somebody is going to drive by such a protest and start shooting, when nothing of that kind has happened, they are being foolish.
 
but as long as no one was physically assaulted than all those people were within their rights

I'm sorry, but that's inaccurate. Based off of the description Malice gave, they were verbally assaulted. The response they received was totally unacceptable and should not be defended.
 
Malice

Kudos to you and your friends for standing up and expressing your viewpoints in a peacefull fashion.

Scorn on those who expressed a contrary opinion in a hostile and abusive manner. THEIR behaivior is a disgrace to those who've fought, suffered and died to protect and preserve the Liberties we enjoy today (those that remain). The sully all their fellows (including you and me) with their display of intolerance and hate.

You did good Malice.

Yes, there are people in this country who seem to have a problem with people expressing a viewpoint contrary to their own. I'm used to seeing it from 'liberals' since I'm rather close to 'The People's Republic of Boulder', but I do run into it from time to time among my classical conservative friends as well. I don't like it or tolerate it from either group. Stangers get ignored, friends get called to the carpet for it.

About the chap who stopped traffic and ranted at you guys, then made comments about getting his gun to deal with the 'sand *******'. I would have snagged his licsense plate and reported the threat to the police. IMAO that kind of behiavor should NEVER be tolerated. Emotions runs high, things get said, but threating violence is simply unacceptable.

Again, you and your friends did good.
 
Kudos to you and your group for voicing your opinions.

Two things (well a lot more, but I'll keep it short) to remember;

1. A voice that is completely unified speaks loudly. A voice with a message not so clear to people, especially the uneducated will provoke unwanted or unanticipated responses.

2. The First Amendment means nothing without the power of the Second Amendment.
 
amazing how many people say the SMAE EXACT THING so early in the morning:cool:
 
Wait a minute here. "We love our troops" "bring them home!" "We support our troops, not the war!." signs?

The problem is that you think people can be easily duped. More American citizens are behind the action in Iraq than you think. Don't be in denial. Remember its an all volunteer force. Many service members don't join for money. I know because I was one of them.

To tell people that you are for the troops but against the war isn't saying much. Our troops are waging the war so if you are against the war you are against them. They are fighting it for their country and all of them have sworn an oath. They aren't children who've been drafted.

Furthermore what happens is that you give the enemies of our nation who our troops are now battling more resolve to keep up the fight. How does that make it ok? This is the same reason that many veterans hate John Kerry. I can't blame them.
 
Malice wrote:

I have never been to a "liberal" protest where violence or the threat thereof, or extreme hostility was apparent.

That's because the majority of the people (liberal or conservative) can control themselves and not resort to violence or hostility. However, there are people who represent each side of the spectrum, and everything in between, who cannot control themselves.

And when it's the people who do this who are left-of-center, it's not always the police (or whoever) who starts it. That's the excuse, but it's just not true.

The Black Bloc comes to mind.
 
"We live in America. Your opinions do not get you harassed and threatened in America. Or so we are told."

:confused: :confused:
I don't know who told you that, but they were living in a fantasy world.
In this country were are supposed to be free to express our opinions, but I am not aware of anything that says that those who disagree are going to give you a standing O.
For that matter it sounds to me like the passing motorists expressed their opinion. That is all that happened. Nothing else. Don't like the way they did it ? The words they used ? Well, they didn't like yours either. And, you didn't even call them names like morons to their face, but you did express that opinion here.
 
444

There is a differance between stated one's disagreement with another's opion, EVEN WHEN DONE WITH A DEGREE OF INTENSITY, and

GETTING YOU YOUR FACE MAKING THREATS OF KICKING YOUR SORRY HIPPY ***

SIGarmed: Please show me the Declaration of War against Afghanistan and Iraq that congress issued.

Saddam's regiem in Iraq was a boil too long left unlanced, and one of our own making too boot. IMAO the coalition of should have kept rolling into Bahgdad and removed Saddam and his ilk the first time, and we betrayed the Iraqi people when our .gov turned its back on them in 1991, and said nothing. Our own rules of government state quite clearly the steps to be taken for this nation to wage war. 'Course, its been quite a while since that document has been given much thought by our .gov. :fire:

Afghanistan was a failing of the whole world 'community', but if the United States of America is gonna be cop to the freaking planet, we should at least be true to ourselves.
 
First, the guy was an ass clown. Don't get me wrong on that. No excuse for his behavior.

That said, a subtle little thing...
We live in America. Your opinions do not get you harassed and threatened in America. Or so we are told.

The GOVERNMENT is not allowed to harass or threaten you for exercising free speech. But other private citizens have a right to free speech, even if they happen to disagree with your view point. Especially if they disagree. Someone on THR once said something to the effect of "We don't have the First Amendment so we can say nice things." We have the First Amendment to protect us when we say things people don't want to hear. Arguably, that idiot was exercising HIS free speech. His physical demeanor and the manner in which he expressed himself were reprehensible, which is why we have assault laws on the books. I disagree with you politically, but I would have been quite happy to see you give the guy the beating he so richly deserved. But don't confuse one idiot for a political climate of repression.
 
Malice,
Isn't it refreshing to live in a country where you and your friends can express your/their opinions freely, peacefully with only minimal verbal conflict involved?

Why should out troops be serving in a country, with some dying, some being maimed for life; in a country where doing the same thing you and your friends did, as little as three years ago would have found said opinionated individuals being locked up, maybe tortured or imprisoned, maybe put to death... all because they wanted to speak their mind? I ask you, why should any man or woman stand up for another who won't do it for themselves? Riddle me this Batman, are we Americans so sure of ourselves and this thing called Liberty that we should allow our leaders to send our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, Moms and Dads to allow other cultures to be given the mere chance to speak their mind or be killed for it? I guess our current administration felt it was the right time, the right place, the right cause.

Being old enough to remember Doves vs. Hawks back in the 60's and early 70's, atrocities being committed by both sides of the conflict our nation found itself in, watching as the leaders even argued about the shape of the negotiations table, or self-imposed rules of warfare on our side, while the other fought so fiercely following the old maxim "All's fair in Love or War" as they brought their own style of freedom to a nation divided...
Some things never change, some things never will.

Many strong, brave, scared men (and women) gave their all in years gone by so that you and I could savor the right to express our opinions freely, without real fear of punishment... Support them and their memory as well.

I'm glad to know that you stood ready to come between your friends and potential violence... it speaks well of your upbringing, of you. Imagine yourself in uniform somewhere in a land where the locals, strangers to you, didn't have you there to interject... or did.

Hmmm...
 
FYI someone yelling at you is NOT assault. You can yell and shout at each other as much as you like, it's part of the freedom of speach. The same right that allows you to stand on a street corner gives people the right to make fun of you and yell at you.

Now, the person who stepped out of their car went a bit too far. But, even their actions didnt come anywhere near constituting assault. Nor did they directly threaten you. In other words its just as legal for that person to get out of their car and yell at you as it for you to be standing outside of your car waving a sign.

I think there is a saying regarding heat and fire that applies quite well here.
 
Well i'm a soldier....................

I'm in South Korea right now and have alot of freind in Iraq. I'm pretty sure i will be going to Iraq sometime in the next 3 years.:evil:

If you want to have a vigail or protest, that your choice.

But i will tell you, i can't stand this protest CRAP!!!!!!:banghead: :fire: :fire: :fire:
 
Life's tough Malice. Get a grip.

You crowd the, otherwise functional, sidewalks, and scream wrongdoings, standing with a group of juveniles who've never worked a day in their life, protesting a war the mass media says is about oil, waving banners that we should run from a war because its tough.

Gee I wonder why no one respects/listens to kids?:rolleyes:

Why not whine about the terrorists! WHAT A CRAZY IDEA!

Or maybe if you're actually serious about wanting whats best for our troops, picking up a rifle and heading off to the middle east. Talk is cheap, and obviously so is most protesters time.

The usual SLAM DUNK is when I ask protesters if they have a job, LIKE EVERY OTHER USEFUL HUMAN BEING.

Yeah I've seen the *peaceful* protests in san francisco first person. Its only a matter of time before people reach maximum capacity for listening to these wastes of life.
 
Sorry Malice, but Sleepnosis is right ~ you asked for it.

Now, if you really want an eye opening experience, go to a predominantly liberal/Democratic area (one where you're not known) and stand on a street corner with a "Bush/Cheney" poster or a pro-war sign. You'll endure far worse than a few shouted insults, that I'll wager.
 
"There is a differance between stated one's disagreement with another's opion, EVEN WHEN DONE WITH A DEGREE OF INTENSITY, and GETTING YOU YOUR FACE MAKING THREATS OF KICKING YOUR SORRY HIPPY ***"

Explain to me, how it is different ? Because he resorted to name calling ?


I agree with the irony: Let's protest our troops who are securing the freedom to protest for other people who would have been executed for protesting prior to our invasion. Yeah, protest the bad guys: The United States. Don't worry about protesting the brutal regime of Saddam Hussein, or Al Quida. Don't protest terrorism in general: protest the guys that are trying to stop it.
 
Wow... Very heady topic, and really good responses...

I am somewhat curious about the fact that you did not expect conflict at a demonstration of views, especially as diametrically split as American views are today.

I think the screaming guy was completely out of line. Only one step from a knuckle dragger, IMO.

I agree with others here; protest AlQueda, Bin Laden, Saddam, and Islamofacism, not that our volunteer military is getting killed in a conflict with Islamofascists. :fire:

The reason groups of terrorists exist on the planet is the toleration of views in the modern world. Terrorism in itself is a result of liberal civilization, where this sort of thing is allowed to exist.

That is not to say that a world without terrorism would be a wonderful place. Communist Russia had very few acts of terrorism against them...

No, we have a long conflict ahead of us and it is not going to be pretty. The terrorists are offering a "them or us" scenario? Then we must take the conflict to them; I will vote for "us" everytime over "them"...

"Welcome to the modern world. Speak your piece, but be ready to duck" - DDog
 
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