This is why I own guns...

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I prosecuted child-protection cases for several years. A kid gets beaten purple, and the investigators take abuse for not catching the problem sooner. Step in like this, and the investigators take abuse for stepping in at all.

I'll be the first to admit that some of these investigators overstep their bounds. I recall a fight I had with one investigator about whether it was abusive to allow a ten year old to go target shooting. Imagine the look on the investigator's face when I picked up the phone and called an attorney friend/RKBA advocate and made the referral for the case while she was sitting in my office.
 
Blog spot by the familiy in this. http://prayforkatie.blogspot.com/
I told them they needed a search warrant and they said the court order was enough. They wouldn't wait any longer and forced their way into my house and completely searched it and meanwhile CPS took pictures of everything.
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Good thing I don't have children. Try this dren in my home, and the CPS thugs would be leaking their bodily fluids all over the front porch. :fire:
 
Ok... I'm neither a doctor nor a lawyer. But, if the facts are as presented, I'd have to say social services made a mistake here. Meaning: if the child's cancer IS in remission, then the doctors should've stood down.
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Even if the kid's cancer is NOT in remssion, the doctors and the courts should stand down.

There are NO guaranteed cures for cancer. As a very old saying goes, "The only thing we know for sure about this life is that nobody gets out alive." I have a friend who is a retired oncologist. He retired from medical practice at least in part because he got tired of dealing with idiot doctors who try to fool people into accepting expensive, painful, disfiguring treatments even though they (the doctors) know damned well that the chances of those treatments working are less than 25%

The decision of how to treat an ill child should be made by the parents. Sometimes it's better for all involved to accept that not everyone survives cancer, and to die peacefully rather than undergo horrendous treatment protocols ... and then die anyway.

She wasn't a child, but my cousin faced this decision several years ago. She had a brain tumour, and because of the location in relation to the spinal chord & central nervous system much of it was inoperable. The doctors wanted her to take radiation and chemotherapy. She declined. Her parents supported her in her decision and allowed her to die with peace and dignity.

Don't get me wrong ... I love children, and if a CURE is a probability I think an operation or radiation or chemo is appropriate. But I also support a family'rs right to decide for themselves what is right for them. And I become incensed when doctors and courts insert themselves into matters that are none of their concern.

I believe that when a doctor or a hospital decides to go to court seeking permission to override a parent's instructions on how to care for a child, two criteria should be met:

(1) The doctor and/or hospital making the request must agree to assume ALL costs of treatment. Why should parents be forced to pay for something they don't want?

(2) The court should ask the doctor or hospital if they are able to GUARANTEE -- with 100% certainty -- that (a) the treatment they advocate WILL save the child's life, AND (b) that without said treatment, the child absolutely WILL die. (Not "might" die or "could" die, but "will" die.)

Unless those criteria can be satisfied, the doctors and hospitals should shut up.

And if a doctor or hospital is willing to make such a 100% guarantee that the treatment they advocate will save the child, and the child subsequently receives the treatment and dies, they doctor and/or hospital should be convicted of at least fraud and perjury, and perhaps with manslaughter.

Maybe then they'll stop trying to play God.
 
This story scares the crap out of me.

Notice it isn't in a socialist, 'nanny state' state like Mass or Illinois...but in TEXAS!?

***?

I am right there with the original poster, this is exactly what 'high capacity magazines' and 'armor penetrating' ammunition are for. Come into my home to mess with my kid and you're going to have a fight.
 
Notice it isn't in a socialist, 'nanny state' state like Mass or Illinois...but in TEXAS!?
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If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck....it's probably a duck.
 
I reposted this above (it'll probably be merged or deleted soon enough). In all medical treatments, the patient has the RIGHT to refuse ANY treatment. The parents, being the child's legal guardians, have the RIGHT to make any and all medical decisions on her behalf. I think their decision is completely wrong as Hodgkins Limphoma is usually survivable if treated and almost universally fatal if left untreated. But, the government has no right to do what they did in this situation and I agree with the above poster who said the CPS people would be leaving with bullet holes.

Also note that they didn't just take the girl away. They took the couple's other three children AND arrested and charged the woman for obstruction. She's out on $50,000 bail and can't see her child on her birthday (which is today iirc).
 
IF YOU KNOW OF A CHILDREN'S ONCOLOGIST THAT IS VERY LIBERAL IN TREATMENT METHODS AND USES ALTERNATIVE METHODS PLEASE CONTACT US AT ONCE.
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Says it all, methinks. I feel sorry for the family for having to put up with the Texas government (shame that it could happen there). Hope this all turns out okay.
 
One of the major biological imperatives in all organisms is the protection of their young. Animals are at their most vicious when there's babies at stake. Try messing around with an Alligator nest if you don't think this is true.

It's no different with humans.
 
Man, this is messed up.

If they had tried this on me, I'd have probably treated it like a kidnapping. IE tried to run away (had parents and grandparents phone numbers memorized), kicked, bitten, and god forbid, gotten ahold of a knife. :uhoh:

I was an independant sort at that age, and my parent's reaction was to commit damage control. IE they taught me Evade & Escape. Even had an incident about that age with some guys offering me a 'ride' in a dirty white van. Didn't like the looks of them at all. It wasn't until I was an adult that I learned from my parents that a little girl my age had disappeared, and the last sighting was around a dirty white van...
 
There isnt nearly enough of anything in that article for my taste. I'm going to reserve judgement. This is either a case of woefull misuse of government authority, or a case of parents who are willing to sacrifice their children for an ideal. Both of these happen enough that i wouldnt be suprised either way.
 
CPS probably talked to the doctor, who ordered CPS to take the kid.

I remember as a city cop a mother gave birth to a child at home, which was where their other children were born, but this time there had been a complication and they called an ambulance.

We arrive with the ambulance. Mother is fine, baby is fine, so we are about to leave. The ambulance calls one of the docs at the hospital who orders the ambulance crew to bring the baby to the hospital.

The ambulance crew tells us what the doctor says, and we ask them if the child is in need of immediate medical attention, which they say no.

The kid stays with mom and if they want to go to the hospital they can, but you cannot force them to go.

Needless to say, the doctor is all up in arms over what the police are telling him but too bad...we are not going to allow the ambulance to take the child without the consent of the parents. Doc is pissed, but we had two words for the doc,

"POUND SAND".
 
What concerns me, though, is do you as a parent have a right to deny treatment to your child, knowing that it will probably kill them? The kid has no ability to go get treatment on their own, if they disagree with their parents ideals.

What I would also like to know, is how she came to this conclusion:
"I think they should treat her for what her body calls for and not standard protocol. Nobody will look at that," she said. "Not every cancer is the same. Nobody understands that. Her body is not standard, and her cancer is not standard."
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Is she a medical doctor? Did another one tell her this?

And I sure don't think a 12 year old girl could come to this conclusion on her own:
"I don't need radiation treatment. And nobody asked me what I wanted. It's my body," she said.
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Is it enought for CPS to take the kid away? Dunno. Looks like they made the right choice, now that the news has been released that she IS NOT in remission. But, I am probably going to have to go with yeager on this one.
 
Step out of line and "The Man" come and take you away ...

This is why I laugh out loud whenever I hear someone say "Law abiding citizens have nothing to worry about."

Any of us could suddenly become a criminal overnight.
 
I ran across a news squib somewhere today that said she is NOT in remission.

I went through the colon cancer deal through the latter half of 2003. I never at all felt bad; I'd not lost any weight. Had I gone by the reasoning of, "I feel good!", I'd be dead.

I went through some 28 radiation "burns". All I got from that was a sunburn--and not all that bad. ("'Scuse me, ma'am, are you SURE it's not supposed to tickle?" :D )

What's being violated is the parents' constitutional right to be dumber'n hammered dirt. If the parents have their way, and if the doctors are correct, this twelve-year-old is dead. She just doesn't know it, yet.

Art
 
To make decisions about the care of one's own child is a basic human right.
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Having access to health care regardless of the idiocy of your parents is also a basic human right. When two rights are at odds things get complicated.
 
One of the stories I saw said that the child seemed to be in remission when she was taken away and that the parents wanted a second opinion. The more I think about this story, the more I'm unsure as to what I think. But, nothing I've read justifies taking the people's other 3 kids away.

For the people who think this is absolutely justified, would you say the same thing if the child belonged to a religion that didn't allow such treatments?
 
Well all I know is that there are two differing views here. One side on this board thinks that the children are the ward of their parents. The other believe the children are the ward of the state. This is the legal issue at stake here.

As for remission or not, all I know is this; I know people who haven't been to the doctor in years. Me included. Then I know many who have gone and are dead. And if they haven't died they are on various life support systems like Darth Vader, or on all sorts of meds. And can no longer function. Let me put it bluntly, they exist, but they have no life to speak of. I have decided a long time ago if I have (insert medical problem here) I'm generally not going to the doctor. I might go to get a diagnosis, but I'll treat it myself thank you. What does it matter anyway, we all have to die. Even you Art, though it is nice to have you around. But even you have to admit, you are no spring chicken anymore, I'm sure you can probably feel death's cold hand reaching for your throat now and again.

You brought something to mind with your story. I have some friends who had a child born with osteogenesis imperfecta. The doctors were under the delusion THEY were keeping that child alive. That's problem number one. When you think you are keeping a person alive you are a very arrogant person. The doctors gave him mere hours to live. What they point blank told the parents was there was no way to save the child, so we'll just pull the life support plug and you can hold him in your arms while he dies. Scan forward nearly two years later, the child was still alive after numerous medical and legal fights. The doctors are embarrassed the kids is still alive. And due to THEIR mistake the child dies. So there you go, a case in stark contrast to this one. The parents fighting for medical treatment, and doctors trying to deny it.

I asked a doctor friend once how many accidental deaths there were in the medical system. He said they can't be counted. It goes unreported. What does go reported though is somewhere between 80,000 and 150,000 wrongful deaths due to misdiagnosed problems, wrong prescription, or outright negligence. I haven't seen the stats lately, but I believe there have only been about 25,000 homocides the past few years? That means you are many more times likely to die by the hand of your doctor, than you are to die by murder. By that logic the libs should be putting a five day waiting period on doctors. And trying to ban high capacity hospitals :D

Anyway, I'd rather not discuss the medical establishment, after all we could get into the abortion subject next, but that's a pretty hot topic. I'd rather not let this thread fall into "locked" status. But I see it heading there next if we continue down this medical path.

Rather I would hear your arguments as to why you believe the state should be able to butt into the lives of family when they feel like it. BTW: Where do you see it's the constitutional right of an individual to have medical treatment? Life liberty and pursuit of property? Obviously you know my take in this incident from the thread title. I have more of my own thoughts on this, but I'll wait to hear from you first.

Excuse me now, I just got up and have to take my Prozium...
 
Supposedly the cancer is not in remmision. The gubmint may have dodged a bullet there. Who is going to deside the course of treatment? The gubmint of course. Again the feds have applied the Randy Weaver dept of family enforcement for the good of the children. By the way, these same people, have the right to withdraw treatment to your child. Just went through this with a woman in Texas. The child wasn't worth the try, so they let it go. I'm not sure, but I think they Schiavo'ed it. Im pretty sure the fact fact it was a poor black child had absolutly nothing to do with it.
kid
 
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