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This worries me guys...

Discussion in 'Legal' started by thefitzvh, Jul 7, 2004.

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  1. thefitzvh

    thefitzvh Member

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    Guys, this worries me a bit.

    A THR user with 7 posts showed interest in my XD for sale, and then I found out he was 17. He asked if I could sell it to his dad, I said yeah, but it still has to go through an FFL. Then this convo ensued.

    yourstupid202: can you sell it to my dad
    TheFitzVH: I suppose so, but it still has to go through an FFL dealer
    yourstupid202: I'm on the phone with the guy and he says you can break it down a little and ship it as parts directly to me
    TheFitzVH: haha. No way. That's a felony, my man.
    TheFitzVH: sorry. I'll find another buyer
    yourstupid202: I wasn't aware of that, sorry
    yourstupid202: well good luck sellin it anyway


    Given the post count, I think it's a setup. THoughts?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2004
  2. boofus

    boofus Guest

    You did right. The guy is either ATF agent smucktelli or a criminal trying to score a gun. Going through a FFL is the best way to cover your ass.
     
  3. Fly320s

    Fly320s Member

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    I doubt it's a setup. I think that the batmen over at BATFE have bigger fish to fry.

    Probably just a 17y.o. kid looking for a semi-easy way to get a gun.
     
  4. geegee

    geegee Member

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    Or possibly an antigunner, who would love nothing more than to post their illegal gun buy all over the web, then show the info to someone over at "60 Liberal Minutes" :barf:

    You did the right thing. Here ya go : attaboy! :D
     
  5. jimbo

    jimbo Member

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    Couldn't he be a 17-year-old criminal trying to get a gun?:D
     
  6. thefitzvh

    thefitzvh Member

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    Whatever it is, it's lame... and I still need to sell this gun :-D
     
  7. buy guns

    buy guns Member

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    a fake criminal at the most. a real one wouldnt need the internet.
     
  8. Ian

    Ian Member

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    FWIW, gun laws aren't terribly well known among most people. Straw purchase laws are particularly goofy, and I can certainly see a totally well-meaning and well-intentioned 17-year-old thinking the "ship as parts" thing might be legal.

    Heck, one of the gun shops near hadn't even heard of C&R licenses when my dad went in to buy an old C&R gun they had. They insisted on doing a background check, when all they needed to do was take a copy of his 03 FFL and log it out to him.

    There are totally well-meaning 17-year-olds out there trying to get pistols, you know. I got my first one at 17 or 18.
     
  9. Standing Wolf

    Standing Wolf Member in memoriam

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    No, no! It couldn't possibly be loyal, courageous, stalwart Agent Schmuckatelli! Say it's not so!
     
  10. Spot77

    Spot77 Member

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    I agree with Ian.....heck I bought my first handgun when I was 20....A friend of mine asked me if I wanted it, I said yes, and it became mine.

    Of course this was back in 1990, so I have no idea what the law was back then. If somebody would've told me all the hoops that needed to be jumped through I would've been SHOCKED.

    I wasn't into guns back then, and I didn't care about gun laws. My friend said it was legal for me to buy, so I believed him. I didn't keep it very long. I needed beer money more than I needed a gun (how STUPID was I?)

    Kids are gullible; that's why so many of them do exactly what the Left wants them to do.
     
  11. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    It doesn't help that laws get change so often and courts change rulings as well.
    People also make matters worse by repeating what they heard instead of checking.
    An example here, I had people tell me that here in IL not only you can't have ammo in a case with the gun(s), you can't even have both gun and ammo in the same location in the car. So what is a guy with a pickup suppose to do?

    -Bill
     
  12. ctdonath

    ctdonath Member

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    Obviously kid looking for an easy/cool buy. I don't see someone running a "sting" with the name "yourstupid"...but that's a typical handle for a teen.
     
  13. halvey

    halvey Member

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    I bet it was an anti.

    Couldn't you ship as parts though as long as the frame went through a FFL?
     
  14. CannibalCrowley

    CannibalCrowley Member

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    I can't believe everyone is missing the obvious, it was a 17 year old criminal who is also an anti who wanted to complete the sale as a stepping stone to become a BATFE agent. But in reality he's probably just a kid who wants a gun and his parent(s) don't want him to have one.

    Does anyone else find it ironic that "yourstupid202" is either saying he is stupid and belongs to someone else, or he's stupid because he doesn't know the difference between your and you're? (pet peeve)
     
  15. shermacman

    shermacman Member

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    Stay away. You know and he knows that it is a felony to break down a gun and ship it across state lines. Most states it is a felony for someone under 21 to own a pistol so you would be up to felony number three if you sold it to the 'straw man' even if it is his father. (Which you have absolutely no way to prove.) You may need to sell the gun, but just one call to a lawyer to help you through this will vaporize the money!
     
  16. Don Gwinn

    Don Gwinn Moderator Emeritus

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    You might be surprised what an internet sting looks like. Probably not many of you outside Illinois remember this, but back when Jim Ryan was Attorney General of Illinois and was running for Governor, he decided to establish his anti-gun bona fides. (He was a Republican, but this is Chicago, and he apparently thought the best way to beat Rod Blagojevich was to agree with him on gun control.) Anyway, his office started contacting people with rifles for sale. They concentrated on "assault weapons" even though those weapons are perfectly legal, hoping to to trick people into doing something illegal in the sale. The most common trick was to assure the seller that it was legal to "part ouf" the gun and ship all the parts directly across state lines, with no FFL involved. That, of course, is a federal offense.

    In the end it didn't work out very well for Ryan. He was forced to give up all his arrests when it was found that he clearly used entrapment (the transcripts are below) and he really stepped on the Feds' toes at the same time. His entrapment got a guy released who had been targeted by the Feds for selling illegal machine guns and the resulting mess tipped him off.


    The moral of the story is this: Just like fitz, you must NEVER take legal advice from a stranger! It might be a misguided kid, or it might be the Federal government. You just don't know, and your government (well, mine anyway) has proven that it doesn't mind entrapping people who honestly want to follow the law. Whoever they can convict, they will. How hard you tried to follow the law is irrelevant to them.

    Halvey, you could ship parts and send the receiver through an FFL, but what would that gain you over shipping the whole gun? The frame is still going to be treated as a whole gun, with all the red tape and costs that implies, and you'll have another package to pay for and keep track of while that's going on. There is NO advantage to parting out an entire gun.

    Now, if your buddy has a serviceable receiver with rusted out parts, and you've got a whole gun, then yeah, by all means, strip everything off and send it. But don't send that receiver unless it's going to an FFL. Especially not at the urging of a stranger over the internet.

    Man, those transcripts still turn my stomach. :barf:
     
  17. 2nd Amendment

    2nd Amendment member

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    Maybe the "your" is correct? He's calling your 202 stupid. Now since I don't know what a 202 is I am not sure I have one and thus I can't ascertain how stupid it may be but, well, I have many other stupid things so...
     
  18. whm1974

    whm1974 Member

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    if it looks like a sting, then it probly is...

    -Bill Meadows
     
  19. mikemck

    mikemck Member

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    Post counts have nothing to do with anything at all. There is plenty of ignorance from ppl with post counts over 1,000 just like there is from ppl with less.

    It's more than a bit dramatic to come to the conclusion that you dodged a government bullet, given what you posted here. Further, if the username is LONE, why did you feel the need to be offensive and change it to stupid?

    And no, it's not a felony to part out a gun and ship it over state lines to an FFL, shermacman. Are you some G-Man looking to spread disinformation and make it harder for honest American citizens to buy/sell/trade firearms?

    Honestly, I can't imagine what it must be like for some of you guys, apparently paranoid thinking the government is out to get you at every turn and trick you into breaking the law.
     
  20. shermacman

    shermacman Member

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    Mikemck:
    Kind of edgy there, son. I did not say it was illegal to part out a gun and ship it to an FFL. I said that it is illegal to part out a gun and ship it to a person over state lines, just like the situation that the original poster described. Where did you get the idea that I was talking about shipping it to an FFL? Your other comments are equally unusual.

    Your question about why the poster, thefitzvh, changed the name to yourstupid202 is strange. He did no such thing, there is the Highroad handle, but yourstupid202 is an IM handle, same person, different handle; nothing offensive, no malice, other than your comment.

    Then to go off and describe the other comments made by people in this thread as paranoid, and to ask if I am some sort of G-man...well, you are just plain way off base.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2004
  21. mikemck

    mikemck Member

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    I read exactly what you wrote, which was "Stay away. You know and he knows that it is a felony to break down a gun and ship it across state lines"

    It read like you were saying it was a felony no matter what, and I pointed out that it was not.
    You also obviously assume that the other guy also knew it was a felony, which you could not possibly know.
    It is just as likely that the local FFL or whoever he was on the phone with told him it was legal, or even that he honestly misunderstood what someone told him.



    Strange? He never mentioned it was an IM handle and his handle was the same, so to me it looked like, based on the rest of his post, he changed it himself in his post. Nothing particularly "strange" or "furtive" about my question. It looked he did, so I asked him why. Same as I would ask anyone else I thought had done something like that.



    You personally know the people who said it was probably a "sting" and other such comments, and know they are not in fact paranoid, and had good reason to jump to such conclusions, based on what was reported?
    And I am of course therefore way off base?
    My comment about you being a G-Man was sarcastic, and I said it because of the bizarre conclusions that you and others jumped to about the 17 year old.
    Of course, you are here to refute my rediculous comments, and that always helps.

    I think quite a few of you need a bit more real excitement in your lives if something simple like a 17 year old being up front and saying his dad is willing to buy him a gun and all the rest of it gets blown up into some BATF sting operation. To me, that's just bizarre, and I honestly can't understand the thinking.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 9, 2004
  22. thefitzvh

    thefitzvh Member

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    I cut & pasted the convo. Also, if you looked at the convo, you'd see that he PLAINLY wasn't talking about shipping it to an FFL

    Jeez. Someone needs to relax.

    and I"M Jumping to conclusions? Investigate before asking why i felt the need to be "offensive"
     
  23. mikemck

    mikemck Member

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    And I never said otherwise. I clearly pointed out that it is just as likely that he did not know it was illegal from talking to whoever he was on the phone with, or that he misunderstood what they were telling him. Get it?

    Also, it does not say "IM convo" anywhere in it, and could just as easily have been cut & pasted from a PM convo...duh. Being that your whole premise behind posting was being worried that he was out to screw you or get you put in jail, it did not seem extremely unlikely that you would give him a name with 'stupid' in it, after you foiled his evil plans.



    I am perfectly relaxed. It is ironic though, coming from the guy who started this thread and how worried you were about a 17 year old talking to you about selling your gun to his dad. It looks like you are the one who needs to relax.

    When you hear hoof beats, think of horses....
     
  24. mikemck

    mikemck Member

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    Oh yes, and this here...

    I was investigating, hence the question about why you did it, here where you could answer for yourself.

    If I was like you and some others who posted here, I would be asking my wife or some other person who could not possibly know why you did it, and end up just assuming you were some internet weenie trying desperately to feel smarter than some 17 year old, and failing miserably.

    Get it? Again?
     
  25. Frohickey

    Frohickey Member

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    Can't you sell it back to the Tupperwear lady? :neener:
     
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