Thoughts on CCW rotation.

[lemaymiami]

Mil... don't worry about that "dim warehouse".... Pray you're never in a dispute in a restaurant -then find more than one of them waiting for you in a parking lot as you leave or get in a fender bender with a carload of kids - all armed.... Nothing dramatic about any of this except that unlike many parts of the country south Florida has more than it's share of macho types with big egos, well armed, and coming from parts of the world where any dispute is a personal matter and not one that's going to be resolved with a fist fight... When you also consider that they're quite likely to be poorly educated, struggle with English, and are still juveniles... There just might be something to be concerned about, and I was years ago.

The good news for me at least is that in the last 20 years in retirement I've managed to avoid that sort of stuff mostly (but not entirely - no, I won't be telling any war stories....). You're probably right that most are only concerned with the unlikely possibility of a street robbery or having someone try to enter their house when they're home..... Me, I'd like to get through the rest of my life without any confrontations at all.... particularly since I don't carry a firearm on my person since I retired.

 

[bikerdoc]

Jr, I think your thinking and practice is sound.

Like lemay I have been retired from the job for 25 yrs. Unlike Lemay I carry every day. Different sizes depending on dress and destination, but same operating platform.
I hope none of us ever has to use a weapon in SD, and with good situational awareness we wont, but if we ever have to, I hope we all posess the mind set and skill set to prevail.

 

[DaisyCutter]

I CCW mostly a Glock 30s. On the days I need something lighter, I use a Kahr PM9. The Kahr is my go-to camelback stuffer for mountain bike and dirt bike rides.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I've had lots of different pistols over the years. Similar to you, I have consolidated down to two makes that have the same manual of arms for those that serve self defense purposes. Even more so with shotguns from a consolidation perspective. Rifles, well, I just can't part with the variety.

Having said that, I think having a general familiarity with various platforms is a good plan that can be accomplished without having to own them (borrow a friends, rent one, etc).

 

[Tirod]

A carrier should continue to use the same trigger/safety type they are familiar with. Changing back and forth from one with thumb safety to one with no safety is where the idea "I might forget to swipe off the safety" comes from.

Those who do switch back and forth report catching themselves swiping the gun with no safety. It's really up to the shooter to practice and use the best habits overall.

He also needs to be confident the type gun is safe in his use. Having been issued and carried guns with safeties most of my adult life I wasn't real happy with a carry gun that had none at all - just a long heavy trigger pull wasn't "safe" to me. I sold off those guns and picked up one with a thumb operated safety to restore my concept of familiarity and security. If you constantly worry about something getting tangled in the trigger - which it shouldn't - but hear stories of cheap holsters, jacket strings, etc causing ND's - safeties seem quite reasonable. And with the muscle memory ingrained, knowing you have to flip it off to make a shoot decision is another step in your mental checklist that there is a real need.

That may not be appropriate for others with different priorities, but the idea you could switch back and forth from one style to the other with perfect ability and confidence is likely more braggadocio than reality for most shooters. They stick to one or the other when it boils down to understanding how it will most likely be used - walking into a lethal encounter with no warning in the middle of a long stretch of little danger. Like, a movie theater or department store. Who knew?

That's where you don't need to be uncomfortable about whether you will swipe off the safety or not - just to focus on one feature. There are others, like having magazines that don't drop free, or not having a last round hold open, etc.

Which goes to selecting a second gun as a warmer weather carry option or backup - choosing something completely different doesn't stack the odds in your favor, especially if circumstances force you to access it first. Being prone on the floor and knowing that movement around the waist might bring a gunshot your way means that other gun needs to be the same operating method even more.

It's been discussed before piecemeal, the point being it's much less which is "better," and a lot more "which do you DO better?" then sticking to it across the board.

 

[usfan]

Lots of good advice here, & the emphasis is on being familiar, practiced, competent, & confident in your weapon, whatever it is.

I think some people enjoy the process.. trying out new firearms, calibers, platforms, holsters, etc.. but if they are familiar with them, why not? Others, especially it seems those who have carried for a living, are more pragmatic about it. They just want a simple tool that they are familiar with & that does the job.

And just as there is no 'right' answer as to which gun/platform/holster/safety is best, neither is there one for this question. Be familiar? Yes. Practice? Absolutely. But whether you have just one, or a handful you rotate, it is a tool for a job, & there are many ways to do it.

The last few years i was partial to the lcr in 38spl. ..easy to carry. compact. But only 5 rounds. I had tried some autos over the years, but the single stacks did not hold appreciably any more than the revolver, & were less comfortable, to me. Then i got a double stack compact in 9mm, & carry it most of the time. But if i am going somewhere in the inner city, or where a risk is higher, i'll pack a double stack 45, even though it is bigger. If i'm taking the wife's dog for a walk, i slip a naa 22 in my pocket. These are all quite different, with different actions, but i shoot them all frequently, as well as dozens of others.

I've used tools all my life. it is important to know what tool you are using, & how it functions. I don't want to try driving screws with a hammer.. it can be done, but it is not the best tool for the job. Neither will my cordless be effective driving nails. But the only emphasis that makes sense is practice & familiarity. Sure, you better know what you have on your person, but that isn't hard. Practice & familiarity & confidence. Those are the key issues. Variety is ok, as long as you have the others. Some like one size fits all. Others like options depending on the circumstances. I'm glad we can do whatever we want.

 

[BSA1]

i just picked my cheapest reliable gun

I see this comment often on conceal carry forums and I don't understand the reasoning for it.

What the posters is really saying is "I think my life is worth saving but I don't want to use too good of gun in doing so." The poster often goes on to talk about how he shopped around to find the cheapest gun he could, that he carries it so he doesn't have to worry about the finish getting worn and the gun getting dings in it from use and he tested with a few boxes or few hundred rounds of ammunition.

I put a higher value of my life than these posters put on theirs. If I am in a situation where my life is in danger I want one of the best guns I own to protect me. What is the purpose of having a high quality reliable handgun that is street proven by LEO's, soldiers and other armed citizens in the safe? Something your widow or family will sell after your death to cover funeral and living expenses or just to get it out of the house?

My main EDC has a factory msrp of around $1,000. Add buying extra magazines and good quality holsters and my investment is more larger. I know that most likely it's resale from being carried is less than a mint one in the box. Let's say it loses 40% of it's value which is $400.00. So for the concern of losing $400.00 after carrying the gun for long period (years) IF I decide to sell or trade the gun in I settled for cheaper firearm that doesn't have the same quality and street proven record.

 

[ljnowell]

I carry based upon what I'm wearing, what the weather is, and where I'm going.

Believe it or not, even though some genius that writes for a magazine says different, you can be capable with more than one firearm. It won't get you killed.

 

[usfan]

I see this comment often on conceal carry forums and I don't understand the reasoning for it.

What the posters is really saying is "I think my life is worth saving but I don't want to use too good of gun in doing so." The poster often goes on to talk about how he shopped around to find the cheapest gun he could, that he carries it so he doesn't have to worry about the finish getting worn and the gun getting dings in it from use and he tested with a few boxes or few hundred rounds of ammunition.

I put a higher value of my life than these posters put on theirs. If I am in a situation where my life is in danger I want one of the best guns I own to protect me. What is the purpose of having a high quality reliable handgun that is street proven by LEO's, soldiers and other armed citizens in the safe? Something your widow or family will sell after your death to cover funeral and living expenses or just to get it out of the house?

My main EDC has a factory msrp of around $1,000. Add buying extra magazines and good quality holsters and my investment is more larger. I know that most likely it's resale from being carried is less than a mint one in the box. Let's say it loses 40% of it's value which is $400.00. So for the concern of losing $400.00 after carrying the gun for long period (years) IF I decide to sell or trade the gun in I settled for cheaper firearm that doesn't have the same quality and street proven record.

To be fair, he did say 'reliable' as a factor. You are right, that you don't want to trust your life to something that might not work. But there is not always a cost/reliability correlation. I have some very inexpensive firearms that are VERY reliable, & i trust them as much as the high dollar ones. I'm just as confident in a ~$200 sccy 11+1 9mm as a glock, beretta, or s&w. I would pick it over a $1000 s&w performance center revolver, mostly because of size & weight. I've also got some cheap guns that i would NOT trust. I still have them, but don't shoot them much, & never carry them.

I would rather carry a cheaper glock 30s over a high dollar 1911. Both are reliable, both shoot 45acp, but there can be $1000+ difference between them. The cheaper glock is just as reliable. I am completely confident in it, vs a custom 1911.

Of course, the old saying, 'you get what you pay for', is still in effect. But you wouldn't buy a lamborghini to have a 'cheap, reliable' car. There are plenty of good ford, chevy, & toyotas in the firearms world that are inexpensive yet reliable. I think that was all the poster was saying.

 

[BSA1]

Actually the sccy is a inexpensive gun that I would not choose for self-defense. I have heard and talked to owners that have problems with them. Manufacturing a $200 gun requires cutting corners somewhere especially when it comes to parts breakage. Yours seems to be the exception.

Glocks are a popular choice and it is not really inexpensive. Used ones in my parts start at $400.00. Add better sights such as night sights, extra mags and a couple of good holsters and you are hitting the $600.00 mark. In addition consider that Glocks have been tested with 10's, no 100's of thousands of rounds.

SIG is another manufacturer of top of the line semi-auto's that are combat and street proven. It is very easy to spend a $1,000 for a new one.

I have a couple of 1911's that I have had customized for a lot of shooting such as IDPA. However while they are proven performers they are not my choice for reasons of their weight and size.

 

[lemaymiami]

One other factor to remember about defensive weapons.... If you have the choice and have a few different sidearms to choose from -the less expensive (if fully reliable and you're very familiar with it) might be the better pick for a weapon that might actually get used.... When I was a cop, if I used a weapon and it needed to go into the justice system pending resolution... my department would be issuing a new one to replace it. Any privately owned weapon going into the system as the result of a shooting may not be coming back to you for some years (if ever...). When it does return you can be certain that it will have the case number engraved on it prominently (and crudely since property room guys aren't exactly gunsmiths... I was one of them many years ago as a young sergeant in the early eighties...) and will not have been maintained at all. That means that any organic evidence (blood, etc.) will have been in contact with that weapon for all the years it was out of your possession.

I won't even go into the hoops to go through and other obstacles that will be in the way of you recovering your property after a shooting -no matter how clear cut and justified your actions might have been (and if court cases -particularly civil cases are involved, you may get pretty long in the tooth before the "system" ever releases it in the first place...). No, that's not what should happen but frequently the above problems will be present in any defensive shooting....

As a result your finest custom piece might not be the best choice for daily carry with all its scuffs, scratches, and other problems that don't have anything to do with what will certainly happen if you actually use it to defend yourself.....

 

[DaisyCutter]

Any privately owned weapon going into the system as the result of a shooting may not be coming back to you for some years (if ever...). When it does return you can be certain that it will have the case number engraved on it prominently (and crudely since property room guys aren't exactly gunsmiths...

What sort of Flintstones PD engraves the case number on a firearm?

Evidence goes in a box or a bag. Evidence is handled as little as possible. The box/bag is labeled with a case number, item number, date, and officer info. Firearms have an ATF form the must also be filled out.

Only in imaginary Kangaroo court would anyone engrave a case number into an item of evidence. Do cops at this agency still put their finger in a bag of cocaine and taste it, as a form of field testing?

 

[ljnowell]

What sort of Flintstones PD engraves the case number on a firearm?



Evidence goes in a box or a bag. Evidence is handled as little as possible. The box/bag is labeled with a case number, item number, date, and officer info. Firearms have an ATF form the must also be filled out.



Only in imaginary Kangaroo court would anyone engrave a case number into an item of evidence. Do cops at this agency still put their finger in a bag of cocaine and taste it, as a form of field testing?

Snark and insults aside, he is right, many places still do engrave them.

 

[lemaymiami]

Please remember that I've been retired for 20 years now and my time handling evidence was 35 years ago.... To me, it was just yesterday.

 

[Jim K]

Regardless of how evidence is handled, once a gun is used in a shooting, it becomes evidence and may not be well treated.

I have long and often tried to tell people not to carry an expensive gun or one with sentimental value. If you use it, you can lose it. Some people just don't understand that. One lunatic informed me that if he shot someone and the police tried to take his (big name custom 1911) he would shoot the police! Maybe not a good idea.

Another of my soap boxes involves the "gun of the day" or "if this is Tuesday, I must have a SIG". In spite of assurances by advocates of such a system that they can know instantly by "muscle memory" exactly what gun they have and exactly how to use it, I would be afraid of dying while trying to take the safety off a Glock, thinking it was a 1911.

Jim

 

[tarosean]

I would be afraid of dying while trying to take the safety off a Glock, thinking it was a 1911.

really???? if swiping a imaginary thumb safety off results in your death. You were dead anyhow.

personally... If my gun ends up in evidence, engraved or not. It was worth every penny.

 

[BSA1]

Jim K,

If you are directing your comment at me I very well undertand that I am going to lose my gun as evidence possibly for a long time, maybe forever...

Carefully considering the expense of firearms,

Carefully considering the cost of customizing a firearm,

Carefully considering that waiting period for a big name gunsmith can be years,

Carefully considering that it may not be possible to replace it with one exactly the same,

My attitude is I don't care and willingly accept the permanent lose of a favorite firearm. The value of favorite firearm pales in the face of a crippling injuries, a lifetime of medical problems and bills or death all because I settled for firearm solely based on it's cost and value.

I believe in buying the best quality firearm I can afford at the time. With young children, diapers, school loans, car repairs, babysitter, etc. the best gun I can afford might be a H&R single shot 12 ga. 25 years later after the kids are out of the house and I have a good paying job a tuned SIG M-11 might be my primary EDC.

I am confident that given enough time I can replace a gun. Bill Jordan said it best; "There are no second place winners."

 

[herrwalther]

Actually the sccy is a inexpensive gun that I would not choose for self-defense. I have heard and talked to owners that have problems with them. Manufacturing a $200 gun requires cutting corners somewhere especially when it comes to parts breakage. Yours seems to be the exception.

This is news to me. I know many police officers who buy them and put them in the glove boxes of their patrol and civilian cars. I know for one officer who put 4000 rounds through one before it even saw a cleaning brush.

 

[jrdolall]

I am also of the opinion that I really am not concerned about losing my gun as evidence. I am also not going to make a purchase decision because the gun MIGHT be stolen. I carry the gun that I feel confident in and that fits MY requirements. Whether that gun cost $200 or $2500 is not something I consider.

 

[BSA1]

herrwalther,

Hey if it works for you who am I to say don't?

I am looking to customize a Polish P-64 whose main use is a truck gun although I will say it is my second or third line of defense.

 

[1911 guy]

All the pistols i own are 1911 types. However, someone who carries the "gun of the month" isn't really wrong, as long as they have a common manual of arms and similar grip angle and trigger pull. It's when you go from revolvers to Glocks to Sigs to 1911's and so on that people run into trouble.

While most autoloaders can be run using a common manual of arms, most manufacturers have different grip angle, trigger reach, trigger pull and placement of controls. Just as an example, i had to qualify on an M9 even though I actually carried a 1911. Very different handguns. I could shoot both well, but the M9 took more concentration from me. Under stress, performance would have surely suffered.

 

[ljnowell]

All the pistols i own are 1911 types. However, someone who carries the "gun of the month" isn't really wrong, as long as they have a common manual of arms and similar grip angle and trigger pull. It's when you go from revolvers to Glocks to Sigs to 1911's and so on that people run into trouble.



While most autoloaders can be run using a common manual of arms, most manufacturers have different grip angle, trigger reach, trigger pull and placement of controls. Just as an example, i had to qualify on an M9 even though I actually carried a 1911. Very different handguns. I could shoot both well, but the M9 took more concentration from me. Under stress, performance would have surely suffered.

My thoughts are this, if you are a guy that chooses to carry only one platform, I can understand that. It's very logical. There are numerous points that I could make explaining why that's a sound philosophy.

At the same time, if someone puts the time into becoming familiar with, and shooting different guns then I don't see issue with carrying different firearms. I will carry a Ruger LC9 most days, but there are times I'm in a hurry and I stuff a j-frame in my pocket and a speedloader in the other. I'm also known to carry a g21 or 1911 at times depending on where I'm going.

There is no wrong answer, as long as it works for YOU.

 

[1911 guy]

Agreed. However, the reality is that most people, including many on this board, don't spend enough time to even be proficient with one. I've seen polls and comments, it's staggering how many don't shoot past seven yards, don't carry reloads, don't practice reloads, don't practice malfunction drills, have never been in any sort of competitive shooting sport, have never taken a class, etc. You get my point. Standing on the square range with one hand in your pocket is not preparing you for an armed encounter. Hence, the repetition of "you'll forget to take the safety off!"

 

[ljnowell]

Agreed. However, the reality is that most people, including many on this board, don't spend enough time to even be proficient with one. I've seen polls and comments, it's staggering how many don't shoot past seven yards, don't carry reloads, don't practice reloads, don't practice malfunction drills, have never been in any sort of competitive shooting sport, have never taken a class, etc. You get my point. Standing on the square range with one hand in your pocket is not preparing you for an armed encounter. Hence, the repetition of "you'll forget to take the safety off!"

I can agree with what you are saying. Many people do not practice at all. I know many conceal carriers here in IL that have had their permit for over a year and haven't shot since they qualified. They carry everyday and think they are ready for anything. Scary and sad at the same time.

 

[guyfromohio]

After several thousand $$ of attorney fees, the potential loss of your freedom, countless sleepless nights, trials, interrogations, etc... the loss of your Ed Brown will seem insignificant compared to the relief of "it's finally over". Carry what you are comfortable and competent with.